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Old 07-27-2010, 08:06 PM   #51
Yure
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I've been reading a lot of (and about) Hawass in preparation to a trip to Cairo I took in April (managed to get into the Great Pyramid too ). He's rated as one of the two or three best egyptologysts in the world according to... well... him. I do admire his passion and I do believe he's quite educated on the matter, but Egypt as far as I could see (been there twice, I'll be back to Cairo in a couple of weeks on my way to Thailand) is still quite undeveloped in many, many ways. I'm talking about welfare, quality of life, urban and social development. When you're Secretary General of archeology in a country like Egypt you can't, for the sake of knowledge, research and history, afford to keep a nationalist profile and be a media hog for your personal gain. It affects archeology and culture. He should oppose the conservative bias of Egyptian government and open to true international funding and peer research instead of monopolizing the field and deniying European and American researches that could unveil much more than we actually know.
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:30 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Yure
I've been reading a lot of (and about) Hawass in preparation to a trip to Cairo I took in April (managed to get into the Great Pyramid too ). He's rated as one of the two or three best egyptologysts in the world according to... well... him. I do admire his passion and I do believe he's quite educated on the matter, but Egypt as far as I could see (been there twice, I'll be back to Cairo in a couple of weeks on my way to Thailand) is still quite undeveloped in many, many ways. I'm talking about welfare, quality of life, urban and social development. When you're Secretary General of archeology in a country like Egypt you can't, for the sake of knowledge, research and history, afford to keep a nationalist profile and be a media hog for your personal gain. It affects archeology and culture. He should oppose the conservative bias of Egyptian government and open to true international funding and peer research instead of monopolizing the field and deniying European and American researches that could unveil much more than we actually know.

I couldn't agree with you more. But Hawass owes his position, his money and "fame", to the party line, so he'll never challenge it. He even makes a fool of himself often when doggedly defending long disproven beliefs (the Great Pyramid being a tomb, for example). He's a tourist attraction, plain and simple. I think Hawass needs to get a sandwhich board that reads "System cog. Will lie for money" and stand outside the Sphinx.

There's a great deal to be learned from the Giza site. Hawass is the front man in a systematic repression of any unorthodox views. The real problem is the government behind him, but as the public figure he is, Hawass should really be using that position to open doors, not keep them closed.
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:32 AM   #53
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I love watching this guy, he flips out so much! And his show shows that archaeology is actually exciting, not all toothbrushes and dust.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:00 AM   #54
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He even makes a fool of himself often when doggedly defending long disproven beliefs (the Great Pyramid being a tomb, for example).


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Old 08-12-2010, 01:07 AM   #55
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Now, to be fair, RA...that was posted a few weeks ago, before Matt admitted that he may have been wrong about the fact that pyramids were built to be tombs.

As for Hawass...I still say he's an arrogant self-promoter, whether that's what the position requires or not. It's certainly refreshing to see that the television series doesn't seem to be white-washing him, at least in what I've seen of it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:18 AM   #56
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Now, to be fair, RA...that was posted a few weeks ago, before Matt admitted that he may have been wrong about the fact that pyramids were built to be tombs.


Oops-- right, right. Didn't see the date.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Perhilion
I love watching this guy, he flips out so much! And his show shows that archaeology is actually exciting, not all toothbrushes and dust.

He does indeed flip out alot. I used to hate him for that (he'd go especially berserk when someone like Hancock would ask him about alternative history), but I've come to think he's not as bad as all that. Too much of a self-promoter, certainly. Sometimes I thought his true calling would have been as a heel-manager for some big Egyptian pro-wrestler. Imagine him with a digital WWF logo (I stopped watching it so it's still WWF to me) behind him, flailing his arms and barking into the camera about how his Pharaoh is going to crush and destroy his opponent. He's so well practiced at his interviews and promos that I think he could easily dance between overzealous-silliness and venomous-spite (he does this anyway when anyone presents evidence contrary to his party-line). Then he could finish glaring into the camera.

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Originally Posted by ResidentAlien
Oops-- right, right. Didn't see the date.

One would think that, when you insult another poster and are then corrected by a Moderator, you might apologize. Oddly, I don't see that here. Something I'd like folks to keep in mind when reading anything this guy says about me.

Last edited by Matt deMille : 08-12-2010 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:33 AM   #58
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One would think that, when you insult another poster and are then corrected by a Moderator, you might apologize. Oddly, I don't see that here. Something I'd like folks to keep in mind when reading anything this guy says about me.


Jesus Christ, you are such a tool. No, seriously. A tool. You expect an apology for that?

No, you just want to make a scene.


Shove it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:26 AM   #59
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No, you just want to make a scene.

There's a lot of that going around: fellas, you've all calmed down a little. Try to keep it that way, eh?
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Yure
I've been reading a lot of (and about) Hawass in preparation to a trip to Cairo I took in April (managed to get into the Great Pyramid too ). He's rated as one of the two or three best egyptologysts in the world according to... well... him. I do admire his passion and I do believe he's quite educated on the matter, but Egypt as far as I could see (been there twice, I'll be back to Cairo in a couple of weeks on my way to Thailand) is still quite undeveloped in many, many ways. I'm talking about welfare, quality of life, urban and social development. When you're Secretary General of archeology in a country like Egypt you can't, for the sake of knowledge, research and history, afford to keep a nationalist profile and be a media hog for your personal gain. It affects archeology and culture. He should oppose the conservative bias of Egyptian government and open to true international funding and peer research instead of monopolizing the field and deniying European and American researches that could unveil much more than we actually know.

Here's the problem, Yure: In Egypt, "International funding" for archaeological research is nothing compared to tourist dollars. Hawass is a great promoter not just of himself (whether you can stand him or not, you have to admit he's very watchable), but of Egypt and Egyptian history. So he's keeping interest (and tourism) alive. As for unveiling much more than we actually know, there are plenty of Egyptian antiquities and mummies gathering dust in the storerooms of dozens of universities and museums around the world. There are research opportunities right there, and Hawass doesn't oppose international teams coming in to do their research. He just doesn't want to see all the "goodies" going to other countries.

I lived in Egypt for two years and studied at the American University in Cairo. There are international research teams all over the country, but they're lost in a sea of tourists, and those tourists are spending big bucks to see the sites Hawass is so passionate about.
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:23 PM   #61
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Here's the problem, Yure: In Egypt, "International funding" for archaeological research is nothing compared to tourist dollars. Hawass is a great promoter not just of himself (whether you can stand him or not, you have to admit he's very watchable), but of Egypt and Egyptian history. So he's keeping interest (and tourism) alive. As for unveiling much more than we actually know, there are plenty of Egyptian antiquities and mummies gathering dust in the storerooms of dozens of universities and museums around the world. There are research opportunities right there, and Hawass doesn't oppose international teams coming in to do their research. He just doesn't want to see all the "goodies" going to other countries.

I lived in Egypt for two years and studied at the American University in Cairo. There are international research teams all over the country, but they're lost in a sea of tourists, and those tourists are spending big bucks to see the sites Hawass is so passionate about.

I am curious: Having lived in Egypt for two years and studied there, how much do you feel Hawass and others maintain the party-line in regards to orthodox Egyptology? I am interested in alternative histories and am certain that discoveries contradicting the accepted view (of Egyptology) are suppressed, either for reasons of national pride or maintaining the tourist industry, or both. What are your thoughts about that?
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:43 PM   #62
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CNN has this little feature where you can ask various celebrities and well-known individuals questions. This time it's Zahi Hawass. You can post a question to Dr. Hawass here:
http://connecttheworld.blogs.cnn.com...hawass/?hpt=T2

I wonder how he would do with Indiana Jones movie trivia?
This guy has always seemed like kind of a stubborn fool to me. I don't know the policy towards swearing here, but I'll call him that instead of the other word I've had in mind.
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:18 AM   #63
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This guy has always seemed like kind of a stubborn fool to me. I don't know the policy towards swearing here, but I'll call him that instead of the other word I've had in mind.

I'm so torn. I love that you're reluctant to swear here (you should avoid it), but am miffed that you didn't read the rules.
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:24 AM   #64
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I'm so torn. I love that you're reluctant to swear here (you should avoid it), but am miffed that you didn't read the rules.
I did read the rules. I should have phrased it better, I didn't transcribe my true feelings towards him because what would be said could be constructed as swearing. It's a technicality and I don't want to get into it. I obviously wouldn't have dropped words starting with "f"s or anything; but its a word that is sometimes associated as a swear word. I wanted to play it safe. It's something I couldn't determine if it was PG-13 or not.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:39 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Matt deMille
I am curious: Having lived in Egypt for two years and studied there, how much do you feel Hawass and others maintain the party-line in regards to orthodox Egyptology? I am interested in alternative histories and am certain that discoveries contradicting the accepted view (of Egyptology) are suppressed, either for reasons of national pride or maintaining the tourist industry, or both. What are your thoughts about that?

Well, Matt, I'm probably a bit biased, as I think 'alternative histories' are interesting and fun but I really go for the mainstream 'accepted view of Egyptology.' "History" is always changing. When I was a kid, the pyramids were built by slaves. Now they were built by paid workers. New discoveries are always putting a different spin on things. I don't think there are new discoveries that are being suppressed, though you bring up an interesting point about national pride. Much better for national pride to have pyramids built by "workers" rather than "slaves."

That said, I believe theories about ancient aliens building the pyramids simply discount the minds and abilities of ancient Egyptians. Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is usually correct. Which is more plausible: Egyptians built big ramps of some sort and hoisted stones into place to make pyramids. Or: Aliens flew down from space and levitated blocks into place to build pyramids for their new friends.

Again, on the subject of revising history, there have been different explanations about how the ramps were built. One long, huge ramp? Or a small ramp that wound around the pyramid? Missing kings, what pharaoh was related in what to some other pharaoh, etc., etc. All questions with answers changing every day.

I do think maintaining the tourist industry is one major reason Hawass pushes so much for the return of Egyptian antiquities like the Rosetta Stone and bust of Nefertiti. And national pride should always be taken into consideration when someone is studying his or her own country's past.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:53 PM   #66
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Goodeknight: can't argue on his passion and on the tourist money... but if that's the scenario (and very plausibly it is), then that money gets in someone's pockets in spite of the spirit of research and archeology. The Cairo Museum is extraordinary, and yet some areas of it are treated like a dumpster where priceless antiquities are put on rough displays, in dusty rooms and in dim light just because they don't look as appealing and shining as a Tutankhamon funerary mask. And how many years passed since the first time Egypt government promised a new facility for the museum? Any major European and American museum with tickets (and sometimes not even those), lendings and good fundrising managed to improve dramatically in short periods of time, and yet one of the most beautiful museum in the whole world still makes you feel like you're stepping in a late 1800 setup. That's a shame.

By the way, I'm jut back (again :P) from Cairo and the nice guys from Egyptair let me keep a copy of their Horus magazine which featured an article by Hawass on the Sphynx. He talks pompously about what he did there, how he brought Clinton, Obama and Hollywood stars in the Sphynx tunnels, gives a slash here and there at the "pyramidiots", but also says some interesting stuff. If someone's interested I can scan it and post it here.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:22 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Yure
Goodeknight: can't argue on his passion and on the tourist money... but if that's the scenario (and very plausibly it is), then that money gets in someone's pockets in spite of the spirit of research and archeology. The Cairo Museum is extraordinary, and yet some areas of it are treated like a dumpster where priceless antiquities are put on rough displays, in dusty rooms and in dim light just because they don't look as appealing and shining as a Tutankhamon funerary mask. And how many years passed since the first time Egypt government promised a new facility for the museum? Any major European and American museum with tickets (and sometimes not even those), lendings and good fundrising managed to improve dramatically in short periods of time, and yet one of the most beautiful museum in the whole world still makes you feel like you're stepping in a late 1800 setup. That's a shame.

By the way, I'm jut back (again :P) from Cairo and the nice guys from Egyptair let me keep a copy of their Horus magazine which featured an article by Hawass on the Sphynx. He talks pompously about what he did there, how he brought Clinton, Obama and Hollywood stars in the Sphynx tunnels, gives a slash here and there at the "pyramidiots", but also says some interesting stuff. If someone's interested I can scan it and post it here.

Yeah, I'd like to see a scan of that article posted.

You're totally right about the Egyptian Museum. On one hand, I love the feeling of stepping back into the 1800s. Such a cool clutter of antiquities. But it's a lousy place for a priceless relic to call home. The mummy room is state of the art, but just about everywhere else the cases are old and the rooms are hot. Some stuff would crumble to dust if anyone tried to touch it. I believe it was at the Egyptian Museum that an 8' statue fell over in its case after its feet decayed to the point of collapse.
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:37 AM   #68
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a guy Zahi Hawass

I was going to mention about his show but it seems to me someone beat me to the punch. Concerning Dr. Hawass only knowing about him from a occasional article and his times he has been on coast to coast am I thought of him as a pompus ass but after seeing him on the history channel I can see I was wrong I think that if many archeologist or historians such as I would defend historical monuments and archaeological finds as Dr. Hawass does in our interest and fields many areas of the historical sciences would be saved and preserved. I do understand that he is not unless he has the cold hard facts open to other ideas concerning the Egyptian people and the origins of there cultural heritage and while he may not posses as Dr. Einstein said the imagination he does have the rules he lives by as Indy says Archeology is the search for facts and Dr. Hawass exemplify this and to that I tip my fedora to him. I don't see Dr. Hawass as Indy like he reminds me more of my inspiration William Harper Littlejohn of Doc Savage fame a highly dedicated and tenacious Archaeologist who surprisingly enough specialization was Egypt. Well all for now I am as of this time working on a research paper on the Tarim Mummies of the Tarim Basin in Central Asia once I finish it and send it to my school I will cut and paste it for your edification.
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:03 PM   #69
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Here's the article, sorry for the delay. I hope the images aren't too big for the forum, since it's an article I figured it would be more easily readable for the users this way instead of a series of links/thumbnails.

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Old 09-06-2010, 07:03 PM   #70
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Hawass also had a fascinating article this month in the National Geographic regarding using DNA evidence to almost completely confirm that Tutankhamen was the son of Amenhotep VI, aka Akhenaten, and Akhenaten's sister. King Tut was an incest baby.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:14 AM   #71
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Yup! You preceded me... it's a great article with many wonderful photos, I have that too if someone wants a scan (but it would take its sweet time since it's 28 pages).
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:30 AM   #72
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Hawass also assisted in getting the mummy of Ramses I returned to Egypt after a museum bought the Egyptian collection from a museum of the bizarre in Canada at Niagra Falls. Good going there.
Someone recently told me about this story. Apparently it was at Niagara's "Freaks of Nature" (which I visited as a kid so I must have seen the mummy) for decades before it was moved to somewhere in Atlanta, Georgia to be studied & verified as Ramses I.

Dr. Hawass flew over to check it out and confirm if it was bona-fide or not. Supposedly, Zahi made a splashy entrance, walked up to the mummy, stuck his nose up close, took a whiff and said, "Yes, it's real. This is Ramses."
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Old 09-12-2010, 09:20 PM   #73
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Here's the article, sorry for the delay. I hope the images aren't too big for the forum, since it's an article I figured it would be more easily readable for the users this way instead of a series of links/thumbnails.

Thanks for sharing that article, Yure! Good read.

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Hawass also had a fascinating article this month in the National Geographic regarding using DNA evidence to almost completely confirm that Tutankhamen was the son of Amenhotep VI, aka Akhenaten, and Akhenaten's sister. King Tut was an incest baby.

Yeah, it is interesting. I just started reading the other day, and it seems like a fuller examination of that special they recently had on the History Channel. Sorry, Discovery Channel.

Check out the previous thread here.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:52 AM   #74
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Here's a pair of articles from Der Spiegel that I ran across earlier.

Egypt's Avenger of the Pharaohs

The Legacy of Howard Carter: Did King Tut's Discoverer Steal from the Tomb?
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:26 PM   #75
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Zahi Hawass

Zahi is soooooo awesome!....he is so into what he does!.....Thats how I want to be like if i was an Egyptologist.......You never know..someday.....I might become one........and maybe....even work with Hawass! He Rocks
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