Discuss Chapter 12 - Three Times It Drops (DVD chapter by chapter discussion)

Back again! We're so close to the end, that I almost couldn't bring myself to continue.

Chapter 12 - Three Times It Drops
1:29:12 - 1:36:02



(description pulled from the Indiana Jones Wiki)
Realizing that when Oxley said, "Three times it falls" he meant that there were three waterfalls that lead to Lake Sono; everyone panics as the first waterfall approaches. In the end though, they all survive after they plummet through the three progressively higher waterfalls.

The group enters a cavern shaped like a human head with a waterfall sprouting from its eyes (Oxley had said that the temple was found by going "Through eyes I last saw in tears") and they journey through a tunnel with paintings of beings with "elongated craniums". Ox holds up the skull in front a life-sized painting and there is a perfect match. It is read in the pictograms that the Uggha tribe was taught irrigation and agriculture by these beings. After going through a big stone chamber the group encounters some angry natives who chase them out of the cave and into the open. Oxley pulls out the Crystal skull and the savage Uggha back away.

Chapter Index:
Chapter 1 - Nevada, 1957
Chapter 2 - The Warehouse
Chapter 3 - I Like Ike
Chapter 4 - Of Interest to the Bureau
Chapter 5 - Mutt Williams
Chapter 6 - Nazca, Peru
Chapter 7 - Orellana's Resting Place
Chapter 8 - Old Friends and Enemies
Chapter 9 - A Truth Revealed
Chapter 10 - Family Squabble
Chapter 11 - Big Damn Ants



Once again Please no trolling or bashing of the film. The word "sucks" isn't a valid form of explaining why you hate something. I'd like a friendly discussion for those who enjoy the film and watching it on the small screen.

I'm hot and cold on this chapter.

I think three waterfalls was one too many. I like that once they've gone over the first one they think they've made it past the danger, start to catch their breath, and then are suddenly surprised by a second waterfall. That was classic Indiana Jones. To me, the third was overkill.

I thought the giant face with water coming out was very cool looking. I also really dig the scenes in the temple - looking at the paintings, matching up the skull, being followed, etc. Great stuff and some of my favorite scenes in the film.

It's that type of dark, cerebral, creepiness that makes all of the films for me. It's Kingdom's version of the opening scenes of Raiders, the chambers behind their rooms in Temple, and the tunnels under Venice in Crusade. Great stuff.

This was a pretty good scene. The only thing I would've changed is how the Ugha were introduced. It could've used a little explantion how they got into those walls. (secret tunnels?)

The "three times it drops" scene reminded me of the scene in Romancing the Stone where Joan Wilder is trying to steer the car and then it goes over the waterfall.

A great chapter. The waterfalls were pretty funny, especially Indy's reactions. I love how he takes his hat off and holds it close to his chest right before the last one.

I thought this chapter was pretty enjoyable. I agree that three waterfalls was a bit much; however, Indy has always been about larger-than-life adventure so I don't see much of an issue with it. It's a fun scene and different from anything else in the series, which is cool to see.

I like the part where they discover the entrance and begin exploring the different paintings and relics. The Uggha were a neat addition, although I do wish we had seen a big more of them. Their appearance was pretty brief but it felt like classic Indy, especially the opening of Raiders.

Overall I like it quite a bit. It's a good way to end the action and focus more on the skull's power before the big finale.

The three waterfalls are like a symbolic way of introducing the characters into a "magic kingdom". It's like a fairy tale. When they enter this kingdom reality disappears (Saucer men etc)

We also have an example of surprise / suspense. Many critics prefer surprise (We don't know that there're 3 waterfalls) but Spielberg used suspense (We KNOW the waterfalls). It's like knowing that Mac is a traitor showing Spalko following them.

Wilhelm said:

The three waterfalls are like a symbolic way of introducing the characters into a "magic kingdom". It's like a fairy tale. When they enter this kingdom reality disappears (Saucer men etc)

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never thought of it before that way but yer right,
great thought

I disagree that having three waterfalls was "too much" or "overkill." The reason the waterfall scene doesn't work is simply because it's boring. In the other movies, Indy is given a crazy situation, and it turns out it's about to be replaced by something twice as crazy. When the heroes jumped out of the plane on the raft in Temple of Doom, they thought they were out of the woods, but they end up having to go for a breakneck snow ride down a mountain. When they think that's over Indy says, "That wasn't so bad, was it?!" and then they all immediately fall off a giant cliff of death. But they can't relax even then, because then they have to endure water rapids. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

In Indy4 the heroes learned that they would fall over three waterfalls and that's exactly what happens - nothing more, nothing less. There were no attempts to escape, nothing to up the ante. It happens exactly the way we expect it to happen, which is a big no-no. I know that out of context it seems like three waterfalls should be more than enough for Indy to contend with but it's all about presentation. The heroes should have been actively trying to do something - it would have made their inevitable failure with each drop more fun. Have them attempt to frantically paddle ashore, have them trying some desperate gambit. Throw in some crocodiles to make the scene even more crazy. But give us some conflict, and give us the characters actually being forced to do something - it makes all the difference in getting us involved.

Also, I'm really interested in the deleted scenes that are said to have come from this chapter. There was supposedly a scene where a piranha flops onto the jeep and bites Mutt. There was also some cut dialogue, and at the very beginning of the chapter on the DVD when Oxley first rises and says "Three Times it Drops" you can see Indy mouthing something in Mac's direction that's clearly the tail end of a deleted conversation. I don't know if the cuts made would have added to or subtracted from the experience, but I would have liked to know what they were.

I liked the scene with the murals inside the cave, though I would love to have known how they climbed inside it in the first place. Also, I've said it a billion times, but "Because it told me to!" is an incredibly weak motivation for Indy to return the skull to Akator. We needed a better reason for Indy and the others to press on to the lost city. Something should have happened, like Donovan shooting Henry Sr., to make Indy have to go. Make it so the aliens will psychically kill him if he doesn't, I don't care. We just need stronger motivation. Mac wants to go for the gold, and Mutt and Marion are just going because Indy's going. As Mutt himself says to Indy when Indy tells everyone he has to return the skull, "Who cares?"

The native attack was a waste of time and money, which is a damn shame because it involved a giant practical set as big as any in the whole series and involved a ton of creatively dressed and armed extras. It all amounted to just an image for the poster. Unlike in the other movies, Indy didn't escape by cleverness or desperation, but rather because the skull just drove everyone off. That's extremely lame. Have the Ugha capture all the heroes and tie them up to posts to be sacrificed (like maybe they didn't see the skull because it was still in the bag), and make a scene out of the heroes having to figure some way to escape before they get burned alive or whatever. The scene could still end the same way - with the Ugha being driven away by the skull, but at least the characters have to go through some actual trouble to justify the scene. And it could still end anticlimactically too - like after Indy and the others goes through all kinds of suspenseful, frantic nonsense to escape with their lives, the Ugha open up Oxley's bag and are driven off by the skull all by themselves. It would have been funny but still satisfying, because it is at least the conclusion to a scene, rather than just a conclusion. But the movie just thinks the concept of waterfalls and killer natives is sufficient, and it's not.

The waterfalls were probably the low-point for me. I love Doomtown and the bomb image, so I'm cool with the fridge. The prairie dogs are negligible. There were silly bits that weren't totally justified. Mac should have stayed a double agent and never been made a double.

But then we get to the waterfalls, shot without any tension or any real sense of fear. Did they think they had to get waterfalls out of the way in case they didn't make any more films? Is that why it was such a throwaway moment? Were they thinking back to the wonderful cavernous hideout behind the waterfall in Monkey King? I sure expected to see that when I became aware of the waterfalls. Entirely unjustified, if this is the way it's going to be handled.

I think the first waterfall had some tension, I noticed it in other people at the midnight showing. After that I think it should've been written differently.

Udvarnoky said:

"Because it told me to!" is an incredibly weak motivation for Indy to return the skull to Akator.

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For me, Ford's delivery of that line is what makes it work. It conveys just the slightest hint that he's responding in some type of light, hypnotic trance. This gives the impression that it's something he has to do- as opposed to some random act of kindness.

I don't think Oxley went mad from staring too long at the skull, as Spalko suggests. Instead, I think it was his failure to act on the skull's command. It's hard to believe that the blubbering version of Oxley discovered that the Russians were after the skull, and then somehow made it all the way back to Chauchilla on his own. (Where he carefully hid the skull while retracing his footsteps.) So my interpretation is that if Indy had waited too long, he would've found himself obsessed with crystal skulls all over again.

I didn't have any problem with the waterfalls, since I think it provided some good comedic beats: Indy's expression when Oxley first says, "Three times it drops", the second shot of everyone wearily getting back into the duck, and Indy clutching his hat to his chest. However, I do think the initial ride downstream would've been a good place to allow the audience to catch its breath, while giving Indy and Marion an extra minute or two to catch up.

The highlight of this chapter, for me, is the sequence with the cave paintings. The moment where Indy's silhouette flashes across the 13 aliens is reminiscent of the "Jaws" cave in Temple of Doom. There's a similar mood/atmosphere at work.

There are two things I would've done differently with the Ugha. The first is their initial reveal.

According to the dvd, the walls were decorated with the city's history- including the conquistador attack and the 13th alien being carried off. It would've been cool to have had one painting prominently displayed, where the group would naturally fixate upon it. As Indy's voice calmly narrated what it detailed, a single warrior could have crashed through the (breakable) painting and into the camera. Another nice gag would've been to have the paintings behind them slowly protrude out from the walls- as we see the warriors emerging and using them as shields. (Easier to replace than the breakable stuff, and a lot more functional.)

The second would be their attack. But first, I have to take a personal aside here, and admit that I believe every Harrison Ford movie should feature him using a bullwhip. For example:

Clear and Present Danger
President: How dare you!
Ford: How dare you sir.
President: How dare you come in here and bark at me like some little junkyard dog! I am the President of the
--KE-RRACKKK!!!--

Six Days, Seven Nights
Heche: Aren't you one of those guys?
Ford: What guys?
Heche: Those 'guy' guys. You know, those guys with skills.
Ford: Skills?
Heche: Yeah. You send them into the wilderness with a pocket knife and a Q-tip and they build you a shopping mall. You can't do that?
Ford: No, I can't do that. But I can do this:
--KE-RRACKKK!!!--

The Fugitive
Sam Gerard: Richard, do you want to get shot?!
--KE-RRACKKK!!!--

Now, I said all of that to say this. There was behind the scenes footage of a 65-year-old Harrison Ford performing overhead whip cracks outside Hangar 51. Simply put, it was glorious. There is absolutely no way that I could've been present on that set, and NOT included such a scene in the finished film.

I would've loved an aerial shot of Indy amid the ruins, hopelessly trying to keep the natives at bay with overhead whip cracks. Naturally, this would've meant downgrading the Ugha weaponry- in order to allow him enough time to accomplish the feat- but it's something I would deem a worthy compromise.

I like the one scene where Indy,going down a waterfall,suddenly takes off his hat as if to say "I need to save my hat for another adventure!" or "I have to keep my hat for another adventure!"

StoneTriple said:

I'm hot and cold on this chapter.

I think three waterfalls was one too many. I like that once they've gone over the first one they think they've made it past the danger, start to catch their breath, and then are suddenly surprised by a second waterfall. That was classic Indiana Jones. To me, the third was overkill.

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I agree, for me it was quite anti-climactic on the third waterfall. I had expected something else to happen or more heart pounding action but they went over and the next scene we have Marion holding the steering wheel.

James said:

According to the dvd, the walls were decorated with the city's history- including the conquistador attack and the 13th alien being carried off. It would've been cool to have had one painting prominently displayed, where the group would naturally fixate upon it. As Indy's voice calmly narrated what it detailed, a single warrior could have crashed through the (breakable) painting and into the camera. Another nice gag would've been to have the paintings behind them slowly protrude out from the walls- as we see the warriors emerging and using them as shields. (Easier to replace than the breakable stuff, and a lot more functional.)

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I like this idea!

I liked it. I laugh every time I see Indy explaining what three times it drops means. That was one, two....and then he goes like, "DO I need to say more?" I like really like this movie!

In an otherwise good sceen my only compaint is when their at the bottom and washed up on shore when Marion is still holding the wheel and turning it it looks fake.

Meaning she look silly. There were much better ways to get the point across she was still in a bit of shock. I expected more from Spielberg there.

arkfinder said:

In an otherwise good sceen my only compaint is when their at the bottom and washed up on shore when Marion is still holding the wheel and turning it it looks fake.

Meaning she look silly. There were much better ways to get the point across she was still in a bit of shock. I expected more from Spielberg there.

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Yep! Yet another reason why I hate Marion in this movie. Why does she have to be grinning all the time?! Psst, Garsh.

Three times it sucks. Sorry-- had to say it.

Worst scene in the movie. I loved the movie, but there were three things I disliked (vine swining, duck going over the cliff on the tree and the waterfalls).

In some ways, it was well done. Obviously it looked fantastic. Absolutely beautifully filmed. But the drama is so poorly done its hard to believe that Spielberg was behind it. Theres absolutely no sense of danger or suspense, the characters seemed barely fazed at going over a waterfall, or surviving it. Hard to believe it was filmed by the same guy who did movies like Jaws, Duel and Jurassic Park. Maybe Lucas took over that day?

It should have been a key moment in the movie, something that really stood out, and another iconic Indy moment. But not even close.

Imagine how it could have been done - forget the three waterfall nonsense, just have one big one. The characters are in the boat being swept towards it - theres a big buildup of suspense as they see it and try to struggle a while to try to escape, before realising its futile - theres some tense moments as the boat reaches the edge and begins teetering over the edge, hanging there for a second (with a first person - roller coaster view perhaps?) and then - whoosh everything goes down into the abyss.

Or maybe have two waterfalls. As they are all lying in the boat, winded and shellshocked from having survived going over a waterfall, all of a sudden out of nowhere before they realise whats happening, they are hanging over the edge of another bigger one! And leave it at that.

I think it could have been one of those scenes that could be ranked alongside the rolling boulder or the inflatable boat. As it was, the way it was filmed and the performance by the actors convinced me that they were in about as much danger as ride on a theme park water slide.