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View Poll Results: This kid born September 30, 1979 is...
older than me. 10 62.50%
younger than me. 6 37.50%
the same age as me. 0 0%
me. 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-06-2018, 01:42 PM   #51
Udvarnoky
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Kasdan's cardinal qualification in my eyes is the fact that he isn't David Koepp. I think the more critical question right now though is not who replaced Koepp, but why Koepp needed replacing. The motive could be as simple as Koepp no longer being available or as substantial as a change in direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
No, but the simplest conclusion (Solo bombed, other LF projects are being reevaluated because of this) is usually the most likely. I have been wanting a fifth Indy since 2008. I don't want one anymore. What, where Harrison is reduced to a cameo role of maybe 25 mins screentime, or not in it at all, or you have KK nonsense in it? No thanks.

I think you might be confusing "simplest" with "what harmonizes best with my paranoia."

Last edited by Udvarnoky : 07-06-2018 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:31 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Two can play at this game, my friend.
As one can discern from a simple Google search, his father, the scriptwriter for Raiders of the Lost Ark, also wrote these....Would you judge Lawrence's whole career based off these two films? Diversification of screenplays isn't a bad thing at all, it's something many scriptwriters engage in.

While I understand your intent, it's misguided and inaccurate. You pull two films from 15+ years post Empire and Raiders to make your point.

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Originally Posted by Bird on a hot seat
...To criticize Jonathan for it and not anyone else seems a tad hypocritical.

I literally showed that Kasdan-the-Lessor only has 3 screenplays we can judge. Two rom/com's and a 'polish-and-retool' of his fathers adventure film.

Udvarnoky or the well remembered Dr. Gonzo may remember better a conversation from a 1/2 a decade ago about what happens when screenwriters start to take over from previous authors, how character, motivation and intent fall apart. It was either in the Nathanson; Boam; Koepp; or Darabont screenplay discussions. Too many cooks, spoil the brew. And these were accomplished craftsmen.

JK is just too young and inexperienced for me to put faith in a 2nd retool screenplay assignment.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:00 PM   #53
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Yeah, I am pretty certain now that whatever we get will make CS look like a cinematic masterpiece in comparison. We will be pining for the days of Le Beef.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Very white land mammal
While I understand your intent, it's misguided and inaccurate. You pull two films from 15+ years post Empire and Raiders to make your point.



I literally showed that Kasdan-the-Lesser only has 3 screenplays we can judge. Two rom/com's and a 'polish-and-retool' of his fathers adventure film.

Udvarnoky or the well remembered Dr. Gonzo may remember better a conversation from a 1/2 a decade ago about what happens when screenwriters start to take over from previous authors, how character, motivation and intent fall apart. It was either in the Nathanson; Boam; Koepp; or Darabont screenplay discussions. Too many cooks, spoil the brew. And these were accomplished craftsmen.

JK is just too young and inexperienced for me to put faith in a 2nd retool screenplay assignment.
The Bird on a Hot Seat has returned!
(On a side note, that's probably better than my username at the moment).
Here's the problem. Until we know what JK's extent in retooling the script for Indy 5 is, it's not really safe to assume anything. At this point, it's possible that he's just editing certain scenes rather than the script as a whole.
In all honesty, I haven't seen any of JK's romcoms, and based on the looks of them I'm sure that they're absolutely awful, so I'll give you that. But I have seen Solo, and my opinion of the film was that Kasdan was able to craft a relatively exciting (if all too safe) space Western. You may disagree with my intent of picking out LK's own cinematic travesties, but my point still stands.
In the end, I think Kasdan could benefit (rather than face doom) from the "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario. I'm sure that he and Koepp are at least in minimal contact, seeing as how Koepp had to leave not due to a falling out like Darabont but rather a contractual obligation to finish another screenplay, and I think the finished project will have little to no cognitive dissonance in it's screenplay.
If I'm wrong, get ready to see me eat some crow.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:28 PM   #55
Raiders112390
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All I want is one last Harrison movie, set in the 60s, where he is the lead or at least takes up over 60% of the screentime, gets in a good chase or gunfight. Is that too much to ask? I'm fine with them turning Indy into a genderqueer/pansexual post op transsexual named Indiana Joan after that. Just gimme me a good 60s set Harrison outing first.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:09 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Just gimme me a good 60s set Harrison outing
Be careful what you wish for...

Harrison Ford stars in: Indiana Jones, In and Out.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:23 AM   #57
Raiders112390
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
Be careful what you wish for...

Harrison Ford stars in: Indiana Jones, In and Out.

Oh I'm fully aware of the risks, but the idea is too tempting. Do you really want Indy to live out his days being henpecked by Marion and dealing with Mutt? Give the old man one last ride before he's dropped off in the Asylum.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:47 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiders112390
Oh I'm fully aware of the risks, but the idea is too tempting. Do you really want Indy to live out his days being henpecked by Marion and dealing with Mutt? Give the old man one last ride before he's dropped off in the Asylum.
Get ready....

We thought we knew all about Dr. Jones - but a former student, now a successful actor, is about to drop a bombshell, just as the ageing adventurer, now in his sixties, is ready to leave on an exotic trip to recover a priceless artifact with his young assistant Ben Dover...
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:51 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
The Bird on a Hot Seat has returned!
(On a side note, that's probably better than my username at the moment).
Here's the problem. Until we know what JK's extent in retooling the script for Indy 5 is, it's not really safe to assume anything. At this point, it's possible that he's just editing certain scenes rather than the script as a whole.

I agree. There's no way of knowing dad's thoughts/progress.

Quote:
In all honesty, I haven't seen any of JK's romcoms, and based on the looks of them I'm sure that they're absolutely awful, so I'll give you that.


Nor have I, but it doesn't look promising. Relationship hijinks at best.

Quote:
But I have seen Solo, and my opinion of the film was that Kasdan was able to craft a relatively exciting (if all too safe) space Western.

What it lacked, it lacked out of standing in the shadow of better films, more than what it may have faulted on it's own. I try to remember that. Nevertheless, the concept to humanize droid rights should have been fought, and there should have been a clearer intent from Crimson Dawn (which reminded me too much of (Asian Dawn in Die Hard).

Quote:
In the end, I think Kasdan could benefit (rather than face doom) from the "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario. I'm sure that he and Koepp are at least in minimal contact, seeing as how Koepp had to leave not due to a falling out like Darabont but rather a contractual obligation to finish another screenplay, and I think the finished project will have little to no cognitive dissonance in it's screenplay.

My time in college taught me there is value in writer collaboration. You're not wrong that a budding writer could benefit from better storytellers. The odds, though aren't in his favor.

Quote:
If I'm wrong, get ready to see me eat some crow.

You're post earned my respect. I put you to some heat and you tempered well. If you have to eat crow, I won't be serving it.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:24 PM   #60
TheFirebird1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I agree. There's no way of knowing dad's thoughts/progress.



Nor have I, but it doesn't look promising. Relationship hijinks at best.



What it lacked, it lacked out of standing in the shadow of better films, more than what it may have faulted on it's own. I try to remember that. Nevertheless, the concept to humanize droid rights should have been fought, and there should have been a clearer intent from Crimson Dawn (which reminded me too much of (Asian Dawn in Die Hard).



My time in college taught me there is value in writer collaboration. You're not wrong that a budding writer could benefit from better storytellers. The odds, though aren't in his favor.



You're post earned my respect. I put you to some heat and you tempered well. If you have to eat crow, I won't be serving it.
Pale Horse,
First off, thank you. Your words mean a lot to me, and I'm glad that I've been able to contribute at least a little to this forum.
Secondly, I completely agree with your observations on Solo's faults (and by extension Jon Kasdan's). Even though I think Kasdan wrote a good script, there were definitely numerous pratfalls and issues in the story that took away from appreciating it completely. Like you mentioned, the villains weren't exactly fleshed out on either a personal level (like Dryden Vos) or on a more general level, like Crimson Dawn, which assumed the role of a substandard "vast criminal organization", one that wasn't described in detail whatsoever.
In the end, our opinions on Kasdan's contribution to the script might also somewhat stem from our views on Indy 5 in its current state. I'm choosing to take a more positive viewpoint, but I fully understand the negative counterpoints. Kasdan will have a lot to prove to us, especially viewing his resume at the moment.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:25 AM   #61
Udvarnoky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Udvarnoky or the well remembered Dr. Gonzo may remember better a conversation from a 1/2 a decade ago about what happens when screenwriters start to take over from previous authors, how character, motivation and intent fall apart. It was either in the Nathanson; Boam; Koepp; or Darabont screenplay discussions. Too many cooks, spoil the brew. And these were accomplished craftsmen.

There is a pretty big gulf between six screenwriters over nineteen years and two screenwriters over two years. In addition, Darabont managed to come up with a script that was fairly cohesive and not at all of the "patchwork quilt" quality that characterizes Koepp's contribution, so there is at least some evidence that the skill of the screenwriter is a factor here.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:02 PM   #62
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I think it's really hard to judge Kasdan's writing strengths/weaknesses from three films, especially when we know he wasn't the only writer on Solo.

And having done two romcoms doesn't mean that a writer can't write a good adventure movie - they just mightn't have had the chance until now.

Crystal Skull's script was a hodgepodge of ideas, and didn't shower Koepp in glory. But that being said, he's the guy that also wrote Jurassic Park, Mission: Impossible, Panic Room and Secret Window - all films I love.

My hope for Indy V had been that Koepp was writing his OWN script this time, rather than hastily rejigging the work of those who had come before. Now, I don't know what I hope... Stoppard's changes to Boam's draft of Crusade were excellent, but we have no suggestion that Kasdan is that skilled (yet!)
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:46 AM   #63
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Frankly, I think Koepp butchered Jurassic Park. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think that if it weren't for the novelty of how well they pulled off the dinosaur effects, that film would be totally forgettable, and by no means the classic that people consider it today.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:36 PM   #64
Raiders112390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambonius
Frankly, I think Koepp butchered Jurassic Park. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think that if it weren't for the novelty of how well they pulled off the dinosaur effects, that film would be totally forgettable, and by no means the classic that people consider it today.



As a fan of both the novel and the film, I think the movie is better. The novel is a good read, but has an entirely different tone and feel, and if the movie was closer to the novel, it wouldn't have been as big of a hit.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Lambonius
Frankly, I think Koepp butchered Jurassic Park. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think that if it weren't for the novelty of how well they pulled off the dinosaur effects, that film would be totally forgettable, and by no means the classic that people consider it today.

I don't know about that. Yes, the advances in visual effects was a big part of the spectacle but the movie also worked because it was simply a well directed thriller and it was Spielberg at the top of his game. I think the combination of Speilberg and dinosaurs in a summer blockbuster was a bigger factor than the CGI they used.

Oddly enough, Koepp was brought in to rewrite the script after Spielberg was dissatisfied with drafts with previous writers which included Michael Crichton himself. Despite the straightforward plot, the movie does work well on a character and thematic level and Koepp deserves some credit for that. I found this video makes a good case as to why the movie still holds up well more than 20 years later.

https://vimeo.com/165693758?ref=fb-share&1
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:14 AM   #66
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John Williams is what makes Jurassic Park special.

I can only wonder how much better the film would have been had Harrison not turned it down...and not that Sam Neill did a bad job or anything...
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:08 AM   #67
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I'm glad Harrison turned it down. Sam Neil aced that part. Having Harrison there would've been distracting. The fact that most of the cast were not very well known faces helped a lot imo.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:31 AM   #68
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John Williams is what makes Jurassic Park special.


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