Indy IV: "For the fans"

On the Comic Con satellite feed Spielberg made a point of mentioning, a couple times, that he's making Indy IV with the audience in mind. I actually have some reservations about that..

I mean, there are some audience expectations that should be fulfilled--precedents that have been set in the first three films. We should probably see a big mass of phobia-inspiring creatures again (snakes, bugs, rats--my prediction is piranhas for Indy IV). There should be an exciting opening action scene. And chase scenes, and fighting, supernatural elements, etc. If Indy almost loses his hat but saves it in the nick of time, we won't be surprised.

Not to say Indy movies follow a strict formula, just that those things are in the first three, and if we're to buy this as an Indy film we need to see them again, in some form.

There are things I DON'T want to see in a "for the fans" Indy movie. Excessive geeky in-jokes, for one. The exchange between Indy and Elsa in Last Crusade, about the Ark image in the catacombs, was fine. Quick, dry, funny. A couple of similar references in Indy IV would be fine. But let's hope we don't see another virtuoso swordsman, or Marion wielding a frying pan, or other gags borrowed and repeated "with a twist," to appeal to the fans.

I just hope they retain the spirit and essential elements of the first three, while making a film that stands on its own feet, without constantly reminding us of the previous films. And after making a challenging movie like "Munich" I hope Spielberg isn't thinking now, "OK, we can relax our intellectual standards and make a dumb-fun popcorn flick." 'Cause the other Indys had a lot more depth than that, even though they were pure entertainment on the surface.

I think he said it more to play to the crowd watching the live feed from San Diego. Don't read too much into it. Besides, I'd argue that Steven and Harrison are the two biggest Indy fans in the world. Steven and Harrison, throughout both of their lives, have expressed a lot of fondness for the character.

commontone said:

[...]And after making a challenging movie like "Munich" I hope Spielberg isn't thinking now, "OK, we can relax our intellectual standards and make a dumb-fun popcorn flick." 'Cause the other Indys had a lot more depth than that, even though they were pure entertainment on the surface.

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I hear you . . . you could have posted your thoughts here but I'm glad someone started a thread on this.

Listening to Spielberg talking about how he is making this film 'for the fans' reminded me of how he distanced himself from Temple of Doom.

Watch the tape and note how Spielberg uses the word 'passionately' to describe his need to make the movies he's made for himself over the past eleven years. Notably, he uses no similar descriptor to describe how he feels about Indy IV. The first adjective (I think) he uses is 'good.' What does that tell you? In other words, he just works here . . . and he's making the film that all us sheep want and deserve.

He claims he's making this film for the fans. Well, I'm a pretty passionate fan -- and I'm not feeling the love right now based on what I've seen out the production thus far.

I expect the Dawsons on this board to light up and defend him -- but watch the Comic-Con tape -- and compare it to Spielberg footage from other film's that he's proud off. Spielberg is very articulate and passionate about projects that he cares about. He loves to give his audience insights into the story -- those aspects that matter to him (notably, as I've posted elsewhere, other Directors at Comic-con have done a better job of talking about their projects). What have we gotten thus far out of Indy IV pre-press? A relentless re-hashing of old images and characters -- from the first photo of Indy in gear to this last stage shot (with only the Shia novelty angle thrown in) -- and not much more.

hehe, I kinda feel sorry for Spielberg and co trying to make a film like this in the internet age. We have one brief appearance by the cast and director and within 24 hours it's spun and interpreted a 1001 different ways.

I think Spielberg has already mentioned his desire to keep to keep this film tightly under wraps, and he is acutely aware that in this day and age it is all to easy for a film to be completely revealed, pre-empted, and spoilt well before its release. So maybe his reluctance to talk about the film in any detail is born out of this? To be honest, after the New Haven shoot, I was expecting the whole story to be blown right open before now. It's a minor miracle that we still have so much to speculate about.

Much has been made about Spielberg making this for the fans. I think this is a positive statement though. It would have been easy not to make this film after the long, protracted scripting limbo. If their motivation was to make a quick buck I think they would have done so long ago, when Harrison was younger and more of a box office attraction. Instead, they waited a long 18 years until they had something that they were all satisfied with. Remember, rumours of this film being made stem back to over 10 years ago. That's a long time for fans of the franchise to be kept waiting.

So when Spielberg says he's making this for the fans, I think he means it in the best possible way. He knows the burden of expectation on this film, he knows how long the fans have been kept waiting, and he's going to do his best to reward all that patient waiting with a film that the fans will be happy with. After all, this is a big, crowd pleasing, Hollywood blockbuster of a film. This isn't about furthering himself as a director, this is about giving something back. Does this indicate some kind of complacency, that he's somehow not fully involved or committed to the film? I doubt that. I think there a few directors out there more conscientious and concerned about his audience than Spielberg. Does this mean they're going to make some formulaic pastiche of previous Indy movies? Well we'll see. As much as some people want a completely fresh film, there are certain things people have come to expect from an Indy flick, and I guess the trick is to find that balance between welcome familiarity and new territory.

For now, I'm going to remain a positive Indy zealot. It's likely this will be the last Indy film we'll ever see, so enjoy the speculation while it lasts. We'll have plenty of time to bemoan the film should it turn out to be a disappointment. Good or bad, I'm gonna be a little saddened when this roller coaster comes to an end.

Look at it from an artists perception.

Spielberg already knows he can make an Indiana Jones movie. He has done it before. He meant there were other more challenging things for him to try the past decade or so that he was doing to see if he could do it. He then said he is making this for the fans, with the fans in mind. That was him trying to play to the comic-con audience and saying, "I'm doing my best to give you what I know your expecting." He didn't want to, obviously, reveal anything much about it... not even the title. BUT...

I mean he let us see Harrison in full Indy gear as with the rest of the cast AND he unveiled Marion being in it. Come on.

I think everyone involved has their heart is in the right place. I just hope they have their heads too! (yes I know I said that exact line in another post)

Yeah, I agree. I guess after 18 years, there's gonna be that doubt in everyone?s mind 'have they still got it?' But about revealing Harrison in costume and Marion, I suppose they?re throwing us a bone to keep us happy.

The truth about Marions return would inevitably come out in the long run. You just cant keep that kind of thing secret anymore, and regardless, she'd be in the credits anyway. Drip feeding us these little morsels keeps the hype machine ticking over quite nicely.

Joe Brody said:

I hear you . . . you could have posted your thoughts here but I'm glad someone started a thread on this.

Listening to Spielberg talking about how he is making this film 'for the fans' reminded me of how he distanced himself from Temple of Doom.

Watch the tape and note how Spielberg uses the word 'passionately' to describe his need to make the movies he's made for himself over the past eleven years. Notably, he uses no similar descriptor to describe how he feels about Indy IV. The first adjective (I think) he uses is 'good.' What does that tell you? In other words, he just works here . . . and he's making the film that all us sheep want and deserve.

He claims he's making this film for the fans. Well, I'm a pretty passionate fan -- and I'm not feeling the love right now based on what I've seen out the production thus far.

I expect the Dawsons on this board to light up and defend him -- but watch the Comic-Con tape -- and compare it to Spielberg footage from other film's that he's proud off. Spielberg is very articulate and passionate about projects that he cares about. He loves to give his audience insights into the story -- those aspects that matter to him (notably, as I've posted elsewhere, other Directors at Comic-con have done a better job of talking about their projects). What have we gotten thus far out of Indy IV pre-press? A relentless re-hashing of old images and characters -- from the first photo of Indy in gear to this last stage shot (with only the Shia novelty angle thrown in) -- and not much more.

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Good god dude. I think you are just trying way too hard to read into something to make the most insightful post in this thread. Don't get all wound up about how many set pictures you have seen, wait for the movie in May, you can see everything then. I don't think they want to give every aspect of the film away 9 months before it is released.

Let's go back to 1981: "Raiders of the Lost Ark." A movie that Spielberg claimed many times since he wanted to do, but also a project where he was "only" the director, and made sure he didn't deviate from the script.

Now, "Last Crusade" feels closer to Spielberg because of the father-son relationship, but he is also just the director and making a fine piece of entertainment. The same with "Indy 4." Spielberg didn't have to make this movie - he could've turned it over to Joe Johnston (Heaven forbid!). No, Spielberg wanted to make this movie because he enjoyed making the other films in the series, and clearly he loves the character. Still, I am sure he is itching for it to be over soon so he can make what he clearly wants to passionately make - "Lincoln."

If you watch the video from comic con doesnt Spielberg mouth the entire title of Indy IV. If you slowed down the video could you not read his lips and crack the title??
Jackson

He never actually mouthed the title he was just flapping his lips.

Joe Brody said:

Watch the tape and note how Spielberg uses the word 'passionately' to describe his need to make the movies he's made for himself over the past eleven years. Notably, he uses no similar descriptor to describe how he feels about Indy IV. The first adjective (I think) he uses is 'good.' What does that tell you? In other words, he just works here . . . and he's making the film that all us sheep want and deserve.

He claims he's making this film for the fans. Well, I'm a pretty passionate fan -- and I'm not feeling the love right now based on what I've seen out the production thus far.

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I just couldn't disagree more with you, but fortunately Chilled_Monkey already said everything I was going to. Definitely love is all around, and it stuns me Joe Brody doesn't feel it at all. You must have been watching the set videos with some kind of cynicism glasses on. After 18 years, wouldn't it be nice to try to be positive about this project finally coming together? If it's a disappointment for us all, then be it. But for the time being, couldn't we just get the most out of this anticipation?

Well, that's just me.

Was it the serious undertow that appealed to Kate Capshaw? We've heard your wife won't let you direct a comedy!
My wife says I'm not funny enough! I was preparing to direct Meet The Parents when she read the script. She said, "You're not directing this movie - give it to a director who does comedy well." She doesn't mind when I have comic moments in my movies, like when Tom Cruise chases his eyeballs towards a drain in Minority Report, but I'm not allowed to do an outright comedy! Still, I produced Meet The Parents and we did very well with it.

So how do you balance your corporate head with your artistic one?
I don't plan my career, you know. I don't think I'll go dark, dark, dark, then light, then dark. I react spontaneously to what falls into my arms, to what is right at the time. I've never made a conscious choice, except maybe for the Indiana Jones sequels and The Lost World. They're the only times I've said, "Okay, I need to make these pictures for the public because they're craving it." Also, with Lost World, I hadn't directed for three years so I wanted to do something I felt secure making. I didn't want to make a serious picture like Schindler's List.

You've noticeably gone for more "dark" than "light" projects in the last few years...
Well, how much more success do I want? I've had enough to last me three more lifetimes. I turned down Harry Potter and I turned down Spider-Man, two movies that I knew would be phenomenally successful, but they offered no challenge to me. It would have been shooting ducks in a barrel, a slam-dunk. I don't need my ego reminded and I don't need to race anybody to make the biggest hit movie anymore. I'm just trying to tell stories that I can keep interested in for the two years it takes to write, direct and edit them.

So why embrace Indy 4? Surely you could knock that out in your sleep?
It's not for money or success. It's for the good times. I've always said that I had the most fun in my life while making those three movies with George [Lucas] and Harrison [Ford].

It's been a fair old wait...
It's a very good story. It's worth living that long to see!

Of course, your fans would also love to see a sequel to ET...
ET was a very personal little picture. My motivation for making it was pure and non-profit based - I didn't think it would be a hit because it was about kids and no films about kids under 18 were doing any business then. I wouldn't make a sequel because it couldn't be superior to the original and I don't want to blemish a perfect picture.

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I'm currently searching for an interview I remember in which he negatively commented on Lost World and called it a mistake to have made that film in order to make the demanding fans happy. I haven't found that one yet but I also thought that this one shows some interesting points to his filmmaking motivations. It's an interview with TOTAL FILM from September 2004.

Dear Steven,

I know that it's probably too late, but... please let "for the fans" not mean "fan service". And, I know you want to have a good time, but... I hear that they had a lot of fun making Ocean's 12. We promise to begrudge you your fun if you promise to make a movie that's really a movie. Amen.

commontone said:

I just hope they retain the spirit and essential elements of the first three, while making a film that stands on its own feet, without constantly reminding us of the previous films.

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David Koepp has already addressed this very issue a few months ago. He made it quite clear that no one involved wanted to make a "fan film" with lots of cutesy in-jokes, and that the film should be able to stand on its own.

He even pointed out that while fans know the original dialogue verbatim, it wouldn't make sense for the characters to remember it 20 years later.

James said:

David Koepp has already addressed this very issue a few months ago. He made it quite clear that no one involved wanted to make a "fan film" with lots of cutesy in-jokes, and that the film should be able to stand on its own.

He even pointed out that while fans know the original dialogue verbatim, it wouldn't make sense for the characters to remember it 20 years later.

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Agreed. If Indy says "It ain't the mileage honey, its the years", I'll be annoyed. Like you said:

1) As if Indy would remember saying that 20 years ago.
2) The film should be a stand-alone film with memorable lines of its own, not cute references to old ones.

James said:

David Koepp has already addressed this very issue a few months ago. He made it quite clear that no one involved wanted to make a "fan film" with lots of cutesy in-jokes, and that the film should be able to stand on its own.

He even pointed out that while fans know the original dialogue verbatim, it wouldn't make sense for the characters to remember it 20 years later.

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Where did he say all that? Just hearing that makes my confidence in this film go up quite a bit. I hope they're all smart enough to know that very basic principal. Something most movies like this would get wrong, but I don't think they will.

No Ticket said:

Where did he say all that? Just hearing that makes my confidence in this film go up quite a bit. I hope they're all smart enough to know that very basic principal. Something most movies like this would get wrong, but I don't think they will.

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In an interview with Daniel Robert Epstein. (May he rest in peace.)

http://www.filmstew.com/showArticle.aspx?ContentID=15358

Well I hope he takes it to another level, or else it is useless.

Indy IV: "For the fans MONEY" is more like it....

ClintonHammond said:

Indy IV: "For the fans MONEY" is more like it....

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Most people want to see another Indiana Jones movie. Regardless of how much anyone might think LC has the perfect ending and everything else (which I think too, btw), everyone has a bit of curiosity as to what a fourth would be like. We all kind of wanted it, whether we did or not. And now it's coming. So making statements like, "It's all about the money," seems pretty dumb. Because they waited around forever, went through many scripts and at one time probably didn't even consider doing it at all. They are doing it for three reasons.

1.) The fun of making it with all their old friends.

2.) The fans want it probably as much as the people who are making it do.

3.) Because we all kind of miss Indiana Jones and his adventures. What fun movies they were.

But I'm not naive. I know that SOME people are only in it for the money. Paramount as a studio, Kenner wants to sell action figures, etc. etc. Some people see it as a way to cash-in big... but I think those involved in actually MAKING it are not as worried about that.

And if I am wrong then I feel sorry for any of them who are truly only in it for money. Because if it were me, it wouldn't be about the money.