I'm not trying to be demanding. I'm not saying that most people watch it wrong. I'm presenting a different point of view, a view that IN MY OPINION, will leave you a happier moviegoer. I'll just leave it there since you guys seem to be digging quite the whole for me to get out of.The Drifter said:
The Haters thread
- Thread starter Leiter91
- Start date
Montana Smith
Active member
Attila the Professor said:
Perfectly put, Prof. Some can skate along on the surface of things quite happily, but I for one like to delve deeper. As I wrote in the book thread today, I like to peel the various layers away to discover what thoughts, intentions or meanings lie beneath. It's the reason I listen to film commentaries for movies that either intrigue or inspire me.
Maybe it's a case of over-analyzing, but you never know what you might find when you do dig down.
The Drifter
New member
Oh, come on now. You're being dramatic. No one is trying to put you in a hole you can't dig out of.
I can see your point of view, as I mostly watch movies without picking them apart. I can see what you're getting at.
But, as Attila said, why even be at this forum if we don't like to pick apart the films every once in awhile? It would be a pretty boring place if no one did that.
Before I found this place, I was a fan of the first three. I just watched them and got lost in the adventure. When I came here, I read so many posts that delved into each of them in areas I never thought of. It gives one a whole new light regarding them.
But, like I said. Some people just are not gonna like Kingdom no matter how much you try to make them.
I can see your point of view, as I mostly watch movies without picking them apart. I can see what you're getting at.
But, as Attila said, why even be at this forum if we don't like to pick apart the films every once in awhile? It would be a pretty boring place if no one did that.
Before I found this place, I was a fan of the first three. I just watched them and got lost in the adventure. When I came here, I read so many posts that delved into each of them in areas I never thought of. It gives one a whole new light regarding them.
But, like I said. Some people just are not gonna like Kingdom no matter how much you try to make them.
The Drifter
New member
JP Jones said:
Uh, I have been reading what you're saying. It all boils down to this - You think people are over analyzing a simple popcorn action film. You are imploring them to just sit back and watch the movie for what it is. Am I right?
kongisking
Active member
I'm gonna try and type this as calmly as I can:
I understand the haters' fury. I can sympathize with the crushing disappointment, the unfathomable bitterness, the soul-smashing depression. I fully admit that KOTCS is, after many viewings, a film with some truly silly bits that can easily make one yell, "Oh, come on!" There are also pacing problems, dialogue issues, and some wasted talent. The cinematography rarely evokes good ol' Dougie, and the CGI is, admittedly, quite crappy.
It took me a long time to develop this philosophy, but I've come to accept the fact that people have a right to be angry at things that waste their time. Probably because I've recently experienced some of the aforementioned 'crushing disappointment' with Pirates 4 and Green Lantern, which I both had been eagerly awaiting... But I have seen people on the Internet that have genuinely enjoyed both films, and this is what I'm getting at:
I don't condemn them for their enjoyment. I've read countless Anti-KOTCSers's posts on such sites like AICN, claiming basically that anyone who dared to even sorta like Crystal Skull can kiss theirs. Such comments infuriate me, not, believe it or not, because they are obviously bashing something I love, but because they are being so selfish and egotistical as to think that people who like the stuff they despise are stupid. Good example: Transformers 2. There are plenty of folks who thought TF2 was fun, and you know what I do when I hear this?
I look them in the eye, and say, "I'm glad you liked it. I wish I could say the same. No hard feelings, buddy."
Look, I don't have delusions that I am somehow superior to all the haters because I like something different. People have different tastes, it's unavoidable. But what I don't put up with or accept is when haters refuse to show my opinion the same respect that I'm trying to give theirs, by looking down on people like me, who thought that KOTCS was wonderful fun warts and all. And I don't think that this post is going to convince anybody, either. I'm just trying to articulate what I wish the Internet was like: a respectable, honorable web where people can have reasonable, unbiased chats.
And yet, I am guilty of doing the very same things I hate! So I admit, I can cross the line too. I just have this single, polite request to all the super-hateful haters of KOTCS out there: please, cut us lovers some slack. Nobody likes to feel guilty about liking something that is popularly hated, and trust me, I know how that feels. So don't treat us like we are somehow 'less' than you guys. Thanks a lot. Have a wonderful day.
I understand the haters' fury. I can sympathize with the crushing disappointment, the unfathomable bitterness, the soul-smashing depression. I fully admit that KOTCS is, after many viewings, a film with some truly silly bits that can easily make one yell, "Oh, come on!" There are also pacing problems, dialogue issues, and some wasted talent. The cinematography rarely evokes good ol' Dougie, and the CGI is, admittedly, quite crappy.
It took me a long time to develop this philosophy, but I've come to accept the fact that people have a right to be angry at things that waste their time. Probably because I've recently experienced some of the aforementioned 'crushing disappointment' with Pirates 4 and Green Lantern, which I both had been eagerly awaiting... But I have seen people on the Internet that have genuinely enjoyed both films, and this is what I'm getting at:
I don't condemn them for their enjoyment. I've read countless Anti-KOTCSers's posts on such sites like AICN, claiming basically that anyone who dared to even sorta like Crystal Skull can kiss theirs. Such comments infuriate me, not, believe it or not, because they are obviously bashing something I love, but because they are being so selfish and egotistical as to think that people who like the stuff they despise are stupid. Good example: Transformers 2. There are plenty of folks who thought TF2 was fun, and you know what I do when I hear this?
I look them in the eye, and say, "I'm glad you liked it. I wish I could say the same. No hard feelings, buddy."
Look, I don't have delusions that I am somehow superior to all the haters because I like something different. People have different tastes, it's unavoidable. But what I don't put up with or accept is when haters refuse to show my opinion the same respect that I'm trying to give theirs, by looking down on people like me, who thought that KOTCS was wonderful fun warts and all. And I don't think that this post is going to convince anybody, either. I'm just trying to articulate what I wish the Internet was like: a respectable, honorable web where people can have reasonable, unbiased chats.
And yet, I am guilty of doing the very same things I hate! So I admit, I can cross the line too. I just have this single, polite request to all the super-hateful haters of KOTCS out there: please, cut us lovers some slack. Nobody likes to feel guilty about liking something that is popularly hated, and trust me, I know how that feels. So don't treat us like we are somehow 'less' than you guys. Thanks a lot. Have a wonderful day.
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
kongisking said:I'm gonna try and type this as calmly as I can:
I understand the haters' fury. I can sympathize with the crushing disappointment, the unfathomable bitterness, the soul-smashing depression. I fully admit that KOTCS is, after many viewings, a film with some truly silly bits that can easily make one yell, "Oh, come on!" There are also pacing problems, dialogue issues, and some wasted talent. The cinematography rarely evokes good ol' Dougie, and the CGI is, admittedly, quite crappy.
It took me a long time to develop this philosophy, but I've come to accept the fact that people have a right to be angry at things that waste their time. Probably because I've recently experienced some of the aforementioned 'crushing disappointment' with Pirates 4 and Green Lantern, which I both had been eagerly awaiting... But I have seen people on the Internet that have genuinely enjoyed both films, and this is what I'm getting at:
I don't condemn them for their enjoyment. I've read countless Anti-KOTCSers's posts on such sites like AICN, claiming basically that anyone who dared to even sorta like Crystal Skull can kiss theirs. Such comments infuriate me, not, believe it or not, because they are obviously bashing something I love, but because they are being so selfish and egotistical as to think that people who like the stuff they despise are stupid. Good example: Transformers 2. There are plenty of folks who thought TF2 was fun, and you know what I do when I hear this?
I look them in the eye, and say, "I'm glad you liked it. I wish I could say the same. No hard feelings, buddy."
Look, I don't have delusions that I am somehow superior to all the haters because I like something different. People have different tastes, it's unavoidable. But what I don't put up with or accept is when haters refuse to show my opinion the same respect that I'm trying to give theirs, by looking down on people like me, who thought that KOTCS was wonderful fun warts and all. And I don't think that this post is going to convince anybody, either. I'm just trying to articulate what I wish the Internet was like: a respectable, honorable web where people can have reasonable, unbiased chats.
And yet, I am guilty of doing the very same things I hate! So I admit, I can cross the line too. I just have this single, polite request to all the super-hateful haters of KOTCS out there: please, cut us lovers some slack. Nobody likes to feel guilty about liking something that is popularly hated, and trust me, I know how that feels. So don't treat us like we are somehow 'less' than you guys. Thanks a lot. Have a wonderful day.
That was a nice read...thanks. Has anyone here really disparaged you for liking it? Who?
It seems the majority here are looking for the things they identify as "Indiana Jones-ish" while pointing out what crosses that sensibility.
I saw it eight times in the theater, the issues didn't detract me from going over and over. People are going to disagree and joke and make fun of you for style and taste they don't understand. So what? Defend yourself!
Sharkey may say your comedic skills suck but Denizen Refugee was the only one I can think of who would belittle you because of Skull...
Indyologist
Well-known member
graz said:I know what you mean (not about Indy because we don't agree on that), but I had the same experience with Star Wars recently. I think the prequels were the start of the rot and I just kinda got disallusioned with the whole franchise. I actually sold my DVD box set of the originals recently because I didn't have any urge to watch them.
I feel the same way. The concept that an Indy movie-- an INDY MOVIE-- could actually be lousy devistated me to the point where my love for the franchise was greatly cooled. Know what I did as soon as I came home from the midnight first showing of KOTCS? I cried. I was that upset. I even followed the advice of some here and went and saw it again, thinking that by lowering my expectations this second time would make some kind of difference. Nope. I'm just not used to the concept of an Indy movie sucking. Indy and suck have never appeared together in my vocabulary or in my mind. Anyways, a few years later I'm getting a little better, trying to get over KOTCS. Wierdly enough it feels like getting over being dumped with all the ugliness that comes with it. I still like Indiana Jones a whole lot, but it's going to take more time-- or a fantastic Indy movie -- to get me completely over the KOTCS blow.
I think this is my first significant post about KOTCS since the movie came out. Thank you for letting me rant and for respecting my post.
kongisking
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Wait, when did he say that?
I was under the impression I was the next The Man...**Somewhere, he's laughing so hard the neighbors are getting annoyed...
Darth Vile
New member
Montana Smith said:
I get where you're coming from, but I'd never think of TOD and TLC having a 'higher level of sophistication'... especially in the 'script and characterization' department (both of those movies re-set the bar pretty low after Raiders).
Wow - that's uber intense. I remember the anticipation of going to see Avatar. Came out thinking 'that was crap', and went and had a beer and forgot about it.Indyologist said:
JP Jones said:
But these boards would be dead if we weren't prepared to over annalyze the movies. That's why we're here aren't we???
Dr.Jonesy
Well-known member
Indyologist said:
Wow....lol...I mean wow...I seriously hope you're joking. If you feel so betrayed and hurt by a fun film franchise popcorn flick that you cried, then seriously...that's just not healthy!
Indyologist said:I even followed the advice of some here and went and saw it again, thinking that by lowering my expectations this second time would make some kind of difference. Nope. I'm just not used to the concept of an Indy movie sucking. Indy and suck have never appeared together in my vocabulary or in my mind. Anyways, a few years later I'm getting a little better, trying to get over KOTCS. Wierdly enough it feels like getting over being dumped with all the ugliness that comes with it. I still like Indiana Jones a whole lot, but it's going to take more time-- or a fantastic Indy movie -- to get me completely over the KOTCS blow.
I think this is my first significant post about KOTCS since the movie came out. Thank you for letting me rant and for respecting my post.
I'm not trying to sound mean...but man this is in the realm of really sad. You're "getting a little better"? Feeling like you're getting over being dumped?? I'm not sure what to say..that's not healthy to feel that way about a movie! I think you need more things to fill out your day..
Let Indyologist have their reaction. Something like Indy was done so well that expectations can be this high. CS was a let down. I was trying to like it when I first saw it, then it grew on me a little bit and then I got more objective and saw through it all. I think an Indy5 should have new, fresh, young talent at the helm, people with the enthusiasm, ambition, energy and even naivete that marked Raiders, except that Kasdan should write the script.
Dr.Jonesy
Well-known member
Mickiana said:
You don't think a reaction that involves tears, years of getting over something and comparing it to lost love isn't at all...pathetic?? I'll let him have it, but I won't say it didn't make me laugh.
Mickiana said:
Compared to ROTLA; TOD, LC and KOTCS are letdowns in my book. Compared to the first one, the others were NOT done so well.
Darth Vile
New member
JP Jones said:I don't come here to over-analyze movies. I like to talk like I'm talking to my friends. That means more "I liked this the best" rather than "That seemed like a hollow experience". You know?
I think it's more about being concsious/aware that we over-analyze - as is the nature of a discussion board. Some of the best discussions I've had here are when there have been heated debates about the minutia of Indiana Jones. But one always has to be aware that we're not an impartial community when discussing the subject matter....
Rocket Surgeon
Guest
The Universal "You" not you specifically...kongisking said:Wait, when did he say that?
*Somewhere, he's laughing so hard the neighbors are getting annoyed...
I think Mutt34-26-32 beat you out as the next The Man...
And that makes it less pathetic to cry and take years to get over a "devastating" experience? Please.Stoo said:Just so you know, Indyologist is a she.
My philosophy is that you can always find some good in nearly any movie. It all depends on how you watch the movie. In Indyologists case. You're not going to like the movie if you f**cking cry because it wasn't as good as you thought it would be. So what, it's not that good (in your opinion), you can either stop watching or just go in with an open mind. Let it go that it won't be your version of perfect and move on.
I've seen many bad movies, but female or not, you are a f**king loser if you get that worked up over a damn movie.
JP Jones said:
You're out of line.
And to take off my moderator cap to say a little more, I increasingly don't understand what it is that you think is worth talking about here. Look, for a lot of the people here, the quality of their Indiana Jones product matters to them, and while for most of us it was easy enough to incorporate our mixed feelings about the fourth film into our general feelings on the series, for others maybe it wasn't. It's not like it's just some thing, out there purely for fun that doesn't deserve any further consideration, either intellectual or emotional. Treat them as a simple diversion if you like, but movies mean something, and I'm still not talking about some elaborate theses about hidden meanings. Maybe it's the work of nostalgia, for an earlier time in history, or art, or just in our own lives - to hark back to when we were younger.
And of course you can always find some good in every movie, but don't you care about the diminishing returns? If it's all about grabbing at whatever fun you can, shouldn't you care about whether the movie you're watching is maximizing your fun for you? Or is at all about managing your own expectations so you can manage to have a good time in the face of something that maybe doesn't deserve it?