Montana Smith
Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:delete me...
You said that before. I think you're in need of a reboot. Get C-3PO to jack into you for a new upload.
Rocket Surgeon said:delete me...
Walton said:Point is he's heroic by virtue of dumb luck...most of the time.
Nurhachi1991 said:" Any of you guys ever go to Sunday school?"
That should answer your question
Montana Smith said:I went.
When I was 14 I really began to question, and have been an atheist ever since.
Religion is one of those cultural things that can just happen to you because you grow up with it. My thoughts began with, "what are the chances that this precise religion is the correct one, just because I was born into it?" Then I began some serious reading into history, and nothing has since in the slightest changed my views. Rather, things have made my disbelief stronger.
Indy might have gone to Sunday School, but later events and study might have shaken his beliefs. We just don't know from the evidence provided by the films.
Um...nothing like advertising, though I'd be worried that 3PO might give me a bad case of "dust contamination".Montana Smith said:You said that before. I think you're in need of a reboot. Get C-3PO to jack into you for a new upload.
Rocket Surgeon said:Um...nothing like advertising, though I'd be worried that 3PO might give me a bad case of "dust contamination".
This is gettin Nasty!Montana Smith said:I'd recommend a thorough oil bath just to be on the safe side...
Rocket Surgeon said:This is gettin Nasty!
Rocket Surgeon said:You can relate to it with your contemporary mores and attempt to translate the film into your own comfort zone...
Really though, Indy was raised Christian and last we saw recieved a sacrament inside a Church.
Montana Smith said:Never nasty.
Yes. Like I wrote before. There's no evidence that Indy was an atheist. You might as well ask whether Toht was into wearing ladies' underwear.
Rocket Surgeon said:He did carry his own hangar, and comment on Marions choice of frock...
Walton said:So...how exactly does one determine God does not exist? That's the claim of atheism, right? ...God does not exist. I don't believe Indy ever made such a claim. (Robert Neville did...I Am Legend). At best, Indy was skeptical in ROTLA.
How does that work out with various religions? Whether they claim the same god (or gods) is irrelevant; the fact remains they claim some form of deity exists, so...what does that mean to the atheist?
Walton said:So...how exactly does one determine God does not exist? That's the claim of atheism, right? ...God does not exist. I don't believe Indy ever made such a claim. (Robert Neville did...I Am Legend). At best, Indy was skeptical in ROTLA.
How does that work out with various religions? Whether they claim the same god (or gods) is irrelevant; the fact remains they claim some form of deity exists, so...what does that mean to the atheist?
Supernova said:Atheism doesn't claim anything, it is the default position...
Walton said:Incorrect. Atheism is a conclusion. A determination someone made having studied, having weighed, having searched. It may be your default position, and the default position of a person or persons who have not searched, but it is of itself not a default...unless you're ten years old and know everything. No? Me neither.
To clarify, answer me this: would it be a correct statement (as an Atheist) to say, "I am an Atheist. I believe God does not exist."
Montana Smith said:A study of history reveals that Christian beliefs stem from much earlier religions with were not monotheistic.
Montana Smith said:Christianity has a habit of appropriating the past and making it it's own. When you study the causes of history (the human motivators), it is pretty clear that God or gods are a useful device to unite disparate tribes under a single banner. Given time even that unity breaks down into differing versions of the same belief system, giving rise to numerous versions of the 'true God'. And then religion becomes the easy cause and justification for war/plunder/empire building.
Montana Smith said:Rene Descartes, the rationalist thinker, famously stated, "I think, therefore I am." From this he elaborated that if he could imagine God then God must exist.
I am much more inclined to follow the empirical route: believe only that which can be proven.
God is an unnecessary complication for an already complicated world. An atheist is free of faith, and the laws which faith demands (which have their origins in human minds - such as an Amish law that says a man may not have a moustache, and the Bible must be read only in German. Or a Shariah law that says women must not show their faces in public). These are human laws, designed to control social patterns, not any route to a presumed heaven.
Montana Smith said:The question of Indy's faith or atheism is never addressed in the films, so the question is unanswerable. All we know is that Indy is a perpetual skeptic in all supernatural matters. I don't, however, see Indy bowing down to laws that would inhibit his free spirited nature. I like to see him as a liberated rogue. He has his own ethical oundaries, which are thankfully tighter than Belloq's.
Montana Smith said:That would be a correct statement. It isn't simple skepticism, but a position arrived at through research and thought, and above all, logic.
Isn't agnosticism the skeptical view that covers the unknowable? - the view that would state that it is unknowable whether God exists or not.
Could there be such a thing as a human default position? Maybe in clones.
Walton said:No, the study of Christianity shows that its roots are in Judaism, which has always been monotheistic. The two primarily differ once Jesus Christ enters the scene, Christianity espousing Christ the Messiah God promised in the Old Testament, the other waiting for some other Messiah. Same for Islam, roots in Judaism; they have Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc...but for them the buck stops on Mohamed, not Jesus.
Walton said:The study of history is a subjective study, depending on whether you claim Darwin's theory or not.
Walton said:People in the "non-religious" crowd never war, plunder or build empires? Framing religion as the catalyst is not solid footing. The word "religion" is fundamentally no different than the term "worldview"...comes from the Latin word for "ligament"...that which holds two parts together. AKA: A unified way of viewing the world in which you live. You have yours, I have mine. So, we're both religious, just not of the same religion.
Walton said:Free of faith, huh? Do you trust your beliefs? If you don't, then you are correct. If you do...
Walton said:I agree, his position is never stated; the question is unanswerable. These laws you mention...which laws? It matters not how free-spirited Indy or anyone is, but everyone bows to something.
Montana Smith said:It's roots and much of it's symbolism go back much further, at least into ancient Egyptian polytheism.
Montana Smith said:Evolution has been debated at length elsewhere on these boards before.
Montana Smith said:The atheist isn't bound by any laws of faith.
Montana Smith said:"Faith" is an emotive and highly charged word. I have confidence that there is no point in believing in man-made laws that define a path to some imagined heaven or nirvana.
Montana Smith said:We don't need to bow before anything. We will all succumb to death, we may bend in the face of natural elements. We are free to pick and choose - just as Indy explained his actions as "making it up" as he went along.