who likes it?

who likes KotCS?

  • i do

    Votes: 118 81.4%
  • i don't

    Votes: 27 18.6%

  • Total voters
    145

Wilhelm

Member
And Steven Spielberg's direction of Indy movies.

Maybe animated series, but I think KOTCS is the end of the saga in cinemas.
 

Indysolo12

New member
Hey if Star Wars Trilogy was first and then Episode I The Phantom Menace and Indiana Jones Trilogy was first and then KOTCS Then I like it
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
It's a double edged sword (no pun intended). I'm glad they made a movie and I do understand why they toned it down from the previous standards, but I cannot agree with doing that. Yes, we got to see Indiana again, but the story had many problems. It had to lose its edginess to be a more family oriented movie and to keep the censors and howling moralisers at bay and this is a major disappointment. Where were the traps, whip use and general feeling of threat? All were sadly lacking. Someone mentioned the cemetery warriors, but I thought they were good, but only in comparison to the woeful lack of anything from the Ughu(?) tribe. Just the eventual lack of threat made the scenes lame. I can't help but inversely parallel them to the Hovitos who were far more convincing, threatening and entertaining all of 27 years before. The mish mash of various characters in tow by the end made me wonder if they were on a school excursion that allowed parents and friends along. Now get this - I'm not a Hater. But something we love as much as Indiana Jones should not have been treated like this and it needs criticism and most of the criticism I have read is constructive.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Wilhelm said:
I agree. We have Old Indy in the 50s, like we see Young Indy in 1912 in Last Crusade.

The corpus of the character are the 30s, but we also have the beginning (1912) and the end (1957). Both years represented with 2 hat scenes(Fedora - Young Indy, Mutt - Old Indy).

The circle is complete.

I voted yes, for reasons I've expressed in other threads. I'm surprised that - as it stands at the moment - there is such a positive review of KOTCS, considering the vehement anti-KOTCS arguments also expressed elsewhere by Raveners.

The closing of the circle using the symbolism of hat was a neat move by Lucas and Spielberg. If there is no Indy V, then the four movies form a complete quadrology. However, the option still remains for the circle to be re-opened, and expanded.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
'Positive criticism' and "positive review" can and should be the same thing, but sometimes it is not.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Montana Smith said:
I'm surprised that - as it stands at the moment - there is such a positive review of KOTCS, considering the vehement anti-KOTCS arguments also expressed elsewhere by Raveners.

It's always been apparent that the vast majority here actually like the movie. However, liking/enjoying it and thinking it flawed/not as good as the originals is not mutually exclusive. :)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Darth Vile said:
It's always been apparent that the vast majority here actually like the movie. However, liking/enjoying it and thinking it flawed/not as good as the originals is not mutually exclusive. :)

Yes, I suspect if this thread had asked 'who loves KotCS?' the voting might be reflected differently. For veteran fans the originals will tend to have more pull. KOTCS had a lot to live up to, and it's easier to overlook the flaws of something you grew up with and consider 'classic', whilst being hyper-critical of the something that hasn't yet attained 'classic' status. I, too, was once reactionary about the return of Indy! ;)

I wonder what the overall impression of KOTCS will be in 20 years time?
 

The_Raiders

Well-known member
I was one of the few who like KOTCS when I saw it. I loved it on the big screens, it was great to be able to experience something that some of you got to back in the day, and I agree the old ones will never be beaten, and KOTCS did have it's faults, but over all I think I like it just about as much as the others.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
I'm not trying to say it was bad or great or whatever. One word cannot describe the state of the movie. I liked parts of it for sure, but it had faults that were quite deliberate and I'm trying to fathom why the makers did that.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Mickiana said:
I'm not trying to say it was bad or great or whatever. One word cannot describe the state of the movie. I liked parts of it for sure, but it had faults that were quite deliberate and I'm trying to fathom why the makers did that.

Regardless of its issues (and we all agree it has em), if the other sequels are anything to go by, I think a little distance and time will do KOTCS some favours. I had a real downer on TOD when it first came out... and I still don't think it's that great, but I do now like/enjoy it much more than I did (increasingly so over time, due to some modicum of nostalgia and perspective). I don't think KOTCS will ever be regarded as Indy at his finest (that belongs to Raiders) but even then, like TOD, its head and shoulders above the average competition.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
Time and distance will not reduce the faults in KotCS for me. I'd like to know how that could happen for anyone. A fault is a fault is a fault, now and forever. I'm now hoping Indy5 will have less faults than its most recent predecessor.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Mickiana said:
Time and distance will not reduce the faults in KotCS for me. I'd like to know how that could happen for anyone. A fault is a fault is a fault, now and forever. I'm now hoping Indy5 will have less faults than its most recent predecessor.

So would you believe that every movie viewed in a positive light is faultless? Do the flaws that TOD and TLC contain make them pariahs of 20th century movie making (in modern audiences eyes)? And would you describe your favourite movies as empirically ?perfect??

Speaking generally, issues that exist within a movie continue to exist ad infinitum, but their relevance decreases over time. As KOTCS is a high concept action/adventure period piece, I think it?s got a good chance of aging relatively well. I really don?t think people will be switching it off in 20 years time because of CGI gophers, fridges and monkeys.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Mickiana said:
Time and distance will not reduce the faults in KotCS for me. I'd like to know how that could happen for anyone. A fault is a fault is a fault, now and forever. I'm now hoping Indy5 will have less faults than its most recent predecessor.

Darth Vile said:
So would you believe that every movie viewed in a positive light is faultless? Do the flaws that TOD and TLC contain make them pariahs of 20th century movie making (in modern audiences eyes)? And would you describe your favourite movies as empirically “perfect”?

Speaking generally, issues that exist within a movie continue to exist ad infinitum, but their relevance decreases over time. As KOTCS is a high concept action/adventure period piece, I think it’s got a good chance of aging relatively well. I really don’t think people will be switching it off in 20 years time because of CGI gophers, fridges and monkeys.

I would agree with Darth Vile on this, based on personal experience.

1) For a start, is there such a thing as a 'faultless movie'? Somebody is bound to find a fault somewhere, since all art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

2) Films are designed to entertain or inspire (or both!) whilst making money for their producers. It depends on how you want to view a movie, whether faults bother you greatly.

To me, all the Indiana Jones films represent the comic book brought to the screen.

Historical faults aren't a problem because IJ lives in an alternate universe, where history takes a slightly different path.

Also, in this alternate universe physics are a little different. It's like accepting that Batman can leap from buildings without fear of death (he can't fly and he doesn't possess any super powers - he's the world's greatest detective at the peak of human physical fitness). He's sure he will take hold of something before he plummets to his death, and he's sure he won't rip his arms out their sockets.

In a comic book things look more possible than in real life. So, Indiana Jones is able to do things in his world that would put him in a coffin if he tried them in ours. Who in their right mind puts their arm under a falling stone door just to retrieve their hat? Indy does, because he has comic book surety that he'll get away with it (just as Batman does).

3) All the IJ movies were designed for entertainment - they're high on action and comedy, but they also present moments of pathos, and deal with larger issues. Indy is also an interesting character to follow.

I don't watch them as historical documents of the 1930s or 1950s, but rather as expressions of a fantastical pulp universe that never was.

I don't see KOTCS as being vastly different from the first three. The monkeys in KOTCS reflect the intelligent monkey in Raiders. The fridge is an extreme example of every other implausible cliffhanger Indy faced. Aliens are no more implausible than gods and other paranormal events.

4) Lastly, based on personal experience, I can't say for sure whether I will hate a movie forever. Sometimes something else triggers your interest in it, and you return to re-evaluate the thing you once thought banished. Then, you may begin to appreciate or even like the movie for what it is. That's just my view, and I realize not everybody is a fickle as me, though I can be very stubborn about some things!:hat:
 
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Darth Vile

New member
I do not doubt for a second that Mickiana has valid issues with the movie... issues that he believes won't disappear in time. I'm just stating that my experience, in relation to TOD, shows that the open wounds suffered by disappointment in relation to Indy movies, do usually heel over. And once they are not so tender and raw, the movie can start to be viewed at face value? and some enjoyment/pleasure and appreciation can inadvertently creep in. :)
 
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