What was in the blood of Kali?

Stoo

Well-known member
West End Games Temple of Doom Sourcebook said:
"The ritual involves the newcomer's ingesting of the consecrated Cozur, or heart, of Kali."
I'm curious to know where the authours of the book got the name 'Cozur'. Never heard of that before and, to my knowledge, it has always been referred to as 'gur' or 'jaggery'.

One parallel between the consecrated sugar and the Blood of Kali is that the Thugs believed if a normal person were ever to swallow it, they would "become like them" for the rest of their life. The effect of eating the 'gur' was to make one immune from the pain & suffering of their victims (like we see in "Temple of Doom"). Disregarding form & taste, the only difference is that the Blood of Kali has a way out: being burned by fire!:eek:
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
I'm curious to know where the authours of the book got the name 'Cozur'. Never heard of that before and, to my knowledge, it has always been referred to as 'gur' or 'jaggery'.

A quick Google search didn't turn up anything useful on the word 'Cozur' either.

This site came up, though:

http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/asst001/spring99/belanger/Belanger.html

Stoo said:
One parallel between the consecrated sugar and the Blood of Kali is that the Thugs believed if a normal person were ever to swallow it, they would "become like them" for the rest of their life. The effect of eating the 'gur' was to make one immune from the pain & suffering of their victims (like we see in "Temple of Doom"). Disregarding form & taste, the only difference is that the Blood of Kali has a way out: being burned by fire!:eek:

The WEG Sourcebook paraphrased:

The Thuggee are either thieves and murders who preyed on travellers or merchants in the countryside; or they are protectors of pilgrims.

The Thuggee became over-zealous until by the late 1700s most people were afraid to travel by road. Later, the development of India's railway system also meant there were less travellers to attack, so pilgrims became a target. Once not even the faithful were safe from attack, the Thuggee became known as oathbreakers and murderers, and were soon despised by almost everyone.

The book records that the Thuggee were closely associated with Kali, and that they didn't originally attack pilgrims because the priests of Kali didn't want to earn their goddess the wrath of another deity. As the number of travellers diminished this consideration became secondary to providing Kali with ther blood she demanded.

The Thuggee then adopted their own secret language, Ramasi, to identify themselves to each other. They also began ambushing people near small towns and villages, taking them alive to a predetermined location where the ritual was performed.

Since discovery of the ritual location was a constant risk, the Thuggee leaders established severe punishments for those who betrayed the location of a temple. They also made joining the Thuggee extremely difficult.

To join the recruit had to be related to his sponsor, then initiated at a ceremony involving both Thuggee and Priests of Kali: ingesting the consecrated Cozur, or heart of Kali.

Punishment for betraying the Thuggee or Kali involved the ritual staking of the betrayer in the centre of a circle, who would then be crushed by an elephant sitting on them.

Between 1820-1850 when the British learned of the Thuggee attacks they took little interest in the matter, believing the assaults were committed by wild animals. After several army patrols disappeared and merchants began refusing to travel other than by railway, the army commanders found both royal and company officials demanding an explanation.

The British then effectively exterminated the Thuggee in a massive sweep.
First, they made it a crime punishable by hanging to support the Thuggee or to worship Kali. Temples were destroyed and followers of Kali were captured. Important priests were interrogated and publicly executed.

Second, the army forced the Thuggee who lived in the forests into open combat.

[In Pankot it is said that the army raided and destroyed an enormous Thuggee temple complex, killing over 300 priests and followers.]

The Thuggee and the Kali cult were broken within three years, becoming so fragmented that the groups effectively ceased to exist.


Kali is a strong and proficient warrior, but her weakness is her desire for human flesh. It is this craving that drives her into fits of destruction and rage. Shiva, her sonsort, exerts a calming influence over the goddess.

Bengal is Kali's strongest area of worship, though before the British broke the power of the Thuggee, she was worshipped all over India. Most of her followers tend to be from the low caste or are people who live outside India's major cities. When not forming temples in the countryside, worshippers of Kali can be found near cremation grounds.

Shiva is the Disintegration Principle, that which will in the end of all things lead to destruction. The important difference between Shiva and Kali, is that Shiva embodies the concept that through destruction will come new life. Kali, on the other hand, is the representation of the void at the end of time, often translated as annihilation or entropy.

Sankara, often called the corruptor, is the god of false teachings, and a cruel manipulator. He delights in starting major battles between other gods, or between different religions. Some even call him 'lord of the demons.'

Sankara has two powers that can effect humans. The first allows him to possess someone and to use the individual to make trouble or to disrupt an occurrence he doesn't want to happen. His second power is his ability to cause people to lose control of themselves, which usually lasts for no more than an hour.

Sankara's ultimate goal is to corrupt humanity from the tru path so that the world will fall into anarchy and be destroyed.

In the Vedic version of Hindu mythology the amount of favour gained by offering a blood sacrifice is dependent on what is offered.

"The offering of a horse gives the worshipper 10 years of favour. The offering of a cow gives the worshipper 15 years of favour. The offering of a man gives the worshipper 50 years of favour."
 

Johnny Jones

New member
The Michael French storybook of ToD says that the Blood of Kali is made from the blood of previous sacrifice victims, and I believe it says there are other ingredients but doesn't name them (I don't have my copy right now so I'm going from memory, but I'm certain about the first part). Apparently they didn't all get lowered into the lava pit.

I don't mean to ignore what you wrote, Montana, I just have nothing to add to it. :whip:
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
As the number of travellers diminished this consideration became secondary to providing Kali with ther blood she demanded.
Johnny Jones said:
The Michael French storybook of ToD says that the Blood of Kali is made from the blood of previous sacrifice victims...
Aaargh! Don't get me started. Too much to comment on so I've started a new thread to combat this: Thuggee - Fact & Fiction

Since this thread is about BLOOD:

Probably the biggest misinterpretation is the blood, itself. The spilling of blood is completely contrary to what the Thugs believed in. That is why they strangled people to death! Going back to original legend, Kali fought a demon. After every wound she inflicted, if a drop of blood hit the ground it would create another demon...and so on and so on. (More on that later...)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
Aaargh! Don't get me started. Too much to comment on so I've started a new thread to combat this: Thuggee - Fact & Fiction

I'll post the WEG bits in your thread for further discussion.

Stoo said:
Since this thread is about BLOOD:

Probably the biggest misinterpretation is the blood, itself. The spilling of blood is completely contrary to what the Thugs believed in. That is why they strangled people to death! Going back to original legend, Kali fought a demon. After every wound she inflicted, if a drop of blood hit the ground it would create another demon...and so on and so on. (More on that later...)

Where to discuss this? Here or in Thuggee fact and fiction?

This site appears informative, with references:

http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/asst001/spring99/belanger/Belanger.html

But the links on it no longer work.
 

Willie

New member
It could have been the blood from past victims. Remember, the victim with his still beating heart cut out as a sacrifice to Kali in the film? Mola Ram could have also saved the blood of that victim and mixed it with a hallucinogenic as well. This type of blood was used in rituals and sacrifices to Kali. Here's some very interesting information I found on the internet.

http://www.themystica.com/mythical-folk/articles/kali_ma.html
There is a sentence in the article that states and then it continues from there
"Blood sacrifice was important in the worship of Kali"

Stoo said:
Probably the biggest misinterpretation is the blood, itself. The spilling of blood is completely contrary to what the Thugs believed in. That is why they strangled people to death! Going back to original legend, Kali fought a demon. After every wound she inflicted, if a drop of blood hit the ground it would create another demon...and so on and so on. (More on that later...)
I've read the legend about that too. The fun thing about movies is you don't have to be always exact or dead on (pardon the pun) when it comes to an original legend(s). Hence, the blood letting for use in the ToD film. ;)

Dr.Jonesy said:
Just a spoonful of sugar...
and the medicine goes downnnn...
Sorry, I couldn't resist ;)
 
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Matt deMille

New member
I always thought of the Blood in TOD as being similar to the various potions in the Caribbean used for zombification. Real zombification is not a true "undead", but more of a really drugged state where someone "may as well be dead", mindlessly going about tasks. Sort of like a truth serum but stronger, and more directed toward physical obedience than simply speaking. People in many Caribbean cultures greatly fear being "zombified" by drinking this ancient brew. I wonder if those drinking it also don't make it stronger by believing in it.

This brings up an interesting side note: Indy is always saying he doesn't believe in magic in every successive movie, even after having witnessed it first-hand in movies prior. Is it possible Indy really does believe in all this hocus-pocus? And always did? And thus is his denial simply a means of stealing his nerves? If so, his drinking the Blood would give it that additional potency of his believing in it. Just a thought.
 

Willie

New member
Matt deMille said:
I always thought of the Blood in TOD as being similar to the various potions in the Caribbean used for zombification. Real zombification is not a true "undead", but more of a really drugged state where someone "may as well be dead", mindlessly going about tasks. Sort of like a truth serum but stronger, and more directed toward physical obedience than simply speaking. People in many Caribbean cultures greatly fear being "zombified" by drinking this ancient brew. I wonder if those drinking it also don't make it stronger by believing in it.

This brings up an interesting side note: Indy is always saying he doesn't believe in magic in every successive movie, even after having witnessed it first-hand in movies prior. Is it possible Indy really does believe in all this hocus-pocus? And always did? And thus is his denial simply a means of stealing his nerves? If so, his drinking the Blood would give it that additional potency of his believing in it. Just a thought.

I watched many a movie with Zombie rituals in it and they use potions to bend people's wills. I liked your analogy on that.

It could very well be that Indy does indeed believe in it and is denying that truth to himself and made him more successive to suggestion. Very interesting thought.

A lot of rituals used for centuries are still potent to this day because of people's strong belief in them.
 

Matt deMille

New member
This may have to branch into its own thread: Does Indy REALLY disbelieve in the supernatural, or is that just something he says because he's really afraid of it? Although I doubt Lucas, Spielberg, Ford or Kasdan thought that deep about the character in that regard, movies take on their own life, and in the "reality" of Indy's world, might this aspect of his character explain a lot? Consider . . .

If Indy always believed in the supernatural and only said otherwise, it would add a new dimension to:

1) His being so powerfully converted by the Blood in TOD.

2) His knowing exactly when to close the eyes when the Ark was opened.

3) His willingness to take a "leap of faith" in LC (despite his father dying, I always thought jumping into oblivion was still a bit of a stretch, considering that Indy hadn't really seen any miracles at work at that point, only booby traps).

4) His fear of looking into the crystal skull ("Why don't *you* look into it?")

Should this be it's own thread? Thoughts?
 

Willie

New member
I think this would make for an excellent thread. :)

Indy was indeed influenced by the blood of Kali. You're dead on (please pardon the pun) when Indy knows exactly when to close his eyes and warning Marion during in Raiders. He also knew exactly which grail to pick in Crusade and what to chant when holding the stone in ToD. I also noticed his fear at looking into the crystal skull in KOTCS.

I would say that Indy DOES believe in the supernatural and over the years in his career and of course, his many adventures become more and more open to saying "I believe" ;)
 

Matt deMille

New member
Willie said:
I think this would make for an excellent thread. :)

Indy was indeed influenced by the blood of Kali. You're dead on (please pardon the pun) when Indy knows exactly when to close his eyes and warning Marion during in Raiders. He also knew exactly which grail to pick in Crusade and what to chant when holding the stone in ToD. I also noticed his fear at looking into the crystal skull in KOTCS.

I would say that Indy DOES believe in the supernatural and over the years in his career and of course, his many adventures become more and more open to saying "I believe" ;)

Thanks, Willie! I'm going to start this thread under General Indiana Jones Discussion, entitled "What does Indy really believe?"
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Willie said:
It could have been the blood from past victims. Remember, the victim with his still beating heart cut out as a sacrifice to Kali in the film? Mola Ram could have also saved the blood of that victim and mixed it with a hallucinogenic as well.
That's was I was thinking, too. Each heart would be squeezed like a lemon into a container and the blood would be boiled to stop it from coagulating. (Coagulated blood would be absolutely disgusting!:sick:) Here's what the dubious, Lost Journal says:

"The Thuggees use this vessel to subdue their victims with blood laced with some type of narcotic drug that enables them to control your mind."
Willie said:
This type of blood was used in rituals and sacrifices to Kali. Here's some very interesting information I found on the internet.

http://www.themystica.com/mythical-folk/articles/kali_ma.html
There is a sentence in the article that states and then it continues from there
"Blood sacrifice was important in the worship of Kali"
Ah, but the difference is that this article is about the HINDU worship of Kali and not the Thuggee. I *think* Hindu blood sacrifices to Kali (goats, etc.) are still practiced today in some parts of India.
Willie said:
and the medicine goes downnnn...
"In the most delightful way!";)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
That's was I was thinking, too. Each heart would be squeezed like a lemon into a container and the blood would be boiled to stop it from coagulating. (Coagulated blood would be absolutely disgusting!:sick:) Here's what the dubious, Lost Journal says:

"The Thuggees use this vessel to subdue their victims with blood laced with some type of narcotic drug that enables them to control your mind."

With Temple of Doom, not only is there a blurring between fact and fiction (real/pulp Thuggees and Kali worship), but there is also a blurring between magic and sleight of hand.

Mola possesses the power to extract a heart and keep the victim alive; the Maharajah can cause pain to Indy by use of a 'voodoo' doll; Indy can invoke the power of Shiva.

Yet, there is a tendency to assign the Blood of Kali and the Black Sleep of Kali to scientific terminology - even in The Lost Journal. I wonder why that is?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Moedred said:
Until 4 years ago, the official site said Chattar Lal had a "carefully cultivated supply of psychotropic herbs."
http://moedred.livejournal.com/2008/04/13

"...the unseen puppeteer holding the strings of power." The West End Games Sourcebook also recorded that Lal escaped.

So if that was on the official indianajones.com, it was intended to be canon?

Lal was in fact a fanatical devotee of the death cult of Kali, and had used his knowledge and carefully cultivated supply of psychotropic herbs to bend the young Maharajah's will to the service of the goddess. Lacking the charisma or strength to command the masses like the High Priest Mola Ram, Chattar tried to exert influence more subtly -- the unseen puppeteer holding the strings of power.

Does this imply that Mola's powers were limited to charismatic leadership? The West End Games book goes into detail about Mola's supernatural battle with Marhan the shaman.

The indianajones.com archives record this under Mola's description:

...Mola Ram's "Black Sleep" spell, induced by imbibing the Blood of Kali...

Here the emphasis is on spell.

The backstory is confusing, as it says that Mola induced Lal to make the Maharajah drink the Blood of Kali, which implies the psychotropic herbs, which needn't have required a "spell".
 
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