Listen for yourself..Obama's Socialized medicine in his words

emtiem · Sep 14, 2009

Short Round said:
Anyway, this paragraph is what's wrong with so many people now days. They think people who work their asses off should pay for other people who refuse to work or work as hard. These people want the government to run their lives because they themselves cant.

So you disagree with the whole concept of taxes, then? You refuse for any of your money to be spent on policing, schools, roads, sanitation etc. that you don't personally receive? I'm curious: how do you make that work?

WillKill4Food · Sep 14, 2009

HovitosKing said:
I say if it's good enough for our military, it should be good enough to offer as an alternative for the rest of us. God bless America, and God bless our troops. You disagree?

And many military families, including every one that I have spoken to, claim that the military health system for soldiers and their families is terribly unsatisfactory, with long waits and substandard care. Is this what we want for all of America? Why feed money into a system, and risk national bankruptcy, for car that isn't all that beneficial?

[And I realize that the above argument was made based off of anecdotal evidence... Do you know of any statistics that seem to indicate that military families tend to find their care especially satisfactory or unsatisfactory?]

Short Round · Sep 14, 2009

emtiem said:
So you disagree with the whole concept of taxes, then? You refuse for any of your money to be spent on policing, schools, roads, sanitation etc. that you don't personally receive? I'm curious: how do you make that work?

No. I disagree with how high taxes are. It should be way lower than it is now. But for the government to take what it is from people who work their asses off is absolutely wrong. People earned that money. I don't mind helping people out a bit, but I don't want to be forced to at the extent the government is taking at the moment.

HovitosKing · Sep 14, 2009

WillKill4Food said:
And many military families, including every one that I have spoken to, claim that the military health system for soldiers and their families is terribly unsatisfactory, with long waits and substandard care.

That's a damned lie, and I'm speaking from first-hand knowledge of the system. Not alleged hearsay. The military system isn't perfect, but it's more than on par with the private system. And because it's under the public domain, it's subject to government-mandated training and quality of care programs that private hospitals generally refuse to implement due to cost/compliance issues. Think about that...a healthcare system with an emphasis on patient care and quality improvement rather than on simply turning a profit for its key stakeholders (which none of you are).

HovitosKing · Sep 14, 2009

Short Round said:
No. I disagree with how high taxes are. It should be way lower than it is now. But for the government to take what it is from people who work their asses off is absolutely wrong. People earned that money. I don't mind helping people out a bit, but I don't want to be forced to at the extent the government is taking at the moment.

Write your congressman, and spare us. BTW, you owe so much to this country (for niceties such as life, liberty, freedom, etc.) you couldn't pay off your debt if you paid in 90% of your income in taxes for life. You get what you pay for in life, and we live in a pretty damn good country, considering. Stop all your damn whining. You wouldn't last a day in some of the horrid countries out there in the big, bad world. You're paying moderate taxes to be sheltered from the **** of the world. Show some gratitude.

Short Round · Sep 14, 2009

HovitosKing said:
Write your congressman, and spare us. BTW, you owe so much to this country (for niceties such as life, liberty, freedom, etc.) you couldn't pay off your debt if you paid in 90% of your income in taxes for life. You get what you pay for in life, and we live in a pretty damn good country, considering. Stop all your damn whining. You wouldn't last a day in some of the horrid countries out there in the big, bad world. You're paying moderate taxes to be sheltered from the **** of the world. Show some gratitude.

Why don't you take your head out of your ass? I know how much I owe to my country. I owe it to my country to fight for the principles it was founded upon. I owe it to my country NOT to stand by and allow socialism to take over. I owe it to my great country to make sure it remains a great country.

See, your whole vision of America and it's people is skewed. I live in this country because it was founded upon great principles and those are the principles I follow because I'm a patriotic American. Moderate taxes? Obviously you have NO idea what you're talking about. I show gratitude to my country every day by being a good citizen and standing up for the ideals this great country was founded on. Maybe you should do the same. Show some gratitude and learn the history of your country.

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."-Benjamin Franklin

indyartist · Sep 15, 2009

Short Round said:
Why don't you take your head out of your ass? I know how much I owe to my country. I owe it to my country to fight for the principles it was founded upon. I owe it to my country NOT to stand by and allow socialism to take over. I owe it to my great country to make sure it remains a great country.

See, your whole vision of America and it's people is skewed. I live in this country because it was founded upon great principles and those are the principles I follow because I'm a patriotic American. Moderate taxes? Obviously you have NO idea what you're talking about. I show gratitude to my country every day by being a good citizen and standing up for the ideals this great country was founded on. Maybe you should do the same. Show some gratitude and learn the history of your country.

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."-Benjamin Franklin

I agree with everything you say. Government healthcare would suck. The quality will not be there. Just look at other countries with socialized medicine. There are waiting lists for months and months or even more to get surgeries people need. The system here may not be perfect but it is the best in the world. Whenever someone DOES have an emergency, they ARE treated here in this country no matter what. With all the insurance companies and drug companies here, it creates competition. Competition brings out the best in the product and that also means better doctors and overall healthcare. When the government runs the healthcare, how good do you think that'll be? My guess not very good. Look what they did to social security. It's nearly bankrupt and the USPS is hurting right now too. About the only thing the government does do well is our armed forces which is the most important to keep us safe in our homeland.

monkey · Sep 15, 2009

WillKill4Food said:
And many military families, including every one that I have spoken to, claim that the military health system for soldiers and their families is terribly unsatisfactory, with long waits and substandard care. Is this what we want for all of America? Why feed money into a system, and risk national bankruptcy, for car that isn't all that beneficial?

[And I realize that the above argument was made based off of anecdotal evidence... Do you know of any statistics that seem to indicate that military families tend to find their care especially satisfactory or unsatisfactory?]

Willkill, I agree with Hovitosking on this. Your evidence is wrong. The military health care system for military families is great! It's probably one of the best benefits that the military provides for its people.

What you might be confusing this issue with is the scandalous situation with the barracks of soldiers being treated for war wounds at Walter Reed Hospital. That was a housing issue, not a health care issue.

Also, ....Note to Shortround: Not all people that 'make' a lot of money, 'work their asses off'. Bernie Madoff made a lot of money. He didn't 'work his ass off' (though he might be selling his ass now for cigarettes).

Those greedy corporate executives that destroyed the economy and awarded themselves multi-million dollar severance packages didn't 'earn' their money.

Stop defending the wealthy as if they all 'work their asses off'. I'll tell you who 'works their ass off', the people behind the counter at the fast food restaurant, the factory worker in the assembly line trying to make his quota, the guy driving the delivery truck, the guy hammering roofing nails in 100 degree heat. And many of those people DON'T have health care, because they can't afford it.

Short Round · Sep 15, 2009

monkey said:
Also, ....Note to Shortround: Not all people that 'make' a lot of money, 'work their asses off'. Bernie Madoff made a lot of money. He didn't 'work his ass off' (though he might be selling his ass now for cigarettes).

Those greedy corporate executives that destroyed the economy and awarded themselves multi-million dollar severance packages didn't 'earn' their money.

Stop defending the wealthy as if they all 'work their asses off'. I'll tell you who 'works their ass off', the people behind the counter at the fast food restaurant, the factory worker in the assembly line trying to make his quota, the guy driving the delivery truck, the guy hammering roofing nails in 100 degree heat. And many of those people DON'T have health care, because they can't afford it.

Absolutely false. Do you think these executives got to be executives by sitting on their asses? No, they didn't. They worked EXTREMELY hard to get to those positions. Way harder than the guy behind the fast food counter. These people, whether you like them or not, did earn their money.

RedeemedChild · Sep 15, 2009

monkey said:
Willkill, I agree with Hovitosking on this. Your evidence is wrong. The military health care system for military families is great! It's probably one of the best benefits that the military provides for its people.

What you might be confusing this issue with is the scandalous situation with the barracks of soldiers being treated for war wounds at Walter Reed Hospital. That was a housing issue, not a health care issue.

Also, ....Note to Shortround: Not all people that 'make' a lot of money, 'work their asses off'. Bernie Madoff made a lot of money. He didn't 'work his ass off' (though he might be selling his ass now for cigarettes).

Those greedy corporate executives that destroyed the economy and awarded themselves multi-million dollar severance packages didn't 'earn' their money.

Stop defending the wealthy as if they all 'work their asses off'. I'll tell you who 'works their ass off', the people behind the counter at the fast food restaurant, the factory worker in the assembly line trying to make his quota, the guy driving the delivery truck, the guy hammering roofing nails in 100 degree heat. And many of those people DON'T have health care, because they can't afford it.

Amen brother! Give the poor man a rest and extend an olive branch to the Middle Class and Main Street. We work just as hard as the supposed wealthy. Furthermore most of the rich people did not get their money honestly and some of them walked on the backs of others to become wealthy.

On the other hand it is good to remember that there are some rich people who actually did work for their money and I commend them. One thing I really like Obama for is the fact that he is striving to create a level playing field for everyone.

If there is a basket of eggs don't permit people to selfishly horde the eggs in a basket, instead take the eggs and put them into a communal basket from which the whole community can benefit from the eggs and thus there is a fair chance at everyone getting a shot at an egg. Instead of five eggs for Johnny, fifty for Harold and 1 for Sue Dillard there are plenty of eggs for everyone.

HovitosKing · Sep 15, 2009

Short Round said:
Absolutely false. Do you think these executives got to be executives by sitting on their asses? No, they didn't. They worked EXTREMELY hard to get to those positions. Way harder than the guy behind the fast food counter. These people, whether you like them or not, did earn their money.

LMAO. Have you ever met an executive? Promoted to one's level of incompetence, promote troublemakers away, any of these phrases ring a bell? Let me enlighten you (isn't that a joke...you, enlightened). You are just full of second-hand, recycled "knowledge", rumor, innuendo, and misinformation. Upper management is the most hands-off, out-of-touch, opportunistic bunch of twits imaginable (in the overwhelming majority of cases). They do nothing, they're figureheads. Like your George W. Bush. I can't think of a single individual who knows less, yet speaks more, than you about those things which you obviously, obviously, know absolutely nothing about from first-hand experience. Incredible how idiots are granted both the loudest mouths and most depleted brains. Tell me how some fool whose company lost billions last year has "earned" a $100 million severance bonus? You're like some sad, deluded pauper defending the sovereign rights of a drunken Lord to walk all over you, even to your own demise. It's funny, but also very sad, that such brainlessness exists in those at the higher end of the evolutionary chain.

HovitosKing · Sep 15, 2009

WillKill4Food said:
[And I realize that the above argument was made based off of anecdotal evidence... Do you know of any statistics that seem to indicate that military families tend to find their care especially satisfactory or unsatisfactory?]

Not exactly what you asked for, but this article presents the opinions of those who know the healthcare system, as opposed to those who know what Fox News said last night and this morning:

http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home

In terms of the statistics you asked for, healthcare statistics are horribly slanted. For example, someone about to die in the OR is quickly transferred to another unit (e.g., ICU) to avoid the paperwork and fallout of having died in the OR. This is pretty typical, albeit a questionable act. All to slant the statistics. So I would wager that, if they do exist, the statistics are a product of those who maintain and report them. As far as consumer opinion, that would simply reflect how someone feels about the quality of care received rather than the actual quality of care received (a proxy that is actually a bad indicator of true care quality). In some cases a person may have a good sense of the quality of care received, but really it's too complex an issue to rest solely on the patient or families' perceptions. A friendly doctor who keeps the family informed and has a team of nurses and techs who seem (and probably are) very competent is not necessarily providing optimal care. Alternately, a soldier who dies on the operating table of severe combat trauma did not necessarily receive sub-optimal care because he died. Perceptions of the patient's family, however, may indicate the reverse.

Short Round · Sep 15, 2009

HovitosKing said:
LMAO. Have you ever met an executive? Promoted to one's level of incompetence, promote troublemakers away, any of these phrases ring a bell? Let me enlighten you (isn't that a joke...you, enlightened). You are just full of second-hand, recycled "knowledge", rumor, innuendo, and misinformation. Upper management is the most hands-off, out-of-touch, opportunistic bunch of twits imaginable (in the overwhelming majority of cases). They do nothing, they're figureheads. Like your George W. Bush. I can't think of a single individual who knows less, yet speaks more, than you about those things which you obviously, obviously, know absolutely nothing about from first-hand experience. Incredible how idiots are granted both the loudest mouths and most depleted brains. Tell me how some fool whose company lost billions last year has "earned" a $100 million severance bonus? You're like some sad, deluded pauper defending the sovereign rights of a drunken Lord to walk all over you, even to your own demise. It's funny, but also very sad, that such brainlessness exists in those at the higher end of the evolutionary chain.

You are an idiot. You have bought in to the bs. You actually believe wealthy people have it easy and don't work hard. I never said the executives deserved the bonus money. I said they deserve the money they earn from working. Most of these people worked their asses off to become head of these companies. You know nothing if you think they just got the job by doing
nothing. You should really shut up now because you show your ignorance everytime you write something.

HovitosKing · Sep 15, 2009

Short Round said:
You are an idiot. You have bought in to the bs. You actually believe wealthy people have it easy and don't work hard. I never said the executives deserved the bonus money. I said they deserve the money they earn from working. Most of these people worked their asses off to become head of these companies. You know nothing if you think they just got the job by doing
nothing. You should really shut up now because you show your ignorance everytime you write something.

Unlike you, I work in corporate America. I see with my own eyes, and advise the buffoons that make millions off of morons like you. I provide examples to illustrate my points, you provide inane rants that reveal a simplistic, uni-dimensional mind. You are unable to hold your end of a debate, so you tell others to shut up. You're the very definition of idiot, my friend. Someone who stares at Fox "News" for hours on end like a veritable retard and sucks up the garbage that pundits and politicians feed you so you can fight their hopeless battle for them. Congratulations on serving the noble purpose of demonstrating how far behind the rest of us the missing link really is.

HovitosKing · Sep 15, 2009

Short Round said:
Most of these people worked their asses off to become head of these companies. You know nothing if you think they just got the job by doing nothing.

You know, it just dawned on me; perhaps the disconnect here is the result of differences in perception. Maybe to someone like you, the day-to-day routine of being a corporate executive (or comparable work) seems like working one's ass off. Maybe to you, it would be. For example, throwing a football 40 yards looks like an amazing feat to any child; however, this action constitutes rather forgettable performance in the eyes of any adult. You over-complicate that which they do, because your naivety disallows you to understand it. You can't help it, you just don't have the capacity to understand things and perform as others do. So you justify it to yourself as an amazing feat.

You can't change the nature of your being, it's hard-wired into your DNA. You're actually incapable of recognizing and processing fact and truth, running instead off of inputs like soundbytes and talking points that appeal to emotion rather than logic (a more primitive and less evolved mechanism for understanding the world around us which requires far less brainpower to integrate data into consciousness). You know, information that's been chewed up and digested a bit for you, like a baby bird sucking worm mush from its mother's beak.

As such, we're all wasting our time even acknowledging your existence. As E.F. Schumacher said, “Any fool can make things complicated, but it requires a genius to make things simple." A parting suggestion: stop trying to think of executive work as a complex phenomenon. It isn't, and you wouldn't have the bandwidth to process it anyway if it were.

I won't pick on you anymore. It's just getting embarrassing for you. Feel free to post another limp response at your earliest convenience.

Short Round · Sep 15, 2009

HovitosKing said:
Unlike you, I work in corporate America. I see with my own eyes, and advise the buffoons that make millions off of morons like you. I provide examples to illustrate my points, you provide inane rants that reveal a simplistic, uni-dimensional mind. You are unable to hold your end of a debate, so you tell others to shut up. You're the very definition of idiot, my friend. Someone who stares at Fox "News" for hours on end like a veritable retard and sucks up the garbage that pundits and politicians feed you so you can fight their hopeless battle for them. Congratulations on serving the noble purpose of demonstrating how far behind the rest of us the missing link really is.

Haha, you have no idea what your talking about. You provided no examples either. Maybe your just too stupid to understand people aren't just given the job of an executive of a major company without working hard. Stop drinking the kool aid the far left pundits are giving you. Try watching UNBIASED news, it'll help you understand how stupid you sound.

Short Round · Sep 15, 2009

HovitosKing said:
You know, it just dawned on me; perhaps the disconnect here is the result of differences in perception. Maybe to someone like you, the day-to-day routine of being a corporate executive (or comparable work) seems like working one's ass off. Maybe to you, it would be. For example, throwing a football 40 yards looks like an amazing feat to any child; however, this action constitutes rather forgettable performance in the eyes of any adult. You over-complicate that which they do, because your naivety disallows you to understand it. You can't help it, you just don't have the capacity to understand things and perform as others do. So you justify it to yourself as an amazing feat.

You can't change the nature of your being, it's hard-wired into your DNA. You're actually incapable of recognizing and processing fact and truth, running instead off of inputs like soundbytes and talking points that appeal to emotion rather than logic (a more primitive and less evolved mechanism for understanding the world around us which requires far less brainpower to integrate data into consciousness). You know, information that's been chewed up and digested a bit for you, like a baby bird sucking worm mush from its mother's beak.

As such, we're all wasting our time even acknowledging your existence. As E.F. Schumacher said, ?Any fool can make things complicated, but it requires a genius to make things simple." A parting suggestion: stop trying to think of executive work as a complex phenomenon. It isn't, and you wouldn't have the bandwidth to process it anyway if it were.

I won't pick on you anymore. It's just getting embarrassing for you. Feel free to post another limp response at your earliest convenience.

Haha, wow, you're pathetic.

WillKill4Food · Sep 15, 2009

HovitosKing said:
That's a damned lie, and I'm speaking from first-hand knowledge of the system. Not alleged hearsay. The military system isn't perfect, but it's more than on par with the private system.

Why don't you clarify about the extent of your personal experience with the military system? What I said was not a lie. Maybe things are different for the rest of the nation, but every military family that I know has expressed their discontent with the military system. Call it hearsay if you wish, but that doesn't change the facts.

monkey · Sep 16, 2009

WillKill4Food said:
Why don't you clarify about the extent of your personal experience with the military system? What I said was not a lie. Maybe things are different for the rest of the nation, but every military family that I know has expressed their discontent with the military system. Call it hearsay if you wish, but that doesn't change the facts.

Not to speak for HK, but I don't think he meant that YOU were lying necessarily, but that your information was very wrong. Perhaps the anecdotal evidence you have is from disgruntled members or former members of the military who would probably disparage anything and everything about the military anyway. Malcontents?....maybe not....but maybe so. I say this because:

My family and I have more than 25 years of experience with the Military Medical System. What can I say? It's the best! Absolutely positively! It blows away the civilian medical system by a long shot. And I can say this from experience with both Military and civilian health care.

I have been blessed with the privilege of utilizing the Military Medical system in different cities and different states....different services (Army/Navy), including overseas.

Military Medicine is not in it for profit. It is your Brothers and Sisters taking care of you. It's a family.

The "for profit" civilian health care system doesn't even compare.

Pale Horse · Nov 12, 2014

Bump..for perspective. A search for USMC brought me here. It's been five years. ...I'd love to reopen this wound.

Listen for yourself..Obama's Socialized medicine in his words

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