Merrian/Indy/Abner Question.

OK, this has probably been asked before, but what is exactly Indy's history with The Ravenwoods? They never really touched on this much in ROTLA, and I was always curious as to what it was. I assumed that it had something to do with Indy dating Merrian against Abner's wishes or something. But they also hinted about a serious falling out that had something to do with some really bad thing Indy did to them. I was just curious as to what that thing was and what it was all about. Thanx.

No one really knows...we assume that a "fling" between Marion and Indy made Abner really mad so Indy left breaking Marion's heart and Abner's as well.
I have heard several theories, but I like to think of it as a part of the shadowy past that Indy has hidden from us.

Welcome to the Raven Bar, Angelus! Hope you enjoy your stay.

Welcome to the Raven, Where Paths Cross



well, aaron has it for the most part, let's touch it up a bit:

Abner was one of Indy's Teachers at The University of Chicago. Abner took indy under his wing, love him like a son, took him on several Adventures

Then Indy 'BEDED' Marion (BOND STYLE! YEAH!) and Abner got mad and hated him, tosses him out of his life

and the rest is history.....or something

who knows....

Ultimately of course if it is ever revisisted it will revolve around Abner having had faked his own death

bob said:

who knows....

Ultimately of course if it is ever revisisted it will revolve around Abner having had faked his own death

Click to expand...

Something that origianlly was going to be resolved in LC, but that storyline was dropped.
I hope that they do it in IV, however.

agreed, that would be TOPS!

they did do that in an indy comic

and on the adventure MSN group, someone was tring to get something like that

I was reading some triva for the Last Crusade and the guy who wears the fedora and gives it to young Indy is really Abner Ravenwood. I'm not sure if this is true or not but it's still interesting if that was really Abner.

It was, then they changed it. So really it isn't Abner, but a guy named "Fedora" (really that is his name in the final script and the credits). I like to pretend that it is Abner, but that is just me.

i've always thought it went this way:
marion meets indy when he comes to visit abner to ask him to come with him. marion comes along also. she's only 17 and thinks indy is her knight in shining army. she falls for him hard but indy is very skeptical about starting a relationship with his mentor's daughter. he does however start a relationship with her. while on the expedition marion gets severely injured after going to help indy and her father when they told her to stay at the camp. while she is hanging on the brink of death indy realizes he can't stand to lose her and if she comes out of her injuries whole that it would be best if he broke it off so as not to endanger her with his type of life. after she's healed and back to normal indy goes to talk to her but is stopped by abner who blames him for what happened to his daughter they argue then indy goes in to see her and breaks it off as gently as he can. after letting her down easy he leaves in the middle of the night never to return or so he thinks

Hey, "Merrian" is almost as funny as "Mulleram"!

For any Indy/Marion newbies, this subject has been touched upon many, many times before. If you want more information on it, you'll want to do a search in the Raven for threads of this nature. I would search under "Marion". You should be able to sort the hits out okay. There is a particular thread I personally started called "Marion Theories" you might like to read there as well.

I'm a pretty hardcore fan and I've never heard ANYTHING about Abner Ravenwood faking his death. Could you any of you give me any more information on this? Please cite sources where you heard about this so that as an "Indyologist" I can do a little research.

Also, why the heck would he fake his death? What's in it for Abner to do this? People usually do this because they want to escape a very bad situation or want total aninimity so they can start their lives over again as a different person. I can't imagine anything in Abner's past (humble professor) that would lead him to do such a drastic thing.

Indyologist said:

For any Indy/Marion newbies, this subject has been touched upon many, many times before. If you want more information on it, you'll want to do a search in the Raven for threads of this nature. I would search under "Marion". You should be able to sort the hits out okay. There is a particular thread I personally started called "Marion Theories" you might like to read there as well.

I'm a pretty hardcore fan and I've never heard ANYTHING about Abner Ravenwood faking his death. Could you any of you give me any more information on this? Please cite sources where you heard about this so that as an "Indyologist" I can do a little research.

Also, why the heck would he fake his death? What's in it for Abner to do this? People usually do this because they want to escape a very bad situation or want total aninimity so they can start their lives over again as a different person. I can't imagine anything in Abner's past (humble professor) that would lead him to do such a drastic thing.

Click to expand...

That bit of trivia comes from the first draft of the LC script, and I believe one of the novels. If I recall it isn't "offical" but it is one of the mysteries that makes the Indy films far more interesting then they already are.

Indyologist said:

I'm a pretty hardcore fan and I've never heard ANYTHING about Abner Ravenwood faking his death. Could you any of you give me any more information on this? Please cite sources where you heard about this so that as an "Indyologist" I can do a little research.

Also, why the heck would he fake his death? What's in it for Abner to do this? People usually do this because they want to escape a very bad situation or want total aninimity so they can start their lives over again as a different person. I can't imagine anything in Abner's past (humble professor) that would lead him to do such a drastic thing.

Click to expand...

Well i dont know about anyone else but i have had this idea of Abner faking his death for sometime....

Why?

We dont know anything about Abner really but the fact that there are shady people looking for him even years after his death might indicaite that he had other reasons of relocating to Nepal than just archaeological interest and Marion was very vague about the fate of Abner, i see quite a plausible situation in which Abner had come across something so powerful and dangerous (i.e. the next artifact) that people would stop at nothing to get it unless he were dead.

Also IF Abner is 'Fedora' then i could well imagine this guy being a bit of a scoundaral etc and capable of abandoing Marion, remember we are not dealing with just any professor this is a man that whether he was Fedora or not inspired Indy and took him under his wing.

Abners return from the dead is the only way that i can realisticly see him being dragged into the Indy IV plotline, and i think that it would make a good movie to meet Indys mentor

Also this just sounds to me too good a cliche to miss, it would be an audacious move and for me would really energise an Indy IV plotline as well as taking Indy IV back to the beginning

[Edited by bob on 10-27-2003 at 01:32 pm]

Where did anyone get the idea that Fedora was originally cast as Abner? I haven't heard that one before, either. Is this just your personal opinion?

I've always had the impression of Abner being very close and very protective towards Marion because he's his only child. I mean, his wife is dead or gone, so Marion and his work as an archeologist (especially the Ark of the Covenant, which was his constant obsession according to Marion) was all he had in life. I have a feeling he was very strict with Marion, almost a little on the possesive side.

I definately don't think he'd just abandon her. If anything, I personally feel that he simply didn't consider dying in Nepal and therefore did not think of providing some monetary way for Marion to get back to the US. This would explain her getting "stuck" in Nepal and possibly having to resort to prostitution at the Raven (at first), just so she could survive. My source for her possibly being a prostitute comes from the novelization of Raiders where she says she worked at the Raven and she says she "wasn't exactly the bartender..." I think the owner of the Raven knew she was desparate and the bastard took advantage of her. Poor Marion! Of course, the owner eventually went nuts and he gave Marion the bar. However, in the source book for a Raiders of the Lost Ark role playing game, it's suggested that Abner hid a small cache of really valuable artifacts in the floor of the Raven. He probably died before telling Marion about it.

Indy and Marion searched for Abner in the Further Adventures of Indiana Jones comics and the way it turned out was very interesting. Far fetched, but interesting.
If we see Abner in Indy IV, my guess is that it will probably be in the context of a flashback. I would like to see that myself. I sure hope this Indy/Marion mystery is solved in Indy IV. It's been bugging me for years.

How is Abner supposed to have died? Was it in an avalanche, or did I imagine that?

Yep, avalanche it was.

And if the really found the body out there, it would be very difficult to fake. Ever tried playing dead and frozen untill you're choped from the ice?

My guess (If and I say If, they are going to use Abner, he wasn't dead after all, as his body was never found. He hasn't staged his own death, just was missing for more than two decades.

Then Abner breaks into the gouvernment warehouse and manages to steal the ark.He presumably is pretty crazy at this moment by living in the snow digging for the ark in Nepal for thirty years (he was crazy anyway to move to Nepal) because I wouldn't really be comfortable with a Henry/Marcus style professor. Of course, again the gouvernment contacts Indy because Indy knew Abner (they somehow found out it was Abner who stole the ark)

Hmmmm, I didn't like the whole 'abner isn't dead' issue at first, but it could become good.

I like it lots.

Indyologist said:

Where did anyone get the idea that Fedora was originally cast as Abner? I haven't heard that one before, either. Is this just your personal opinion?

Click to expand...

I've said it twice now...the first draft of the LC script. I also believe the second draft had it that way too, but the final draft doesn't have it. Because of that, I like to think that Fedora is Abner, which would explain Indy's methods.


If I recall the novel says that Abner has only been dead for about a year, and (I think) the comic says that they never recoverd his body, only that his expedition was "lost".

I like the idea of Abner soo much in a book ending movie, that I have gone ahead and cast the perfect character to play him...




Who better to play a crazy recluse scroundral then an old Pacino?