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Old 05-24-2008, 07:35 PM   #51
Stoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeh
In the trailer there is this shot of something falling from the sky.

I always thought it was something alien soaring towards the ground, but it was never used in the movie, or I kinda completely missed it twice.
It's the rocket sled. Someone also mentioned, in another thread, there is a "making of" clip of Mutt rolling on the ground with his jacket off.
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Old 05-24-2008, 09:34 PM   #52
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What was Mutt's "big moment" where he injured himself? Torn rotator cuff or something.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:28 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tigernuts
What was Mutt's "big moment" where he injured himself? Torn rotator cuff or something.
I thought he broke a nail.
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Old 05-25-2008, 07:40 PM   #54
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It was when he was fighting Spalko on the jungle chase and she cut his cheek with the sword.
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Old 05-25-2008, 11:51 PM   #55
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If anyone's interested, I'll post the significant additional scenes that appear in the novelization. Many of these were likely included in the original cut of the film. (Certain parts may have been included in the final cut as well, and I've simply gotten the different versions mixed up: novelization, comic, film. )

Here's part one:

Orellana's Death
A brief prologue where we see Orellana trying to return the skull, and being driven mad in the process. He makes it to the Chauchilla Cemetery and the "living dead" overtake him.

Yucatan Pennisula 1957
Indy is crawling beneath a Mayan city, while Mac is outside warning him that a tropical storm is fast approaching. Indy crawls toward the statue of a serpent, and ultimately falls down its mouth into an underground river. He's washed out through the side of a cliff, and uses his bullwhip to swing to safety. Meanwhile, the Russians invade Indy's campsite. When Indy finally returns, he finds everyone dead except Mac. The two are taken prisoner.

Spalko Operates
This occurs after Indy has survived the A bomb, and Spalko has returned to her base. As three top Russian officials look on, Spalko dissects the Roswell alien in a small operating room. As the officials leave, they coldly inform her that she is not to fail.

The Dean's Speech
At Indy's house, the Dean offers Indy another piece of advice. He points out that the youth are always asking, "Who will I be?", then later proclaiming, "This is who I am!". But at his age, he has begun to ask, "Who will they say I was?" This affects Indy and leads him to think about his legacy.

The Football Stadium
Just as a crucial play is about to begin, the motorcycle pursuit bursts onto the field. The quarterback, realizing the other team has backed off, launches a perfect pass. Indy ends up catching it and the crowd applauds. He then throws a pass of his own- through the car's open window and into the head of the driver. (This scene would've appeared in between the student protest and Brody's statue.)

Fortune and Glory
Prior to leaving his house with Mutt, Indy pauses to examine a sketching of Akator. He remarks to himself: "Akator. Where Oxley was taking the skull. If it exists, it would be the find of a lifetime. Make a reputation even politicians can't touch." Presumably, this would've explained how he intended to avoid further pressure from the government.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:11 AM   #56
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Part two:

Nazca Lesson on the Flight to Peru
During the flight, Mutt expresses an interest in the Nazca lines. Indy is trying to sleep, but admires the kid's interest and briefly explains them to him.

Chauchilla Cemetery
During the fight, Mutt throws his switchblade into a warrior's arm- which is then thrown back at him. This is where the still of Mutt examining the bloody switchblade occurs.

Mutt nearly falls through the floor when they enter the chamber, prompting Indy to warn him that they are on a promontory. Indy examines the conquistadors, and realizes they have been wrapped with the same material that was used in the Roswell container. This is how they remained preserved. Indy recovers the skull, and his eyes begin to glow red while staring into it.

Mutt tries to snap him out of the trance, and the burial chamber begins to collapse. Mutt ends up hanging over the Nazca lines, and Indy uses the dead corpse of Orellana to pull him back up. They race to escape as the rest of the chamber collapses. (This might've been a good scene to keep, since it made good use of the Nazca setting and provided a little extra action.)

Indy's Eyes of Fire
The scene where Indy is restrained and forced to stare at the skull is slightly more graphic. His eyes begin to glow red again and eventually tears of blood streak down his face.

Spalko Practices
Before leaving the camp and beginning their jungle convoy, Spalko practices her fencing in a clearing. Dovchenko secretly watches her with a mixture of respect and lust.

Spalko and Mac
One plot point is that the skull will not communicate with Spalko, which frustrates her. During the convoy, Mac notices her attempting to stare into it. He doesn't believe in the psychic nonsense and she tells him of psionic experiments the USSR has been performing.

In one, baby rabbits were taken on a submarine and systematically killed. The mother rabbit was left on the shore and monitored using an EEG. At the precise death of each, the mother registered a strong reaction. Spalko explains: "There is an organic mind-body link shared by all living creatures. If we could control that collective mind..."

Fighting in the Jungle
Spalko incorporates a lot of sexual innuendo in her fight with Mutt, teasing him about his youth. At one point, Mutt is distracted by the buttons on Spalko's top popping open.

Spalko survives the giant ants by entering an altered state, using mental techniques she has learned from the Inuits. She essentially just stands very still so the ants will not perceive her as a threat. There is no tree or ants building a bridge to reach her.

Marion's Plan Revealed
After landing the duck in a tree, the method to Marion's madness is explained. She yells to Indy: "Saw the tree earlier! When I was driving up! Cliff's not that high at this spot!"

The Duck Ride
As they head downriver, Mac tries to introduce himself to Marion. Indy tells him to back off- having already noticed him eyeing Marion in the camp. As they near the falls, a piranha is washed into the duck and bites Mutt.

Indy realizes that Oxley isn't referring to the waterfall as "the way down"- but the road that runs beside it. Indy instructs everyone to jump from the duck as they go over the falls, as a way of increasing their odds of surviving.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:17 AM   #57
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Chauchilla Cemetery

I agree this could have been incorporated, the rest is fine out. Cool stuff to read in the books and other sources though.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:25 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
If anyone's interested, I'll post the significant additional scenes that appear in the novelization.

Thank you! Interesting stuff. Is it just those, or are there anymore changes?

I gotta say, I really love the sound of some of those scenes. I wonder how many of them were actually filmed... not that it matters, though, 'cause I don't see Spielburg going all Ridley Scott and releasing a Director's Cut of KotCS. Sadly.

Thanks again for posting this. I haven't had a chance to pick up a copy of the book yet.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:26 AM   #59
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Those sound really cool...well, most of them. I wish they had been used.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:29 AM   #60
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wow a lot of that stuff would have been great in the film. at the very least a moment of explanation as to why Marion knew about the tree, the extra Spalko stuff sounds great.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:31 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHegele
at the very least a moment of explanation as to why Marion knew about the tree

But the movie does explain it. We see her see it as she drives along the edge of the cliff.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:31 AM   #62
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With Marion and the tree, when she drives to the edge of the cliff and stops while Indy is fighting, she looks over the edge at the tree and gets an "aha" look, so it sort of is explained.
EDIT: d'oh, beat me to it.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:47 AM   #63
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Part three:

Indy and Marion
Indy squeezed and later held Marion's hand during the duck escape, and here they lie beside each other after surviving the waterfall. Marion kids him about being tired, and says it's no wonder, considering the way he's always running all over the world. This prompts Indy to reply: "It ain't the mileage, honey, it's the years."

Climb To Akator
As the group climbs the moutain to the waterfall entrance, Indy warns Mutt to be careful: "Remember kid, three points of contact at all times. Safety first!" Mutt replies by pointing out the obvious: How's any of this safe, man?

Meanwhile, Spalko collapses as a strong vision overtakes her. She realizes that Indy has found the entrance to Akator, and uses a tracking device to confirm her hunch. (Mac doesn't leave homing beacons, and instead is only carrying one in his pocket.)

The Obelisk
It takes a long time for Indy to investigate the pyramid and solve the riddle of the obelisk. This allows Mutt time to take in the spectacle of the lost valley. Once inside, Marion is left hanging on a receeding step. Indy tells her to drop, and promises he will not let her down (implying he is through letting her down in life). She falls into his arms, similar to how she did in the Well of Souls.

The Lost City
Indy realizes the entire city is functioning as a massive power generator- via water turbines and copper tubing. He uses the skull to open the inner chamber, but it works by reversing its magnetic charge. When the crystal skeletons come to life, Marion remarks how beautiful their eyes are. But Indy is watching Marion instead. When she asks why he isn't paying closer attention, he tells her: "I've found what I was looking for."

Spalko's Death
The 13 aliens spring to life, but do not join into one. Instead, they stare down at Spalko and ultimately close in on her. Her eyes burn black and she screams: "I CAN STILL SEE!" She then leaves her body and floats overhead, watching her own destruction. Her ghostly spirit is soon pulled up into the dark vortex, followed closely by her own corpse.

Mac's Downfall
Indy's group is separated in the labyrinth of corridors. Mac eventually catches up with him, and Indy considers breaking his nose again. He then remembers that Mac has saved his life on several occasions, and realizes that survival is more important than anything else. They continue to flee, but the vortex catches up to them. Mac's pockets are weighted down with gold, causing Mac to be drawn backwards. Indy catches Mac with the whip, and Mac watches as Indy risks his life for someone who's been a lousy friend. He frees himself to save Indy, and laughs at the thought of flying literally into the unknown with pocketfuls of gold.

The Vanishing Vortex
Instead of a UFO, the vortex rises above the city as flying debris spins all around it. The vortex slowly takes on an odd shape, becomes two dimensional, and finally is as thin as a photograph's edge. Then, it simply blinks out of existence.

Oxley explains about the "space between spaces", and demonstrates by holding his hands in an "X" formation- then inverting them. This is a gesture which the alien had made to them in the hidden chamber.

Brody's Bible
After stopping to inspect the lettering being painted on Indy's new door, the Dean rushes into an office. He talks to a photo of Marcus, and says that he wished Marcus were there to see the day- but perhaps he is. The Dean removes a Bible that had belonged to Marcus and races to the College chapel. The ceremony has been on hold for the Bible, and Indy isn't amused. This also prompts Oxley to comment to the Dean about "how much time is spent waiting."

Last edited by James : 05-26-2008 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:52 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
The Lost City

So apparently beneath the pyramid there was an entire city, though in film it seemed like there were only a few chambers to me. Huh.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:53 AM   #65
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Grave yard

In the book 'The Complete making of Indiana Jones' They write that they had built the hydraulic tilting disk along with hydraulic trap door. So the set was built to film the trap door scene. The grave yard scene was anticlimactic so I hope the whip scene, Mutt throwing the knife, and the trap door with the chamber disintegrating behind them as they escape is included in a deleted scenes disk so I can edited them into my own "Extended version" thus making me a happier Indy 4 fan!
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:55 AM   #66
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I would've liked to seen the scenes with Marion. It wouldn've made the wedding seem more developed.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:01 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |ZiR|
Thank you! Interesting stuff. Is it just those, or are there anymore changes?

There are a few others:

We have Spalko and Mac briefly talking as they prepare to leave the Area 51 hangar, and Dovchenko being picked by his men after the rocket sled ride.

There's also one I forgot to add, where Indy and Mutt stake out Indy's house. After Indy is confident that it's safe, they go in and research Oxley's letter. But Indy makes a point that they not stick around too long.

Another Marion scene occurs after they climb up the waterfall. Indy jumps first, and yells for the others to follow. Marion leaps first- right into his arms.

It's also worth noting that Indy and Marion are slightly more affectionate to each other after the jungle chase. In addition to holding hands, Marion is frequently moving to stand beside Indy or lock her arm in his.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:08 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |ZiR|
So apparently beneath the pyramid there was an entire city, though in film it seemed like there were only a few chambers to me. Huh.

This would've probably been my biggest wish for the film. Reading the book, it feels like Indy and his group have discovered a vast underground complex. Just a single matte painting would've been enough to convey this onscreen. It would've also contributed greatly to the idea that they were actually in a giant mothership.

Other tidbits:

At one point, Indy and Mac must dodge aside to avoid a giant water turbine that is rolling down a corridor.

The snake scene is much shorter, and Indy doesn't ask for Mutt to "call it a rope". It ends with him claiming, "I think my toe just touched the bottom". Marion and Mutt then scream at him to grab the snake, and he does.

The cemetery fight is slightly longer, as is the Ugha warrior encounter. At one point, Indy stops and uncoils his whip along the length of the stairs behind him- waiting to defend against the threat. But when a huge number burst through the doorway, he retreats after the others.

Last edited by James : 05-26-2008 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:16 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by |ZiR|
But the movie does explain it. We see her see it as she drives along the edge of the cliff.

ahhhh, thanks guys. now i like the scene more.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James
There's also one I forgot to add, where Indy and Mutt stake out Indy's house. After Indy is confident that it's safe, they go in and research Oxley's letter. But Indy makes a point that they not stick around too long.

Nice... I was always bothered by them simply going back to his house, although the KGB-agents might very well be waiting there for them.

I really hope some of these scenes end up on the DVD... well, first of all I hope that more than just a handful of them were filmed at all.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:49 AM   #71
Jim Tigernuts
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Most of these scenes would have been really good additions…*seems like they were probably included in the rough cut, but removed after the negative press about the film being over 2hrs and 20 min. I wish they'd kept them in.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:06 AM   #72
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I don't think the film was ever 2h20m - that was a misunderstanding based on someone knowing the film came on 7 reels (each of which holds about 20 mins of film) and doing a generous calculation...

And I wouldn't take the scenes from the novelization as proof of anything being filmed - stuff may have been planned but Spielberg is famous for spontaneously changing or even deleting intended scenes, while the film novelization authors often add stuff to pad out the book or make stuff that works visually more apparent on the page.

Take the Marion and the tree moment - this may have been scripted but Spielberg obviously felt it was enough just to see her look, or the author may have added her lines to make it clearer on the page... we don't know.

I doubt few if any of these scenes exists in filmed state - Spielberg tends to be very tight on his shoots, especially those for Indy.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:39 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTheHutt
I doubt few if any of these scenes exists in filmed state - Spielberg tends to be very tight on his shoots, especially those for Indy.

Yes, I tried to only include things which felt like they were taken from the script- not necessarily filmed. This is why I included the dialogue and those that are supported by concept art.
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:54 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stork
In the book 'The Complete making of Indiana Jones' They write that they had built the hydraulic tilting disk along with hydraulic trap door. So the set was built to film the trap door scene. The grave yard scene was anticlimactic so I hope the whip scene, Mutt throwing the knife, and the trap door with the chamber disintegrating behind them as they escape is included in a deleted scenes disk so I can edited them into my own "Extended version" thus making me a happier Indy 4 fan!
Robert

And I would love a copy of that Extended cut if you made one! That would be awesome to see!
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:27 PM   #75
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Was there supposed to be a scene that takes place in New Mexico? I was reading the article "Indiana Jones and the Computer Genrerated Jungle" and saw this "...which finds Jones traipsing from New England to New Mexico, Peru and the Amazon. Working on the Indy franchise for the first time was a daunting task for the low-key effects guru." I also saw New Mexico listed as a place Indy goes in KotCS in a number of other places.
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