Ancient aliens

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
I bet she fed the baby bunny rabbits right up until they sent them down in a submariine, before killing their mother... :eek:

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?p=454332&highlight=rabbit#post454332

SPALKO

We sent a submarine under the surface with a mother rabbit?s new litter on board. She remained on shore while one by one, the young rabbits were exterminated.

MAC

Lady, you need a new hobby.

SPALKO

(ignoring that)

Miles away, the mother?s EEG readings showed reaction at the very instant of death. There is without a question an organic mind-body link shared by all living creatures; we must control that collective link--

This is better written than 99.9% of KOTCS. Bravo, Montana!
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Pale Horse said:
1. Terms of Service. okay, that said....


2.

I disagree. We don't know what 'non-fiction' is, so fiction readily jumps in to fill that gap. There are many authentic fictions out there, and many in-un-non-authentic non-fiction stories. We accept what we 'want' to accept. If we don't, it creates cognative dissonance. Most people will do whatever is necessary (notice I didn't say healthy or right) to pacify that dissonance.

We are faced with likely possibilities and unlikely possibilities every time we open a book, turn on the TV, surf the internet, or talk to a stranger or acquaintance. There are many reasons why people will spread mis-information, and sometimes they may not even be aware they're doing it. What we face every day in loosely postmodern terminology, is a plethora of disconnected signs with indeterminate meaning.

This is probably little different to any other time in history. Before the spread of media to the general public, 'truth' was dictated by those in dominant positions, such as representatives of the nobility or the church. Today we all have access to a vast array of information puporting itself to be fact. We also live in a time where film and photographs can be simply manipulated by even basic users of technology, and where anybody can publish evidence that has the potential to reach across the globe within moments.

Lance Quazar said:
This is better written than 99.9% of KOTCS. Bravo, Montana!

A scene sadly deleted from the movie, which would have added a little more to the character of Spalko. A genuine Soviet test for telepathy...
 

Gabeed

New member
Pale Horse said:
I disagree. We don't know what 'non-fiction' is, so fiction readily jumps in to fill that gap. There are many authentic fictions out there, and many in-un-non-authentic non-fiction stories. We accept what we 'want' to accept. If we don't, it creates cognative dissonance. Most people will do whatever is necessary (notice I didn't say healthy or right) to pacify that dissonance.

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, but maybe I should make it clear that I'm talking about solely movies in this context. When we watch Raiders of the Lost Ark, or Independence Day, or Avatar, we might wish we were such worlds/stories were non-fiction, but we know they are fictional. Movies about aliens come out all the time, and the common movie-goer doesn't suddenly open their mind to aliens existing when they see a movie like "The Fourth Kind." I mean, they might think about aliens afterwards, but they aren't going to change their worldview, or their mind. Movies aren't persuasive in that way, as they are seen as fictional entertainment, a temporary escape from the real world.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
A scene sadly deleted from the movie, which would have added a little more to the character of Spalko. A genuine Soviet test for telepathy...

Oh, it's from the script? I thought you wrote it. Heh.

(y)
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
You haven't seen Inception, have you?

Gabeed said:
...Movies aren't persuasive in that way, as they are seen as fictional entertainment, a temporary escape from the real world...

I'm stretching a little from this thread, to be sure. And to be true to the O.P. a look into where art bleeds into life and back again would be a good thread elsewhere.

But for an example of what I mean, look at another film that took on a life of its own. Jaws. The reason that this fictional story worked in this non-fictional world is that more of the collective audience have an empirical evidence of a Great White.

When you are dealing with something like ghosts (Paranormal Activity) or aliens (Signs) or the occult (Blair Witch) it's less convincing to a greater number of people. But is it any less real?
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Matt deMille said:
To finish, in regards to my "telekinetic powers", I never claimed telekinesis. That is moving objects remotely. Get your facts right if you're going to accuse me of inventing things.
Whoa! I NEVER accused you of inventing your experiences nor did I even insinuate the idea. All I did was ask a simple question and you're taking it the wrong way.
Matt deMille said:
And these are not "powers". That's a word I'm sure you chose to deliberately try and make this sound absurd.
No, I wrote 'powers' because it is another word for energies. Don't get so easily offended, deMille!
Matt deMille said:
And, Yure, check your facts. I have not, repeated, NOT been abducted by aliens. Nor did I ever make any such claim. In fact, I emphasized in more than one post that abduction was NOT what my encounters involved. And even if I had, can't you count? Twice? I had THREE encounters...

I find it rather insulting that at this point in the forums I have to reiterate things I've previously said three, four times, and people still ignore such simple statements as "I'm NOT an abductee" and then call me an abductee-claim and thereby further call me a troll.
Back on page 5, you wrote that you had an encounter of the FOURTH kind. To Joe Public, this means an abduction. (As for 'ignoring' statements, you're doing quite a good job of that, yourself.)
Matt deMille said:
I have had indeed had Close Encounters of the 1st, 3rd and 4th kinds.

4th kind: In 2nd grade I disappeared. Literally. In the middle of the schoolyard I vanished for 3 hours. Over a hundred adults combed the grounds and could not find me. What's more, when I WAS found, it was in the middle of the search zone, which was a very sparely wooded area (line of sight was easily a hundred feet and there was little to no undergrowth). Furthermore, my skin was blue from the cold, yet I was wearing a thick (sports) jacket and it was May (the school principal and my brother found me, and they were both wearing shorts and T's because it was a warm day). I only remembered fragments of this story until it was told to me by my family. Later, I checked records (including police reports) and they back it up. I disappeared -- seemingly into thin air -- for hours, in a small area, and hundreds of people could not find me. I don't have any recollection what happened during those hours. To me it seemed like ten minutes. The phenomena of "missing time" associated with UFOs seemed likely, but I did undergo regression years later and did not recall anything. I'm totally left in the dark about this one.
Back on topic: So how about ol' Ezekiel and his wheel?
 

Matt deMille

New member
Stoo said:
Back on page 5, you wrote that you had an encounter of the FOURTH kind. To Joe Public, this means an abduction.

A Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind most often refers to an abduction, but not always. It means a profound contact. A CE3 is merely the sighting of a being, while a CE5 is communication. A CE4 falls in-between them. Abduction is usually the case, and originally the only use of CE4, but as other types of contacts have been recorded, they've been included in this category, because they don't really fall into 3 or 5.

To Joe Public, as you say, I guess it does mean abduction only. I guess one can't think of everything. Still, I thought I'd made it clear later when I said in no uncertain terms that I am not claiming to be abductee and that my experiences were different.

Ezekial and his wheel? One of many Biblical stories that could be a UFO. But to me, it's kind of vague what he's describing. I'm neutral on that one. The Biblical stories that are, to me, more interesting, are the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah (a nuclear blast), the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night (common UFO reports in today's climate -- called "cigar shaped" craft), and in Genesis how the "giants" came down and bore children. The original Hebrew is not "giant", but "nephilim", meaning those who came down (from the stars).
 
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WilliamBoyd8

Active member
I remember a Brazilian guy who said that a flying saucer landed near him,
a beautiful female alien emerged and had sex with him.

That is what I thought a "Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind" was.

:)
 

Paden

Member
I hope I'm not pulling this thread backwards, but I have a question for Matt (one that I hope he hasn't already answered). Regarding your disappearance during the second grade: Have you been able to discuss your behavior that day with your brother, the principal, or anyone else that saw you that day, or in the days following? You had stated that you didn't have any memory of what occurred, but did any of the people that found you ever indicate that you said anything notable or unusual, or that your behavior (aside from the shivering in warm weather, of course) was notably strange or different? I'm genuinely curious.
 
Pale Horse said:
When you are dealing with something like ghosts (Paranormal Activity) or aliens (Signs) or the occult (Blair Witch) it's less convincing to a greater number of people. But is it any less real?
Ah perception...

A brother in an alien mask and an alien can in someways, be the same thing.
 

Matt deMille

New member
Paden said:
I hope I'm not pulling this thread backwards, but I have a question for Matt (one that I hope he hasn't already answered). Regarding your disappearance during the second grade: Have you been able to discuss your behavior that day with your brother, the principal, or anyone else that saw you that day, or in the days following? You had stated that you didn't have any memory of what occurred, but did any of the people that found you ever indicate that you said anything notable or unusual, or that your behavior (aside from the shivering in warm weather, of course) was notably strange or different? I'm genuinely curious.

I appreciate your question, Paden. No worries about "pulling the thread backwards". Even if I hadn't answered this (I haven't), I wouldn't mind, as it's a good question.

I didn't immediately (the following few days) talk to anyone much at all. I was pretty weirded out and just glad to be safe. Though I didn't recall anything, my body was pumped with adrenaline and fear, sort of like waking up from a nightmare. However, when I did talk to people about it later, their reactions were very mixed. Mostly, predictably, they just talked like kids that age will (ex: "Man, that was scary . . ." etc.) The few perceptive folks did ask why I was so scared. To them, I was just next to a tree. I honestly couldn't tell them. I've had repressed memories before of earthly things, such as falling into a swampy lake, so I know how the mind can immediately shut things out that it doesn't want to process. So, when these folks asked *why* I was scared, I honestly couldn't tell them. I didn't know why. I certainly do not recall anyone reporting my saying anything unusual.

Interesting question. I can't really ask my brother these days (he's become a skeptical, rebellious fool who hates my whole family), and I imagine the principal is now passed on (he was an old guy even 30 years ago). If I get the chance, I'll ask my friends that were around that day. Maybe they'll remember something. Doubtful, but it's worth asking. Thanks for the idea!
 

Stoo

Well-known member
WilliamBoyd8 said:
I remember a Brazilian guy who said that a flying saucer landed near him,
a beautiful female alien emerged and had sex with him.

That is what I thought a "Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind" was.
Another flashback to 1978! My friend & I used to look at his dad's "Playboy" magazines and one had a photo article of a "Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind" between a guy and some blue, alien chick.:eek:
Paden said:
I hope I'm not pulling this thread backwards,...
This thread is more about Matt deMille than it is about Ancient Aliens, so don't worry about it, Paden.:p Forgot to say, Welcome back to The Raven!:hat:
Matt deMille said:
...the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah (a nuclear blast),...
Gomorrah with an 'o'.;) I've heard of this idea before where it attempts to explain why Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt.
Matt deMille said:
...and in Genesis how the "giants" came down and bore children. The original Hebrew is not "giant", but "nephilim", meaning those who came down (from the stars).
This short-lived thread may interest you: Nephilim and Archeology

Re: Your 2nd grade 'disappearance'.
1) Why were you wearing a thick, sports jacket on a warm day when other people were dressed in T-shirts & shorts?
2) If you don't count this story as an abduction, exactly what does it have to do with aliens?:confused:
 

Bjorn Heimdall

Active member
How did ancient man know things about the stars we are only (re)discovering today? Such as native Americans knowing about the Pleiades hundreds of years ago?

This is a quote from page 2 but I'd like to clear this up before I read any further. Why wouldn't the native Americans know about the Pleiades? They are easily visible with the naked eye.
 

Matt deMille

New member
Stoo said:
This thread is more about Matt deMille than it is about Ancient Aliens, so don't worry about it

Hey, Stoo. I didn't make this thread about me. I TRIED to talk about ancient aliens. It was the thread-hijackers and immature mud-slingers who made it about me by calling me crazy, etc. Defending myself is not ego. I have to defend my position in order to defend the material I speak about. Later in the thread, people asked me about myself. I answered. Again, that was not my intention for this thread, so don't try to imply that it is.

Stoo said:
This short-lived thread may interest you: Nephilim and Archeology

That thread has the same problem so many other forums do: The skeptics announce they are right. They say ancient alien theorists have no evidence. That's silly. The evidence is there. Certainly there's just as much evidence for ancient aliens as there is for conventional history's claim to the same monuments and mysteries. Problem is, mundane "explanations" were given to these monuments and mysteries long ago, and became institutionalized, so they're difficult to challenge, but if looked at objectively, their evidence is at least as lacking as alien origins. The best example is that the Great Pyramid is a tomb. Where's the proof that it's a tomb? There isn't any. But British explorers and Egyptian mystics (no bias there at all, no, nada) said it was a tomb centuries ago, and that's what went into textbooks, so it must be right, right? It's like Columbus discovering America. He didn't. But textbooks have said that ever since Irving made it a fanciful story and people liked it. It became institutionalized, an entrenched belief, and thus difficult to get people to admit has no basis, like most orthodox claims that "counter" the ancient alien topic. It's easy to say "the ancient alien theory has no evidence because history books back me up", but the history books are faulty at best, often padded with suppositions and biased interpretations which are only now accepted as "fact", and not because of due-diligence of science, but because their stories were laid down long ago and uncontested for too long. The "evidence" which backs the foundations of conventional history could easily be just as good of proof of ancient aliens if the latter story came first.

Stoo said:
1) Why were you wearing a thick, sports jacket on a warm day when other people were dressed in T-shirts & shorts?
2) If you don't count this story as an abduction, exactly what does it have to do with aliens?:confused:

I was wearing them because I was, like most boys that age, silly. My parents were pretty easy-going and let me wear what I wanted to wear. Peer pressure said "sports are good" so I wore a sport-themed coat. Plus, temperatures didn't bother me much. Still don't. I went with the "cool" factor over the comfort factor. Which makes it all the more weird that I, who was never hot or cold, was suddenly freezing.

And it has to do with aliens because it's part of a larger picture. We humans like to live in a little bubble blown out of a Cross-shaped bubble-blower of BS. We think we're the center of the universe and the apple of God's eye. Thus, any notion that we're NOT the center of existence's attention makes us uncomfortable. My "slipping out of time" opened my eyes to a larger picture, one which conventional thinking does not support. It enabled me to have a more neutral grounding, an objectivity that others do not, to call it as I see it rather than try to fit my experiences into any preconceived notion of "real". And who knows? Since I'd already encountered non-humans by this point in my life, maybe this had something more to do with them. Obviously, my memory of the incident are repressed. Maybe they were there. I don't rule that out.

Bjorn Heimdall said:
This is a quote from page 2 but I'd like to clear this up before I read any further. Why wouldn't the native Americans know about the Pleiades? They are easily visible with the naked eye.

Hi, Bjorn. Good to have you here, and good question. Many Native American peoples knew more about many celestial bodies (the Pleiades among them) that are not visible to the naked eye. Star counts, orbits, satellites, etc. Some are indeed visible, true, but some are not. And even knowing one mystery unobservable by naked sight begs the question how they knew it. Someone had to tell them, or they had to posses the technology to observe it themselves. Since their possessing the technology is doubtful (their own history does not speak of it), it's more likely someone told them. Could it have been another civilization in humankind's ancient past? Perhaps. Could it have been aliens? Perhaps. I lean toward the latter, however, as the same legends of the Americas say this information was given to them by the "star people".
 
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Gabeed

New member
Matt deMille said:
The best example is that the Great Pyramid is a tomb. Where's the proof that it's a tomb? There isn't any.

Except that there was the sarcophagus found inside, the cartouche in one of the chambers above the burial chamber, and the fact that all the other pyramids in Egypt, including the two next to the Great Pyramid, are also tombs. There are also the small pyramids adjacent to the Great Pyramid dedicated to Khufu's queens and mother (I'm using my Ancient Egypt reference by Oakes and Gahlin as a source). The pyramids in Sudan are tombs. Pyramids are an evolution from the mastaba, as I said in my previous post on this:

Gabeed said:
Firstly, there are no pyramids before the 3rd dynasty, and a mistake of that nature is suspect as to how much you've really thought about this. Secondly, while the process of building the pyramids themselves is not certain, we see the transition quite clearly. It's not like the pyramid was suddenly invented by Cheops (the first of the Great Pyramids pharoahs)--the first true pyramid was built by his father, Sneferu, and one of the pyramids that Sneferu built, "the Bent Pyramid," is a testament to the "trial and error" that pyramid-making went through (hardly implies an extraterrestrial presence). And in the 3rd dynasty, we see the step pyramids, which are a logical evolution from the mastaba, which were the tombs used by earlier pharoahs (not pyramids).

Later on, we see tons more pyramids, they just aren't as big as those of the 3rd dynasty, which was seemingly more wealthy and certainly experienced longer reigns than the norm. Not to mention that pyramid-building just hearkened to grave robbers--one of the real reasons why it was abandoned in later dynasties.

Your statements smack of a lack of context. I don't want to give the impression that "only if you're in a special club can you be an authority on ancient civilizations," as I admire laymen who research for themselves, but wouldn't archaeologists who have spent their entire careers studying a specific civilization be more qualified and more knowledgeable than a journalist like Graham Hancock, since they know the minor details about the civilization and have a better idea of the context? I mean, let's be honest, ancient astronaut people are generalists. And before you start the whole "THEY'VE SWORN TO UPHOLD THE UNHOLY LIE OF THE STATUS QUO AND WE MUST OPEN OUR MINDS" talk or the "THEY'RE TOO AFRAID FOR THEIR CAREERS TO TALK" talk, I'd like to add that archaeology is a very competitive and intense field, with a great desire to come up with new information and to upset the previous lines of thinking. The good archaeologists, though, won't say anything unless they have enough proof--the reason why new theories are accepted with such scrutiny is because the current lines of thinking have been scrutinized greatly themselves.

And I've seen textbooks which briefly discuss the Norse colonization. Don't get me wrong, high school history textbooks are often lacking. I imagine, though, that the fact that medieval/Renaissance Europe never really acknowledged/realized the Norse discovery of America resulted in a paradigm that the voyages by Columbus were the true beginning of the age of discovering and later colonizing America.
 
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Matt deMille

New member
Gabeed said:
Except that there was the sarcophagus found inside, the cartouche in one of the chambers above the burial chamber, and the fact that all the other pyramids in Egypt, including the two next to the Great Pyramid, are also tombs. There are also the small pyramids adjacent to the Great Pyramid dedicated to Khufu's queens and mother (I'm using my Ancient Egypt reference by Oakes and Gahlin as a source). The pyramids in Sudan are tombs.

The "sarcophagus" is just a stone box, with no lid, either. And too deep to be a sarcophagus. No sarcophagus in Egypt is even remotely like it. It is plain and unadorned. More of a pool or baptism tub than anything. Egyptian sarcophagi are lavishly carved and decorated. This one is as plain as a cereal box. You'd think the one buried in the greatest pyramid EVER would have a grand sarcophagus, not this simple stone box.

The rest of the Great Pyramid is equally plain. No writing anywhere (except the one tiny bit of MIS-SPELLED graffiti that was "coincidentally" found when funding was about to be pulled for lack of discovering tomb-evidence).

All the real Egyptian tombs are decorated floor-to-ceiling. The Great Pyramid is the total opposite. No writing. No pictures. Nothing.

No body or funerary decorations or treasure of any kind were ever found within the Great Pyramid. And don't save "grave robbers" -- When the Great Pyramid was opened (with dynamite), the passages were so heavily sealed no grave robber could have ever opened them (it took dynamite, after all).

There is no record at all in the extensive Egyptian records of the Great Pyramid being built as a tomb, mentioned as a tomb, etc.

The pyramid exists, yes, but there IS NO EVIDENCE that it was built as or ever used as a tomb. In the same manner skeptics like to attack UFOs, there simply is no evidence other than the claim of Egyptians and Egyptologists. But when UFO witnesses report a UFO, all they have is their claim, and they are scorned. Why should we treat the "Great Pyramid is a tomb" assumption any differently? Where is the hard evidence? If you want to say ancient aliens has no evidence, to show you, then I say show me the proof the Great Pyramid was a tomb. Show it. Bring it. Not the wimpy "Egyptologists say so and I've got no other argument than the dogmatic bias history books". No, show me the body. Show me the records. Show me the burial treasures. Show me the hard evidence you oh-so easily demand of ufologists.

In fact, all the evidence says the Great Pyramid was NOT a tomb. If it were, it would have floor-to-ceiling writing like all other Egyptian tombs, it would be mentioned in the thousands of years of records as being a tomb like the others are, it would have had a BODY in the TOMB like the others had.

Just because there are small, poorly built pyramids next to the Great Pyramid means nothing. Years ago, I went to Highgate Cemetery outside London, the "Victorian Valhalla", built in the 19th century. Yet I saw a tombstone dated 1995. Someone just loved the cemetery so much they wanted to be buried there. Fine. Cool. But does that one grave mean the cemetery was built in the 1990s? Of course not. And just because there are crappy, wannabe (great) pyramids next to THE Great Pyramid doesn't prove anything except that the Egyptians wanted to emulate this great monument. It doesn't prove they built it or ever entered it.

Most likely the ancients found this amazing monument, understandably admired it, and then tried to duplicate it. But they couldn't. It's building technology was beyond them. Else, why don't we have two or three or ten pyramids equal to the Great Pyramid? If anything, pyramid technology should have ADVANCED, not receded with successive dynasties. Our skyscrapers keep getting taller, after all. Human nature is pack-animal, based on outdoing each other, and nobody had the egos or resources to match "gods" (as Pharaohs were deemed to be). You can't just ASSUME they didn't have the resources. That's an assumption, not science, not based on evidence. If they did it once, they had the means to do it again. But they didn't. They didn't even come close. I.E. they couldn't. Someone else made the Great Pyramid for purposes other than a tomb.

Gabeed said:
Your statements smack of a lack of context. I don't want to give the impression that "only if you're in a special club can you be an authority on ancient civilizations," as I admire laymen who research for themselves, but wouldn't archaeologists who have spent their entire careers studying a specific civilization be more qualified and more knowledgeable than a journalist like Graham Hancock, since they know the minor details about the civilization and have a better idea of the context? . . . I'd like to add that archaeology is a very competitive and intense field . . .

That is a big assumption as well. Just because archeologists spend more time at something doesn't mean they're better at it. After all, I can't get any decent tech support from MicroSoft's overpaid career guys, yet a kid a third their age huddled in his mom's basement who builds his own computer can answer me directly and clearly (and not charge me $40 bucks). Or Bill Gates himself? How did this 20-something kid make something the old computer guys couldn't dream of? (if he actually did, but that's another story) Surely the old computer guys, who started building the things when Gates as an infant, had a head-start time-wise, and surely the budding computer industry was "competitive" and filled with people looking for new discoveries and break-out concepts. Yet Gates trumped 'em all.

Human history is filled with outsiders and amateurs showing the old dogs new tricks. Historians and scientists are the most common people to be turned upside-down. After all, why do scientific labs hire young, new talent? Maybe they have ideas the old guys don't have, even with 30 or 40 years more experience. I go on on forever on this one, but I'll sum it up: Just because Graham Hancock didn't go to a college for archeology or spend most of his life in the field doesn't mean he couldn't have found the right answers simply by looking in new places and new directions.

Gabeed, you make another huge assumption (and mistake) by putting your money on mainstream guys just because they're at it longer or are "more competitive". Maybe it's the competitive nature of archeology that holds them back from true discoveries. After all, being "competitive" means operating within the established rules of the game, in this case, orthodox, dogmatic Egyptology. Look at how professional sports are played. Football is a good example. Same plays every time. Nothing new. Nothing daring. Because most humans don't have the balls to risk their place in the game by putting all the chips on the table and going for a risky move.

Yet inspired "amateurs" do.

"Non-scientists" like Graham Hancock DO what scientists SHOULD be doing. They look at new ideas. They look at evidence from ALL fields. They go where the evidence leads, not where the establishment says it SHOULD lead. Graham Hancock doesn't have an Egyptologist's reputation to lose. He has no risk for pursuing and publishing ideas outside the box. Maybe that's why he gets the real story.
 
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Gabeed

New member
Matt deMille said:
The "sarcophagus" is just a stone box, with no lid, either. And too deep to be a sarcophagus. No sarcophagus in Egypt is even remotely like it. It is plain and unadorned. More of a pool or baptism tub than anything. Egyptian sarcophagi are lavishly carved and decorated. This one is as plain as a cereal box. You'd think the one buried in the greatest pyramid EVER would have a grand sarcophagus, not this simple stone box.

Oh grand, you think all sarcophagi are like King Tut's. The first sarcophagi (which we see over 1000 years before King Tut) are deep and made of stone, looking much like the one found in the Great Pyramid. You don't even see sarcophagi with artwork until the 6th dynasty. Check the sarcophagus of Teti on google images, it comes a few hundred years after Khufu and it still is essentially a big hunk of rock. I'd post it here, but it won't work for some reason. So here's Khafre (4th dynasty):

Khafre's sarcophagus
images

imgres




Matt deMille said:
All the real Egyptian tombs are decorated floor-to-ceiling. The Great Pyramid is the total opposite. No writing. No pictures. Nothing.

Again, you're thinking of later tombs. Where is the extensive artwork in Khafre's tomb, or Menkaure's? Or Djoser's? Or Sneferu's? Yes, there are some hieroglyphics in some of the pyramids, but there ain't much.

Matt deMille said:
No body or funerary decorations or treasure of any kind were ever found within the Great Pyramid. And don't save "grave robbers" -- When the Great Pyramid was opened (with dynamite), the passages were so heavily sealed no grave robber could have ever opened them (it took dynamite, after all).

We have no idea when they were sealed . . . grave robbers could have been in the pyramid before it was sealed.

I've already given you your hard evidence. The sarcophagus, the cartouche, and the hundreds of other pyramids which you seem to forget about every time I bring it up.

Matt deMille said:
Most likely the ancients found this amazing monument, understandably admired it, and then tried to duplicate it. But they couldn't. It's building technology was beyond them. Else, why don't we have two or three or ten pyramids equal to the Great Pyramid? If anything, pyramid technology should have ADVANCED, not receded with successive dynasties.

What do you mean they "tried to duplicate it?!" Khafre's pyramid is a mere 3 meters smaller than the Great Pyramid. They basically did duplicate it. And as for "pyramid technology," well, there was a new dynasty, and I've already discussed how there was . . . .

. . .oh God. This is just so fruitless. All you're doing is talking out of your ass. It's just like the "Tire" post. I would be so much more willing to hear out the ancient alien folks if they had even a working knowledge of the cultures they were talking about. Instead, we get people like you who don't do any research, don't bother with history or chronology, and demonstrate perfectly the concept of ignoring the larger context and looking for what you want to see. You're either an idiot, insane, or both. Of course, I already had my suspicions of that, but it still shocks me every time you make a new post and look so foolish. It's like watching a gorilla trying to play piano, banging his head against the keys, all the while blaming the piano and the musicians for his ineptitude.
 

Matt deMille

New member
Gabeed, you ignore people at least as much as you accuse others (me) of doing.

To elaborate, I was being generous saying The Great Pyramid, when in fact ALL THREE are suspect. They form the Orion's Belt of the sky projection, another thing not at all mentioned in Egyptian records, how the three great pyramids match Orion's belt in proportion to the Nile/Milky Way Galaxy.

And you didn't address even half my statements. You are the one saying you have proof. As others have said (so rudely) to me in this very thread, to be scientific, to be "right", you have to have 100% proof. Anything less is merely speculation. Well, how come you can't offer 100% then? "We don't know when the pyramid was sealed"???? Um, isn't that just a wee bit important in the argument of its being a tomb or not? And you suggest grave robbers were inside it before it was sealed and then accuse me of not knowing the history of the culture I speak of? Have you even looked at the Great Pyramid? Check a cross-section of its design. It was sealed by massive stone slabs that fell into place as part of its building design, indeed during its CONSTRUCTION. Somehow I don't believe they would have gone unnoticed.

Hey, there's a good one: Can you find anywhere in records from ancient Egypt where there is a map or cross-section depicting the INTERIOR layout of the Great Pyramid? Surely they would know what it was since they built it. Or, perhaps, just perhaps, such a record doesn't exist, because they didn't know, because they never entered it?

You're right, this IS fruitless. Except it's the other way around. You came on strong initially in this thread, throwing insults at me, and thusly your ego will simply not allow you to back down in the face of a reasoned argument. With you, this isn't about facts or even debate. It's about ego. Maybe if you hadn't started the thread with your bad attitude (a good lesson for the future), you wouldn't have so much to defend and so might be willing to listen to reason. Others on this thread and I have made peace, privately, in email. I've proven I can choke it down and admit my errors. I've made some. So have they. But you, no, you're going to continue to loudly proclaim you are right and I am wrong because you can't bear the humility. It wouldn't BE humiliating if you hadn't thrown all these insults out. YOU raised that ante. You. Now you're trapped by it. To that end, you act the ultimate hypocrite, accusing me of the exact same flawed thinking --assumptions, arrogance, etc. -- that you yourself are guilty of.

At one point I said I wasn't even going to acknowledge your posts anymore. For the benefit of the thread I have tried. I have really tried. But as you said yourself, it's fruitless, so I'm not going to regard your post anymore unless another person references it. The thread is there for others who are more reasonable to read. I'm made my statements on behalf of your posts. You say it's fruitless. So do I. So why would you bother to post anything further on this thread for any reason (other than ego)? Do us both (and probably others) a favor and just stop posting. Simple.
 

Gabeed

New member
No. I refuse to let you weasel your way out by making giant posts with more terrible lines of questioning and thoughts about how persecuted you are. If you bounce around like that, and I continue to get frustrated to how fooled you are by the ancient alien proposers, we'll never get anywhere.

Let's address this more methodically, and revisit the sarcophagus (your first point). How can you reconcile your views that the "sarcophagus is so unique and not a sarcophagus," and that all sarcophagi resemble King Tut's (are adorned, and whatnot), with the information I gave to you that other sarcophagi of the early dynasties are similarly deep, stone, and unadorned? Information that it took me mere seconds to find online, I might add?
 
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