Thanks to Mattel...Hasbro is changing it's tune.

Ok.....Only a very few months ago, we saw Hasbro fight and fight with fans over the prospect of an internet exclusive line of action figures. It was made clear again and again that Hasbro would not be able to afford to produce a set of website figures for the Indy line based on it's current production contract with the factories.

The subject sort of ended with a can't be done kind of mind set.

Little did Hasbro understand the type of storm that was brewing over at Mattel.

Mattel decided that with appropriate contracts in place and the correct type of system on-line that they indeed CAN sell a series of action figures and exclusives for other lines on their website with a shared portion going to selected Comic shows like NYCC and SDCC.

Mattel is the 1st to tell you..Exclusive ON-LINE TOY LINES WORK!! It started with selling a portion of SDCC exclusives on mattycollector.com...then, it moved to He-Man: Masters of the Universe. BOOM!! EVERY FIGURE that was allocated for on-line sales SOLD OUT!

The exclusive On-Line action figure market worked so well that Mattle went for broke and has now included a NEW line of figures to it's on-line offerings this year ( GHOSTBUSTERS ).

Well, Now we get to Toy Fair..and Lookie at who is now making exclusives for thier website / Comic Con stores....HASBROTOYSHOP.COM!

Yes, the initial figures will be Star Wars, Gi Joe, Marvel Comics, and Transformers ( not sure if any lines other than Star Wars have listed exclusives yet ). However, Mattel has generated the spark that was needed. Now, with the proper marketing and proper contract for production...The chance of seeing Indy continue as an on-line exclusive is NO LONGER Impossible!!

Will it happen? Who knows...However, it is no longer something we can't demand.

Thanks for posting that TNS. Makes a lot of sense, and its nice to see Hasbro changed their tune (at least in some respect) about online sales. Of course, the licensing fees for Indy might still make online exlcusives unlikely, BUT, if Hasbro can re-negotiate...who knows?

twnsman's gotten it wrong again. Hasbro's been doing online exclusives for some time now (going back to 1997, actually). The issue wasn't that the store couldn't make exclusive figures profitable, but that Indiana Jones as exclusives wouldn't be profitable.

It's the license that's the deal-breaker, not the toy itself.

but they hold the liscense already. I think they think that they won't sell...even though they ran out of the Crystal Skeleton and had to make more. (according to my postcard in January).

Vance said:

twnsman's gotten it wrong again. Hasbro's been doing online exclusives for some time now (going back to 1997, actually). The issue wasn't that the store couldn't make exclusive figures profitable, but that Indiana Jones as exclusives wouldn't be profitable.

It's the license that's the deal-breaker, not the toy itself.

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What the deal breaker was , is that Hasbro had produced the exclusives under the current contracts, they would have had to produce the high numbers of figures that would have NOT been able to sell out and make a profit.

Everyone knows about Hasbro's past failures at on-line exclusives. The thing is Hasbro has to limit them in ways where they WANT to sell out. They shouldn't try to supply the world. Mattel is showing that it's a good thing to turn people away. There is more interest in He-Man figures than ever before...even if some of it is from scalpers that are sellingthe figures for $200.00 each on eBay. It's a good problem for Mattel to have and one that Hasbro needs.


No, you need to see above where I said that the contract would have to be re-worked...Thanks to what Mattel is doing, the idea is more of a reality now than ever before.

It all has to do on having a new contract with the factories which you should have read in Hasbro's own words was the problem with the prospect before.

There are two factors going into this.

ddschneider1972 said:

but they hold the liscense already. I think they think that they won't sell...even though they ran out of the Crystal Skeleton and had to make more. (according to my postcard in January).

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Right!

If the License can't be re-worled in a way that allows for Less production then it will NEVER work. However, Hasbro has a lot of success to miss out on thanks to Mattel showing how to work a line of figures that Retail does not want.

It's up to Lucas to agree.

DIrishB said:

Thanks for posting that TNS. Makes a lot of sense, and its nice to see Hasbro changed their tune (at least in some respect) about online sales. Of course, the licensing fees for Indy might still make online exlcusives unlikely, BUT, if Hasbro can re-negotiate...who knows?

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There are certain elemts that are factors now that simply were not there several months ago. ( economy, Retail unwillingness v.s. online market lines already shown successful )

With Hope, Hasbro will factor these elemnts into the line and take this to Lucas now that the Indy contract can be re0worked since the retail life of the line is dead.

It may even be Lucasfilm that takes the idea to Hasbro now since the on-line exclusive lines that are rejected by retail are making big news in the toy world.

for the 1st time, Hasbro has to play catch-up to Mattel and this is an area where Hasbro knows there is interest, just not at the level that the former contracts would call for. However, a new contract would allow for lesser production.

tnswman said:

What the deal breaker was , is that Hasbro had produced the exclusives under the current contracts, they would have had to produce the high numbers of figures that would have NOT been able to sell out and make a profit.

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The problem is that Hasbro can't afford the risk with the Indiana Jones property, which has licensing fees close to Star Wars. While it's pretty nearly a safe bet that an online exclusive Mara Jade figure would sell enough to recoup the additional cost, exclusive Indy figures likely would not.

As for Indy figures that would sell to be worthwhile, who would you suggest that wouldn't make more sense at retail? Marcus Brody, maybe? Sophia Hapgood? It's a pretty short list, and not a lot of 'cool' factor in them.

What would be cool for a few hundred dedicated fans may still not be enough to produce an affordable figure, and if that just means a price increase, who here is willing to fork over $30 to $70 for a 3 1/4 exclusive figure of Ilsa Toht?

It all has to do on having a new contract with the factories which you should have read in Hasbro's own words was the problem with the prospect before.

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You could also call their director of licensing, as I have on a few occasions, whom you can call through their Rhode Island offices.

Vance said:

The problem is that Hasbro can't afford the risk with the Indiana Jones property, which has licensing fees close to Star Wars. While it's pretty nearly a safe bet that an online exclusive Mara Jade figure would sell enough to recoup the additional cost, exclusive Indy figures likely would not.

As for Indy figures that would sell to be worthwhile, who would you suggest that wouldn't make more sense at retail? Marcus Brody, maybe? Sophia Hapgood? It's a pretty short list, and not a lot of 'cool' factor in them.

What would be cool for a few hundred dedicated fans may still not be enough to produce an affordable figure, and if that just means a price increase, who here is willing to fork over $30 to $70 for a 3 1/4 exclusive figure of Ilsa Toht?



You could also call their director of licensing, as I have on a few occasions, whom you can call through their Rhode Island offices.

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Hey you know me..I totally think that Indy would sell at retail if they didn't confine themselves to such a limited character selection folowed by so many revision cases of the same characters.

I Like Mattel's mind-set of giving the fans more obscure characters ( such as amanda Waller and Clock King ) that are not filled with the "cool factor" a place to be sold.

I think the mindset of the collector base has shifted to where they will pay $20.00 for a figure now or in the case of JLU $30.00 for a 3 pack.

I'm not foolish enough to think this is a reality..I just can see the trend shaping up and would like to see Indy considered under a revised contract both with Lucas and the factories.

The factories made out like bandits on the Indy line.

Remember, even if we are talking about the lost Indy wave..The tooling for those figures is either 100% done or at the least 50% done...so, those costs are cut.. Hasbro could offer them as a set via on-line, SDCC, and NYCC....Will it happen..NO! However, there is a new model for them to follow now.

tnswman said:

Hey you know me..I totally think that Indy would sell at retail if they didn't confine themselves to such a limited character selection folowed by so many revision cases of the same characters.

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That's what LucasFilm wanted, though, and they were very interested in shoving out Mutt (whom they decided was the next Jar Jar Binks, which is in turn very unfair to Shaia, who did put in a good performance and made Mutt a decent character) in large numbers. Yeah, it seriously hurt the line, enough the retailers consider it poison. I really can't blame Hasbro too much on this one.

I think the mindset of the collector base has shifted to where they will pay $20.00 for a figure now or in the case of JLU $30.00 for a 3 pack.

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True, as a collector's line, but we're still talking costs a lot higher than that. The market's smaller, and the number of 'must have' character is a lot smaller. Like I said, once you're past the main characters in the movies, you're seriously out of wide-appeal, particularly coupled with the needed 'realism' that an Indiana Jones line would require. I couldn't give, for instance, Isla Toht a super-gimmicked out piece of hardware to make her more toyetic. (Exclusive artifacts, though? More likely.)

The factories made out like bandits on the Indy line.

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I'm not totally sure about that, considering... It generally works that the more of 'X' Hasbro is putting out, the less of the other 25 letters is getting put out. Overall, it's generally the same volume of product, just one line may have more of a run at any given point.

Vance said:

That's what LucasFilm wanted, though, and they were very interested in shoving out Mutt (whom they decided was the next Jar Jar Binks, which is in turn very unfair to Shaia, who did put in a good performance and made Mutt a decent character) in large numbers. Yeah, it seriously hurt the line, enough the retailers consider it poison. I really can't blame Hasbro too much on this one.

No, you sure can't they did a GREAT job at giving us what Lucas allowed us to have...The Lost wave of figures should have NEVER been passed up by Lucas.



True, as a collector's line, but we're still talking costs a lot higher than that. The market's smaller, and the number of 'must have' character is a lot smaller. Like I said, once you're past the main characters in the movies, you're seriously out of wide-appeal, particularly coupled with the needed 'realism' that an Indiana Jones line would require. I couldn't give, for instance, Isla Toht a super-gimmicked out piece of hardware to make her more toyetic. (Exclusive artifacts, though? More likely.)


sure, the understanding on our part will be that we have to pay a high premium for these figures. I know I would in a heart beat...However, how many of Me are there out there?



I'm not totally sure about that, considering... It generally works that the more of 'X' Hasbro is putting out, the less of the other 25 letters is getting put out. Overall, it's generally the same volume of product, just one line may have more of a run at any given point.

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Well, here is the deal The Initial Line was in theory to be released in the last quarter 07 / early part of 08 as a Raiders of the Lost Ark line 1st...Then, the retail support just fell away when stores like Target and TRU saw the big picture of the case revisions. When that happened, Lucas and Hasbro had to make the ENTIRE line a Movie-tie in line.

Had it went as planned, we would have gotten the 2nd Raider's wave at the time that we ended up with the TOD wave.

However, one thing that didn't change were the production #'s that were already guranteed to the factories. So, the factories did their thing and in the end they made out better % wise than Hasbro ( who had to TRASH a TON of figures...Just like Episode 1 toys ) and the retailers who had to clearance the toys.

tnswman said:

Then, the retail support just fell away when stores like Target and TRU saw the big picture of the case revisions. When that happened, Lucas and Hasbro had to make the ENTIRE line a Movie-tie in line.

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Seeing entire shipments of 90 percent of the same figure is always a turnoff, but it's a lesson that Hasbro and Mattel both seem want to ignore. (This issue killed He-Men during both of its revivals, and constantly hurts 'tie-in' lines like Batman and Iron Man every time they come up.)

However, one thing that didn't change were the production #'s that were already guranteed to the factories. So, the factories did their thing and in the end they made out better % wise than Hasbro ( who had to TRASH a TON of figures...Just like Episode 1 toys ) and the retailers who had to clearance the toys.

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That's true. I'm just saying that the factories didn't make more money than they usually do, since their outputs, overall, were the same. The loss to Hasbro and Wal*Mart (in particular) was staggering.

Vance said:

Seeing entire shipments of 90 percent of the same figure is always a turnoff, but it's a lesson that Hasbro and Mattel both seem want to ignore. (This issue killed He-Men during both of its revivals, and constantly hurts 'tie-in' lines like Batman and Iron Man every time they come up.)



That's true. I'm just saying that the factories didn't make more money than they usually do, since their outputs, overall, were the same. The loss to Hasbro and Wal*Mart (in particular) was staggering.

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Right on..It's like Mattel found a perfect way to launch a new line or un-cool figures while controlling the loss a little at least....You know that Hasbro is not far behind. Hasbro just grinned and went on with the Indy line...They knew that Lucas ruined the line for them and Us. They pretty well could feel the retail support die.


Oh, they may not have made more money but they at least didn't have to suffer like H and retailers did....Yes, it was a shame that could have been avoided MAJORLY

So, Is it more likely to see an online exclusive when the manufacturer holds the rights to the intellectual property than when it is a licensd franchise?

If so, that would explain why certain lines can be sold out as internet exclusives directly by the manufacturer (Transformers, MOTU, GI Joe) and others seem to be designed to be sold through to established online sellers (the SW Entertainmenth Earth exclusives).

Forget about online exclusives, hell I'd be more happy with better distribution of the figures that SHOULD have been in stores namley the Last Crusade & Temple of Doom lines. Here's Indy's Fist standing at Wal-Mart ready to buy Indy Jones figures and what do I find? Two or three out of six! I was very lucky to have found the TOD line at a local grocery store of all places, and that was just by accident! I still have yet to find Elsa Schneider and so far I refuse to pay a seller on Ebay $12 or more dollars plus shipping.

Errex said:

So, Is it more likely to see an online exclusive when the manufacturer holds the rights to the intellectual property than when it is a licensd franchise?

If so, that would explain why certain lines can be sold out as internet exclusives directly by the manufacturer (Transformers, MOTU, GI Joe) and others seem to be designed to be sold through to established online sellers (the SW Entertainmenth Earth exclusives).

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See, that's where the change has come in..Mattel is breaking that mold with the DC Universe figures and the upcoming Ghostbusters. mattycollector.com showed the collecting world what on-line exclusives can do if they are done right...and NOT as mass produced as the retail lines.

Indy's Fist said:

Forget about online exclusives, hell I'd be more happy with better distribution of the figures that SHOULD have been in stores namley the Last Crusade & Temple of Doom lines. Here's Indy's Fist standing at Wal-Mart ready to buy Indy Jones figures and what do I find? Two or three out of six! I was very lucky to have found the TOD line at a local grocery store of all places, and that was just by accident! I still have yet to find Elsa Schneider and so far I refuse to pay a seller on Ebay $12 or more dollars plus shipping.

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That's not a real problem...Outside of the TOD line....The retail problems have been widely known. It is not to say that the figures are not out there though.

Go to Big Lots..They are getting TLC wave now for $4.00 a figure.

While this is somewhat encouraging news, I'm not entirely sure I'd jump on it if it came to fruition. He-Man figs were selling for 20 bucks per as a base price, and, as you suggest, apparently have even more insane markups on the aftermarket.

If Indy figs came out at 20 bucks per... I dunno. Yeah, the market's overall prices have/are shifting upwards, but that doesn't mean every collector is following lockstep. The result for me is I've downsized my collecting significantly, as I personally can't justify the price trends.

If two or three Indy figs came out every year, I could see maybe doing it. An entire line? Probably a big pass from me. I just don't have that kind of money to put into this stuff!

vf wing said:

While this is somewhat encouraging news, I'm not entirely sure I'd jump on it if it came to fruition. He-Man figs were selling for 20 bucks per as a base price, and, as you suggest, apparently have even more insane markups on the aftermarket.

If Indy figs came out at 20 bucks per... I dunno. Yeah, the market's overall prices have/are shifting upwards, but that doesn't mean every collector is following lockstep. The result for me is I've downsized my collecting significantly, as I personally can't justify the price trends.

If two or three Indy figs came out every year, I could see maybe doing it. An entire line? Probably a big pass from me. I just don't have that kind of money to put into this stuff!

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I'm right with you - even if new IJ 3/34 figures were made available exclusively online, it would be inconvenient for me to order them that way. I would much rather see these available at retail stores or even in limited release at comic book speciality stores (like the DC Direct figures).
That all being said, I seriously doubt new IJ 3 3/4 figures will be released in any capacity at this point - the Big H really got burned on this line last year, and they probably don't have much faith in the license as a viable toy property.

I suggest everyone who can afford them enjoy the new (and forthcoming) Sideshow 12" IJ offerings, since I have a feeling those are the only new IJ figures we'll be getting in the forseeable future. Just my .02.....

I would be all over these if they came out, even at $20.00 each. As long as the paint apps are consistent, I have no problem ordering online; that's actually how I prefer to shop anyway.

I would disagree with the contention that Hasbro got burned by Indy. I think they actually made quite a bit of money off the license. If anyone got burned, it would be the retailers like WalMart who were stuck with so much product that nobody wanted.

I think that if Hasbro feels they can make money on the line, they will. They should negotiate a new contract with their manufacturers in China and/or Lucasfilm, and release a few of the "lost wave" figures to test the online-only market. But they should do it while the interest in the franchise is still relatively high. 2009 will see the release of a few Indy novels, another comic book omnibus, and a video game; why not a few more figures?