An Indy 5 Replacement for Pat Roach?

Gobi-1

Well-known member
I'd love to see Andrew Divoff return as the villain's henchman/muscle.

News_Andrew_Divoff_Mikael_Bakunin.jpg


I was thrilled to learn he was going to be in KotCS but was disappointed that his role was little more then a bit part as a Russian Soldier. It would be nice to see him come back with a part worthy of his talents.
 

Matt deMille

New member
I'd rather there be no "big guy" for Indy to fight. When Pat came out to fight Indy by the Flying Wing, it was just a great moment -- Indy beats one Nazi, then there's this huge guy -- The scene (and Indy's problems) just built on each other. I think it would have been better left as an isolated scene, not repeated in other movies.

The big Thuggee in Temple (again, Pat) kinda made sense, as Mola Ram would need some muscle as a henchman. But there was no "big guy" in Crusade, just a Nazi officer, and it worked fine. I think Indy V would benefit from a different type of "secondary villain". Maybe someone like Ray Park that Indy underestimates and then goes Darth Maul on him. Indy would have to outwit him, which would make more sense with his age.

No disrespect for Pat. In fact, all the more respect for him -- He was "the big guy", and should remain the one and only.

Although . . . if there is to be a big dude for Indy to get whooped on by, I like the suggestions I've seen in this thread so far. Some wrestlers definitely come to mind. I think Batista could be a good looking Cuban enforcer.
 

Indy's brother

New member
Matt deMille said:
I'd rather there be no "big guy" for Indy to fight........The big Thuggee in Temple (again, Pat) kinda made sense, as Mola Ram would need some muscle as a henchman. But there was no "big guy" in Crusade, just a Nazi officer, and it worked fine.

Nobody's saying that there has to be a big thug for Indy to mix it up with, just speculating on the possibilities should they go that route. Personally, I would like an homage to The Great Pat Roach by going in this direction! If nothing else, a return to form may awaken a certain feeling that is missed by some fans....
 
Col. Detritch said:
Look at Vogel. He wasn't exactly the type of man you would expect Indy to typically fight but they did, and it worked. Because he was a sadistic, opportunist who went down to the bitter end in a brutal fist fight on a tank (the best fight in the series IMHO).
How did you deduce that he's an opportunist?
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
Gear said:
Who was Pat's character in Last Crusade?

He's a blink-and-you'll-miss-him Gestapo agent in black who's briefly seen running alongside Vogel when Indy notices that Vogel is coming to board the Zepplin. In the cut footage, he briefly exchanges fisticuffs with Indy before following Indy and Henry Sr. through the scaffolding with a drunken WWI German pilot who was boasting about his past exploits to other passengers and insists on helping him take down the Americans. The duo attempts to pursue Indy and his father in a second biplane but the WWI hotshot forgets to start the engine when he unlatches the biplane from the zeppelin, causing both of them to plummet to their deaths. It's comforting to know that they at least didn't forget to include the traditional Pat Roach demise in Indy3 when scripting it. :)

All of this was shot and you can see two images from the deleted sequence here.
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Udvarnoky said:
He's a blink-and-you'll-miss-him Gestapo agent in black who's briefly seen running alongside Vogel when Indy notices that Vogel is coming to board the Zepplin. In the cut footage, he briefly exchanges fisticuffs with Indy before following Indy and Henry Sr. through the scaffolding with a drunken WWI German pilot who was boasting about his past exploits to other passengers and insists on helping him take down the Americans. The duo attempts to pursue Indy and his father in a second biplane but the WWI hotshot forgets to start the engine when he unlatches the biplane from the zeppelin, causing both of them to plummet to their deaths. It's comforting to know that they at least didn't forget to include the traditional Pat Roach demise in Indy3 when scripting it. :)

All of this was shot and you can see two images from the deleted sequence here.

The scene still survives in Rob MacGregor's novelization, so you can relive it there, too.
 

Col. Detritch

New member
Originally Posted by Von Stalhein
How did you deduce that he's an opportunist?

Well if you look at an opportunist by definition as a unprincipled, resourceful person who takes advantage of someone or something (be it a situation) for their own gain then Vogel is an opportunist. He demonstrates this in the film mainly through the way he fights. Nothing is planned. He has a tank, he uses the tank; he has a chain, he uses a chain; he has the tread, he uses the tread; he has Elsa, he uses Elsa (even if they are sided with one another). Being an opportunist just means you're smart enough to see an opportunity and take it. You may still disagree but IMO Vogel is an opportunist; just like Indy.:hat:
 
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Col. Detritch said:
Well if you look at an opportunist by definition as a unprincipled, resourceful person who takes advantage of someone or something (be it a situation) for their own gain then Vogel is an opportunist. He demonstrates this in the film mainly through the way he fights. Nothing is planned. He has a tank, he uses the tank; he has a chain, he uses a chain; he has the tread, he uses the tread; he has Elsa, he uses Elsa (even if they are sided with one another). Being an opportunist just means you're smart enough to see an opportunity and take it. You may still disagree but IMO Vogel is an opportunist; just like Indy.:hat:
This demonstrates he's somewhat resourceful. How do you know he's unprincipled though? Did he join the party and SS only after they won the elections, believing that joining whoever was in power would let him gain some power?
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Von Stalhein said:
This demonstrates he's somewhat resourceful. How do you know he's unprincipled though? Did he join the party and SS only after they won the elections, believing that joining whoever was in power would let him gain some power?

I would agree with this. Resourcefulness and opportunism are rather different things. Resourcefulness tends to be about taking advantage of physical entities in the world around you that can give you an advantage, while opportunism tends to be about using a gap in the system or some conveniently manipulable individuals to get ahead.

Belloq, perhaps Elsa, perhaps Mac...they're opportunists.
 
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