What's up with Spielberg and Kaminski?

deckard24

New member
Dust McAlan said:
I've personally enjoyed every film Kaminski has shot, and this was no exception.

I'm really getting tired of the "It didn't look/feel like the old movies!!!" It's 20 years later, there's better film technology, and we've got a different cinematographer. I mean, what, you were expecting Doug Slocombe to rise from the grave and for Harrison Ford to de-age 20 years?

Nostalgic hardcore fanboys make me ill.
First of all no one was expecting Slocombe to rise from the grave, considering he's still alive and retired... not dead!

Secondly, there might be better film technology 20 years later, but that doesn't change the fact that Spielberg used the same guy he's become the most comfortable with for the last 15 years, and tried to take his unique visual style and change it to emulate Slocombe's. That makes no sense to me, when he could have instead got a different equally talented cinematographer with a style that was similar to and complemented Slocombe's. I'm not knocking Kaminski's talents, because he's very good, but just wasn't right for this film. Where were the rich saturated colors that the original films contained? There was never a washed out, metallic, dream sequence look to the old films.

Lastly, I don't think calling this out is being a nostalgic hardcore fanboy, but instead a discerning critic of a set of films tons of people have come to love. A lot of people have gotten interested in the process of film because of Raiders and the other Indy films, and the visual continuity between all of them is obvious, unlike with KOTCS. There's a big disconnect in my opinion! Yes some shots look similar, but as a whole it doesn't feel like an Indy film asthetically!

Dean Cundey the cinematographer for Jurassic Park would have been a better choice, as would have Adrian Biddle form The Mummy films, or Shelly Johnson from Hidalgo!
 

Goodsport

Member
I agree that KotCS looked a little too "washed out", not just for an Indiana Jones film but simply for a film in general. :eek:


-G
 

Dust McAlan

New member
I could've sworn I'd read somewhere that Douglas Slocombe had passed away. My apologies.

But at 94, isn't that the same thing? :p
 

James

Well-known member
I thought it worked pretty well for something that was intended to evoke the style of a 1950's B movie.
 

deckard24

New member
I don't know why I never realized it before, but after I saw KOTCS with my wife and I mentioned the look that Kaminski brought to it, she said it might have had to do with minimizing the age of Ford! This makes perfect sense, because the softer lighting does reduce the wrinkles and age lines on Ford while knocking off a few years. I'm sure Spielberg's comraderie with Kaminski is the real reason, but still I thought this was interesting.

What I'll be curious to see, is if they do make a 5th will Kaminski be back?

Slocombe's look:
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=191.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/191.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Kaminski's look:
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=tvspot2_019.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/tvspot2_019.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
Spielberg is one of the greatest American filmmakers of all time, and Kaminski is a brilliant cinematographer, that's what's up with them. And they just made a really fun summer movie, "Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull".
 

deckard24

New member
Peacock's-Eye said:
Spielberg is one of the greatest American filmmakers of all time, and Kaminski is a brilliant cinematographer, that's what's up with them. And they just made a really fun summer movie, "Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull".
I'm a fan of KOTCS, an even bigger fan of Spielberg, and I appreciate Kaminski's talents! But can you honestly say that you don't see a big difference between those two pics? There were certain scenes and entire sequences where it wasn't so noticeable, but at other times it was just glaringly obvious!

I just would like to see Spielberg switch things up a bit, and not have the same look to all of his films!
 

MaxPhactor23

New member
Peacock's-Eye said:
Spielberg is one of the greatest American filmmakers of all time, and Kaminski is a brilliant cinematographer, that's what's up with them. And they just made a really fun summer movie, "Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull".

So do Steven and George pay you by the hour to come in here and be a drone? I'm sure they'd be honored if you jumped off a bridge for them. Please consider it. :)
 

sandiegojones

New member
Film stocks and cameras are different than they were 20 years ago. There's a lot of stuff in the film that looks like it could be pulled out of TOD or LC. It's a hard thing to match when you have a cinematographer who's style is a complete 180. This was probably a real challenge for Kaminski.
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
I agree with both camps - alot of the movie looks like the Trilogy, alot of it looks new. Personally, I really love the 'new look'. It is incredibly vivid. Real pulp magazine colors. Also reminded me of classic jungle flics like "Hatari!", "The African Queen" and "King Solomon's Mines".
 

Benraianajones

New member
I think there are parts that do look "quite like" the original films. I do know, I like how rich and clear the quality is on the intro, (after the gopher) when we get to see the blue sky and landscape as "Hound Dog" comes on. That reminds me of LC a bit - probably helped by the LC credit style. I think that bits nice.
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
Yeah, just the way the camera moves, it's pure Spielberg. That took my breath away the first time. The golden color of the valley definitely resembles the N.C. Wyeth palette of the LC opening shots.
 

deckard24

New member
It's true some shots are great and emulate the look of the old films. But in my opinion for every shot that's great and extends the continuity of the films, there's several jarring out of place shots that just feel off!
Screenshot that keep the look of the original films:
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=trailer2_001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/trailer2_001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=trailer2_040.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/trailer2_040.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Screenshots that dont:
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=trailer2_029.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/trailer2_029.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=teaser_092.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/teaser_092.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
I know what you mean by 'feeling off' if you consider the 'look' of the Trilogy to be canon. But I think one of the themes of KSC is that change is inevitable, and it's healthier to accept change than cling to the past. Opening up the 'look' is part of that, I think. And intentional. I think they kept it as close as possible, but in other parts wanted to bring something fresh & new to the series. Which jives with the themes of change.
 

deckard24

New member
Peacock's-Eye said:
I know what you mean by 'feeling off' if you consider the 'look' of the Trilogy to be canon. But I think one of the themes of KSC is that change is inevitable, and it's healthier to accept change than cling to the past. Opening up the 'look' is part of that, I think. And intentional. I think they kept it as close as possible, but in other parts wanted to bring something fresh & new to the series. Which jives with the themes of change.
I get your point, my only issue is that Spielberg made some of his greatest films with different cinematographers. Jaws, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, E.T., and The Indy series were all made over a 15 year period with different people behind the lens(Indy being the only exception because it was a series). Then from 1993 to 2008 Spielberg has exclusively used Kaminski, who has a very distinct visual style(brand) that never changes. I just don't understand why Spielberg would make so many great films with various artists, then become locked into this partnership for a huge portion of his career.

Spielberg's films with Kaminski that all look extremely similar:
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=spr.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/spr.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=2056308059_04437b4f2f.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/2056308059_04437b4f2f.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=cmiyc.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/cmiyc.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=wotw.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/wotw.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=untitled-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/untitled-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Spielberg's films with various cinematographers:
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=rotla.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/rotla.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=jaws1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/jaws1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=ET.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/ET.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/?action=view&current=ceottk.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/drjones24/ceottk.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 
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