holy grail, does it exist?

hffan2000

New member
hey guys,
i was just thinking about the legends of king arthur and was wondering about your opinions on the grail. do you think it exist ? if so which chalice that is talked about do you think it is?
 

bob

New member
That is a very wide ranging question

If you are asking about the mythic cup then it does not exist but there are Medivial Forgeries of it, and old Celtic cups that it was based on.

If you are talking about a cup that Jesus (or Yeshu) drank out of then that is another matter but it wouldnt really be the holy grail.

The Grail is a Christian-Celtic myth where Christianity has been brought together with ancient Celtic mythology about chalices.
 
I doubt it

Where is there anything in the New Testament that says God or Jesus imparted special magical powers to an inanimate object? I think the whole idea is "second best" theology. Sort of Christianity without the Christianity drawbacks.

People who can't figure out the underly message want something wonderful they can acquire that asks nothing in return.

These magical items, the Holy Grail, the Spear of whatsis, pieces of the True Cross, give the possessor power and really nothing is asked in return. All you have to do is find it, and get your hands on it. Things are simple.

The underlying theology of Christianity is you have to do some things and be some things to benefit from the program. And material possessions (which these are) are not very important.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
I'd like to respond with a nice combination of 00Kevin's sarcasm, bob's enlightening comments of Celtic mythology, and Broomhandle's theology insights.

But all those things have been responded with, so I'll just say I agree with them.
 

00Kevin

Indyfan
I wasn't being sarcastic, you assume too much

this is saracastic:

(monty python homage)"You guys are ALL Wrong, It's in the castle of ahhhhhhhh........." (/monty python homage)
 

bob

New member
00Kevin said:
I wasn't being sarcastic, you assume too much

this is saracastic:

(monty python homage)"You guys are ALL Wrong, It's in the castle of ahhhhhhhh........." (/monty python homage)

Your Mother was a hampster and your Father smelt of Elderberies, and you must bring me a....Shrubbery!!
 
I remember reading some King Arthur legends about the Holy Grail. Sir Galahad (my other love :p)delivered the grail back to the heavens. Of course then he DIED! Grrr...the always want to spoil the guys I love...
 

hffan2000

New member
actually sir galahad saw a vision of christ when he drank from the grail and chose to go up to heaven instead of staying in this world
 

00Kevin

Indyfan
(monty python humor)

No, this is how Sir Galahad died:

(walks up to bridge keeper of the bridge of dead)

"STOP! WHo aproaches the bridge of dead must answer me these questions 3, there the other side, he sees"

(I know, a bit off)

"ask me the questions"

"Sir Gallahad"

(now remember, if he gets 1 of the 3 questions wrong, he is thrown into the gorge of eternal perril)

"what is your quest?"

"I seek the Grail"

"What is your favorite color?"

"Blue......NO! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

(is tosses into gorge---LAVA!!!!)

BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!

okay, sorry, WAY TOO OT

never again
 

hffan2000

New member
nice one 00kevin lol i'm a big monty python fan myself. lol but back on topic do you think it's possible the knights templars actually found the grail and hid it?
 

Kill Cavalry

New member
Who isn't a Monty Python fan? Just got it on DVD, and boy am I satisfied! "Now you see that violence is inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm bein' repressed!"

Anywho, about the Grail...It is true that it is Celtic mythology melding with Chrsition theology, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. I doubt that man will ever find the Grail if it still exisits on this earth and I doubt that Arthur and his knights would actually have found it and hidden it or sent it to heaven, I feel the same way about the Templar.

However, I believe something for nothing is supported by Christianity. Miracles are also reputed to happen to bad people, converting them. They do nothing, but they are saved. The true cross is said to have raised a man from the dead. He did nothing, in fact could do nothing, because he was dead. Yet he was raised by this artifact. I believe the stance of Christianity is "You'll get it in the end." Saints, prophets, or whoever you believe in, rarely lead happy and full lives. Often they are martyred in horrible ways. St. Sebastin was shot with many arrows only to live. He returned to the man who tried to kill him and tried to convert him. Sebastin was then beaten to death. And that's one of the happier endings to a Saint. And at the same time, madmen rule countries, conquer empires, and slaughter thousands at a whim, only to die of a disease at a ripe old age. In the end, after death, is when Christianity really kicks in. What you did on earth determines what you deserve. Religious artifacts, if you believe in them, merely exist to demonstrate God's power and reaffirm faith in your religion.
 

bob

New member
Kill Cavalry said:

However, I believe something for nothing is supported by Christianity. Miracles are also reputed to happen to bad people, converting them. They do nothing, but they are saved. The true cross is said to have raised a man from the dead. He did nothing, in fact could do nothing, because he was dead. Yet he was raised by this artifact. I believe the stance of Christianity is "You'll get it in the end." Saints, prophets, or whoever you believe in, rarely lead happy and full lives. Often they are martyred in horrible ways. St. Sebastin was shot with many arrows only to live. He returned to the man who tried to kill him and tried to convert him. Sebastin was then beaten to death. And that's one of the happier endings to a Saint. And at the same time, madmen rule countries, conquer empires, and slaughter thousands at a whim, only to die of a disease at a ripe old age. In the end, after death, is when Christianity really kicks in. What you did on earth determines what you deserve. Religious artifacts, if you believe in them, merely exist to demonstrate God's power and reaffirm faith in your religion.

Hmmmm even if you accept that that relics have some sort of power which is very suspect as the evidence is extraordinaryly dodgy. If you accept a lot of the stories of Saints then you have to probably accept stories written at a similar time which incorperate Dragons, Leprecorns etc. Let us face it that most of the accounts were written by Monks who coincidentally collected a lot of their revenue from pilgrims looking at relics!

The Holy Grail is a purely mythical artifact, it has never been found at all, that is the essential difference between 'real' relics such as pieces of the supposed true cross etc and this.
 

Tim

New member
As for whether the true grail does actually, or ever did in fact exist is a little far fetched. Like some of the others said, where's the evidence? And where do we get our information, but from the people making their living off of such relics.
The Grail is about faith, true faith. Not just in God, but in the eternal. It is something tangable that those who find faith a difficult concept.
Going slightly off track, for a very good read on the subject of the Grail are the Bernard Cornwell books Harlequin and Vagabond.
 

Genevieve

New member
About the grail...

The Grail that was featured in indiana jones refers to the grail cup thta christ drank out of at the last supper, before he was betrayed and crucified. The idea that the relic exists and has such powers is more of a Hollywood/Celtic myth idea. Catholics used to big on relics though... But they didnt believe that they poseessed that kind of power... Immortality is a myth that is carried though many cultue's religions... Even the spanish were looking for the fountain of youth in america. So, in answer to the question... The grail probably does not exist and if it did it would be quite hard to identify it as Christ's cup in 100% certainty.

and in reply to Tim... In the movie the grail encapsultes the idea motif of faith... In reality, it has nothing to do with faith in Christ or God... You were right in that account. But many times people that do not know about Christ or Jesus (like in the reference to christ as a carpenter), and they may misinterpret that point.
 

Tim

New member
I see what your saying, but I think to some extent the Indiana Jones films, from an archaeological point of view, work on the understanding that people watching the film already have a basic understanding. What I mean is, the people who are looking for the 'signs' already know where to look and what to look for. Much like bards and poets of classical greece would sing songs that their audiance would already know the story to.
You take out of these films what you put in.
And of course the films are just blerrie fantastic in all other aspects. Am I right??!
 

Tim

New member
Good stuff! Do you mind me asking, are you english. Cause it seems like everyone on here is american.
By-the-by which Indy film is your favourite? Has to be the Last Crusade, surely?
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
<small>Well, we have some Brits, but also have Dutchies, Belgians, French and Finns. (Yeah, the plague of the web are here too.)</small>
 
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