The Tree of Life

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
roundshort said:
Didn't we do eternal life already?
I think the pursuit should be for eternal youth. That's what the figurative flaming sword prevents us grown ups from returning to. Sex is the forbidden fruit, and there's a loss of innocence (paradise lost) after the act or desire. Sex is like climbing a hill on your way out of Eden. At the peak you get a glimpse of where you came from, but every time you get farther away.

The only way back is to plant your own seed. That's why I think this story is perfect for Indy 4 and the 1950's. Whether Indy has offspring or not, he's in the middle of a baby boom, with little Spielbergs and Lucases running around everywhere. His colleagues have families. Guys he led in WWII have families. (Maybe even Henry and Willie have kids.) It's the perfect environment for him to find one, want one or have one, while doing the ultimate research into where they come from.
 

IndyBuff

Well-known member
The more I think about Eden being used in Indy IV, the more exciting the idea sounds to me. This also wouldn't be the first time that Indy discovered a hidden "Eden"-like place. In many of the books, especially The Dinosaur Eggs, The Hollow Earth and The Interior World, he discovers hidden areas both in the earth and on the surface. They are often in remote and even unknown regions of the globe where few people would even bother to look. Placing Eden in the same position would work very well.:whip:
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
Moedred said:
I think the pursuit should be for eternal youth. That's what the figurative flaming sword prevents us grown ups from returning to. Sex is the forbidden fruit, and there's a loss of innocence (paradise lost) after the act or desire. Sex is like climbing a hill on your way out of Eden. At the peak you get a glimpse of where you came from, but every time you get farther away.

The only way back is to plant your own seed. That's why I think this story is perfect for Indy 4 and the 1950's. Whether Indy has offspring or not, he's in the middle of a baby boom, with little Spielbergs and Lucases running around everywhere. His colleagues have families. Guys he led in WWII have families. (Maybe even Henry and Willie have kids.) It's the perfect environment for him to find one, want one or have one, while doing the ultimate research into where they come from.


Yeah, I totally agree. Maybe it's Indys' young innocent offspring that in fact, is the only one who can open the gate to the Garden and faces temptations along the way. I think it should be a girl as all things to do with birth and fertility are associated with women.
 

monstera

Member
Personally I don't want to see a re-tread of Judeau-Christian Macguffins. The Garden of Eden is just another spin on the Holy Grail, anyway. Immortality... eternal youth... it's just splitting hairs. We've got:

1. Hebrew God artifact

2. Hindu god artifact

3. Christian God artifact

Another Judeau or Christian artifact would just be redundant, and watered-down.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
I would expect Lucas to craft an Eden that's 80% Judeo-Christian-Muslim (yes, Adam's in the Koran). Like Darth Maul for example, who turned out roughly 80% Satan with parts of other beasts and demons. With so much international box office at stake, it's just too tempting to reference origin stories from other cultres. They could graft on parts of the Mayan Sacred Tree Wacah Chan or the Norse Yggdrasil. The Tree of Knowledge might suggest Buddha's Bodhi tree or the Hindu tree of Jiva and Atman.
 

Violet

Moderator Emeritus
Well, Islam does talk of Paradise, as does Jesus Christ in the Bible during his crucifiction (I know I spelt that wrong, the correct spelling has escaped my mind at the moment). Technically, one could say that Islam would be the next religion covered in the series. It would make sense as Spielberg did say something about Indy IV being a tad political.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
According to Lucas, Eden might even be Judeo-Christian-Wookie.
Remember Leia's speech on Kashyyyk in the Star Wars Holiday Special? "I hope that this day will always be a day of joy in which we can reconfirm our dedication and our courage. And more than anything else, our love for one another. This is the promise of the Tree of Life."
 

Rod The Raider

New member
I was thinking. By the way I really love this idea and its been an interesting read of all the posts. I have a theory I'd like to propose.

We're looking at a story set during the 1950's right? Maybe it will be the early 50's, a time not that far from the end of WWII. Spielberg is Jewish and he always has a link in most of his films with WWII, Schindler's List being an example. Maybe the artefact will be of Jewish heritage.

Remember, God's chosen people were of Israel who were begot by Abraham. God's first covenant was with Abraham and his people to follow. So I believe that the story for the fourth will be concerning something related to the Old Testament, like Raiders with the Ark - remember, LC was about the grail which is from the New Testament.

I'd say that the tree of life/garden of eden idea that has been proposed in this thread, is related to what the fourth Indy's plot will be in the sense that you're shooting in the right direction.

It will indeed be very interesting how this all turns out!
 

Ray Delark

New member
I bet you're right man. But if that's the subject of Indy 4, I4 will blow the Fountain away like Raiders of the Lost Ark did the very forgettable King Solomon's Mines. Although, KSM it did have Sharon Stone, heh:whip:

That Fountain preview is worth checking out.
 
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Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Violet Indy said:
Maybe it's Indys' young innocent offspring that in fact, is the only one who can open the gate to the Garden
This is a fantastic idea. It really elevates her role. Of course, once she lets others through, you have the same conundrum as in Raiders: people (villains particularly) using loopholes to tap God's power while God is powerless to intervene.

I've warmed to the idea of Eden being not of this Earth. Good luck to the writers on getting people there. The concept could draw from Revelations, Islam and Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah). Shehaqim, specifically: the third of seven levels of heaven. And if Shehaqim links to hell, it would be interesting to see a villain plummet all the way back down to his level of hell.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Remember this 1997 scoop sent to Corona?

"While I was managing a movie theater here in Moscow, Idaho, one of my employees told me about a local resident (a friend of her father's) who was approached by someone connected with Spielberg and the Indiana Jones IV development team. This resident (who I am acquainted with; a friend of my family as well) is a minister and theologist. He recently took a trip back east for biblical research, and became involved with a study of Genesis. So, somewhere along the line, someone connected with Indiana Jones IV heard about his studies and asked him to participate in fact-checking and historical accuracy with Indy Jones IV. He mentioned to my employee that they sent him a completed script to be checked for biblical truth and reverancy. He read the script and gave it his personal seal of approval. He mentioned that the script dealt with the Garden of Eden, and its discovery by Indiana Jones. He said that it was extremely religous in its tone, and that it played with some of the same elements as Raiders of the Lost Ark. He also said that the script was only a 'possibility,' one of several possible ideas for Indy IV. He said it was very exciting and would play well as a film. I would have to rate this scoop as extremely reliable; I know this minister and theologist personally. I have no doubts as to the accuracy of this story."
 

MsIndy07

New member
Moedred said:
Remember this 1997 scoop sent to Corona?

"While I was managing a movie theater here in Moscow, Idaho, one of my employees told me about a local resident (a friend of her father's) who was approached by someone connected with Spielberg and the Indiana Jones IV development team. This resident (who I am acquainted with; a friend of my family as well) is a minister and theologist. He recently took a trip back east for biblical research, and became involved with a study of Genesis. So, somewhere along the line, someone connected with Indiana Jones IV heard about his studies and asked him to participate in fact-checking and historical accuracy with Indy Jones IV. He mentioned to my employee that they sent him a completed script to be checked for biblical truth and reverancy. He read the script and gave it his personal seal of approval. He mentioned that the script dealt with the Garden of Eden, and its discovery by Indiana Jones. He said that it was extremely religous in its tone, and that it played with some of the same elements as Raiders of the Lost Ark. He also said that the script was only a 'possibility,' one of several possible ideas for Indy IV. He said it was very exciting and would play well as a film. I would have to rate this scoop as extremely reliable; I know this minister and theologist personally. I have no doubts as to the accuracy of this story."

Thanks for posting this. That idea sound like it would make a great plot for Indy IV, but unfortunately it is probably not the case. I don't think they are planning on doing something biblical in this movie, though i coudl be wrong. I liek this idea though.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
With the revelations about crystal skulls and South America, I figured Indy 4 could not feature Eden. But then minor actor Tyler Nelson mentioned a 'crucifix skull.' There's a legend that the place of Jesus' crucifixion (Golgotha, 'place of the skull') was also the burial place of Adam. If there are other skulls, they could represent the 12 tribes of Israel (ruby, topaz, beryl, turquoise, sapphire, emerald, jacinth, agate, amethyst, chrysolite, onyx, jasper) or the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem (jasper, sapphire, chalcedony, emerald, sardonyx, carnelian, chrysolite, beryl, topaz, chrysoprase, jacinth, amethyst).

From reading 1491, The Amazon forest sounds like a perfect Eden. But how to explain the relocation to the Holy Land in Genesis? Suppose Noah's ark crossed the Atlantic. Or, Adam and Eve forcefully cast out of Eden to another continent. Like Elijah or Enoch, whisked away by a chariot or whirlwind, not to heaven, but somewhere else on Earth. I'm still guessing they'll use the skull(s) in Indy 4 to open some such portal.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I don't even think the beards could pull off a connection between Pangaea, the Flood and the Crystal Skulls in one flick. Even if they did, the suspension of disbelief would have to allow for migration from the fertile cresent across the Gobi dessert, to the heart of the Amazon.

And how would the flaming sword play into that.

Surely fuel for the fodder though....
 

Kingsley

Member
Part of the magic in movies is that you can reach such a suspension of disbelief that things like this (Eden in Amazonas with crystall skulls) could be possible in the inner logic of the story.

If some part of this plot theory becomes true in the film, then probably all those years of working and reworking the script have ended in a tangled, still exciting, idea.
 

peterlally

New member
I have become a little worried this movie is going to blow big time, but the bearded duo have taken so long making this movie because they wanted it to be better than the first three, I keep getting that Raiders feeling now and again and then lose it.

There are no guarantees that it will be set in a south American Jungle, it may be deepest darkest Africa.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Pale Horse said:
I don't even think the beards could pull off a connection between Pangaea, the Flood and the Crystal Skulls in one flick.
The 5 unused titles remain filed at the patent office... are they red herrings, future tales, or aspects of Indy 4? 'Quest for the Covenant' and 'Fourth Corner of Earth' could be Eden, while 'Destroyer of Worlds' sounds like Revelations...
 

Arkimedes

New member
Moedred said:
With the revelations about crystal skulls and South America, I figured Indy 4 could not feature Eden. But then minor actor Tyler Nelson mentioned a 'crucifix skull.' There's a legend that the place of Jesus' crucifixion (Golgotha, 'place of the skull') was also the burial place of Adam. If there are other skulls, they could represent the 12 tribes of Israel (ruby, topaz, beryl, turquoise, sapphire, emerald, jacinth, agate, amethyst, chrysolite, onyx, jasper) or the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem (jasper, sapphire, chalcedony, emerald, sardonyx, carnelian, chrysolite, beryl, topaz, chrysoprase, jacinth, amethyst).

From reading 1491, The Amazon forest sounds like a perfect Eden. But how to explain the relocation to the Holy Land in Genesis? Suppose Noah's ark crossed the Atlantic. Or, Adam and Eve forcefully cast out of Eden to another continent. Like Elijah or Enoch, whisked away by a chariot or whirlwind, not to heaven, but somewhere else on Earth. I'm still guessing they'll use the skull(s) in Indy 4 to open some such portal.

Moedred, I too would certainly love to see the movie go that route. I think it would be better with a Biblical story line than anything dealing with aliens. (UGGHHH!) I mean what better way to connect this movie with the others like Raiders and Last Crusade than by going with a Biblical storyline? I've got my fingers crossed and would love to see them searching for Eden.
 
Moedred said:
The 5 unused titles remain filed at the patent office... are they red herrings, future tales, or aspects of Indy 4? 'Quest for the Covenant' and 'Fourth Corner of Earth' could be Eden, while 'Destroyer of Worlds' sounds like Revelations...


Wouldn't surprise me were they the name of a few new books or comics or something along those lines...
 
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