ToD: Sequel rather than a prequel?

Would it really have mattered had ToD taken place between RotLA and LC? I for one don't think it would have. Change a few things here and there and I think it'd be just as good as a sequel.

In RotLA, Indy tells Marcus he doesn't believe in magic and superstition as he's packing his things at his house yet he was an eye witness to an actual Thuggee Cult. That's one minor problem with the timeline of the movies I've noticed.

The only reason it was a prequel and not a sequel I think was because they didn't want Indy to have dumped Marion or anything. What do you think about this? Would ToD be better or worse as a sequel rather than a prequel? Or would it pretty much have been the same?

Good point. I wondered about that myself. The fact that the nazis were the villians in Raiders may have something to do with it.

The only reason it was a prequel and not a sequel I think was because they didn't want Indy to have dumped Marion or anything

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But didn't he dump Marion between Raiders and Last Crusade?

Indy Benson said:

But didn't he dump Marion between Raiders and Last Crusade?

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Yes. But I suppose since people already saw Indy with another woman, it couldn't hurt to do it again. I dunno....

No matter how you slice it, TOD was a mistake.

There are too many inconsistencies. Not just the magic thing you mentioned (although that's a pretty big one.)

IF Indy was so close to Short Round, where the hell was he in ROTLA? How come Indy acted like a normal person in ROTLA, but TOD was like a comedy? Indy seemed to take archeology pretty seriously in LC ("It belongs in a museum!") yet in TOD he hires himself out to nab an antiquity for a criminal's personal collection.

The whole thing should just be ignored.

IF Indy was so close to Short Round, where the hell was he in ROTLA?

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Shorty doesn't ALWAYS have to be around him. Besides, Indy probably realized that it was going to be dangerous work to get the idol, and he was dealing with some seedy characters.

Indy seemed to take archeology pretty seriously in LC ("It belongs in a museum!") yet in TOD he hires himself out to nab an antiquity for a criminal's personal collection.

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Ah, but follow the timeline. ToD occured before RotLA. Indy was more of a "fortune and glory" guy in the beginning of ToD. When he realized that lives were at stake, he seemed to change his ways by the end of the film.

Indy's seen a cult but when he tells Marcus he doesn't believe in magic he's truthful because human sacrifice had nothing to do with magic.

Plus that whole Cairo Swordsman deja vu scene is out of place in Temple of Doom, when he is confronted by two swordsmen, reaches for his gun and it's not there, with the Streets of Cairo musical cue in the background. How could he have deja vu if it didn't happen yet? What's up with that?

I dunno. Indy does not do it for the first time in Cairo marketplace, but it's more like a natural move to him?

Actually, gags like this are good things. They keep us reminded about the fact we're watching a movie, so kids won't try it at home.

bob would be crushed.

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?threadid=6286

TOD had more comic relief, if you think about it, then LC.

the dinner scene, willie on the elephant, willie and the bat, "those aren't fortune cookies", "nocturnal activities", and let's not forget Willie getting grossed out by touching that statue.

Indy's_main_man said:

Indy's seen a cult but when he tells Marcus he doesn't believe in magic he's truthful because human sacrifice had nothing to do with magic.

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No it doesn't, but seeing a chest reclose itself after a heart is removed, the heart still beating in someone's hand and then burst into flame does. So does getting attacked via voodoo doll, falling under 'The Black Sleep of Kali' and using a Sanskrit incantation to get rocks to start on fire!

well we can hopefully agree the thugee cult used voodoo. Is irt possible Indy seperates "magic" from "voodoo"?

Or maybe he was just reassuring Marcus that nothing would happen to him so Marcus wouldn't worry.

OR maybe he meant that he didn't believe in any magic associated with the ark which, in essence, was stone covered with gold (what's there to be afraid of? muhahahaha)

spohlso said:

No matter how you slice it, TOD was a mistake.

There are too many inconsistencies. Not just the magic thing you mentioned (although that's a pretty big one.)

IF Indy was so close to Short Round, where the hell was he in ROTLA? How come Indy acted like a normal person in ROTLA, but TOD was like a comedy? Indy seemed to take archeology pretty seriously in LC ("It belongs in a museum!") yet in TOD he hires himself out to nab an antiquity for a criminal's personal collection.

The whole thing should just be ignored.

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I totally and wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion of TOD.

Was it a departure for the first - Yes and this is a good thing.

BTW, it is totally understandable for an itellectual/scholarly type person to accept something for fact and not believe in it. Afterall, most all "magic" can be explained away easily enough with time and research - Indy knows this.

I liked the rouguish character portrayed in TOD - Indy was even more relentless and driven in ROLA - look at how many people he killed or got killed while chasing the Ark.

It sure is funny how most LC fans forget that Indy is not above taking a life if that person is keeping him from his goal. He also has premarital sex and drinks to excess - this is a flawed character, therefore an interesting and longlived character that I thought was wimped out in LC. With all the goofy Marcus, Sallah and Sr. jokes and lurching about - it made the movie very hard to like at first. I hope they get back to the driven and obsessive Indy we all fell in love with back in '81 - not the over-the-top cartoonish, laugh a minute, tongue in cheeck flick of '84 & '89...

FYI, Willie was a mistake - poor actress chosen because Speilberg had the hots for her.

Fedoraman said:

FYI, Willie was a mistake - poor actress chosen because Speilberg had the hots for her.

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I'm not going to debate with the rest of your post because it's an opinion thing, but I think you should know that when Spielberg and Lucas decided to cast Capshaw as ToD's leading lady, no one, SS included, had no idea that she is to become Mrs. Spielberg... nothing even hinted to that direction.

Finn said:

I'm not going to debate with the rest of your post because it's an opinion thing, but I think you should know that when Spielberg and Lucas decided to cast Capshaw as ToD's leading lady, no one, SS included, had no idea that she is to become Mrs. Spielberg... nothing even hinted to that direction.

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Please, have you watched the limited behind the scenes stuff on the DVD release? The part where they are flirting around with Capshaw in the dress and Spielberg in the tux talking and giggling like little children? "Would you take me to the prom?" *YEEUCH!!!*

Not only that, but what about the picutes with Capshaw hanging all over Spielberg between takes...give me a break already, this was the casting couch effect all over the place.

Just because he had no intention of marrying her at the time of casting doesn't mean that his heart/loins didn't take control of better judgement.

I Think she did great in the role. EXACTLY what willie was supposed to be like and even larned a song in chinese.

I never really understood why ToD was a prequel.

Anyways, the line about "hocus pocus" and magic in Raiders was more of sarcasm I believe. Yes, Indy did believe in magic. It's apparent in ToD he did as he mentioned the stone were magical and knew it, saw Mola Ram pull out someone's heart from their chest, etc. Also in Raiders, Indy knew to close his eyes during the opening of the ark and what was going to happen before it did.

If you also add the Young Indy chronicles as canon, you could also say Indy was witness to one supernatural being, Vlad Tepes.

So yes, Indy has for the most part always believed in magic. He just nudged Marcus.

swords said:

bob would be crushed.

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?threadid=6286

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Rightfully so, in this case...

Attila the Professor said:

Rightfully so, in this case...

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I have been so crushed by this that I have been unable to post all week..... I am still wiping the tears away from my keyboard.