are indy and his dad immortal or not?

I say they are not. You know, the whole "that is the boundry and the price of immortality" thing, but my friend doesnt believe me.

Indiana IS immortal

You obviously don't pay attention to detail, do you? Indiana and his father are BOTH immortal, and here's why...

1.) How could the seal stop the power of the grail? The grail had it's power long before the seal was created, as Jesus drank from it hundreds, if not thousands of years before the time of the crusades (I don't know the exact time the crusades took place). Also, the seal might have been able to contain it, but it was destroyed in the cave-in. No more seal, no more restrictions. Also, the seal was only near the entrance of the cave. What if they decided to dig a hole through the back of the cave? The seal isn't a big circle that surrounds the entire cave, so they wouldn't be passing it would they? My point on this is that you can pass the seal and be immortal.

2.) The knight said that another knight would defeat him in single combat, take his place, and then he would be able to rest. This implies that the knight wanted to die. If he wanted to die, why not simply walk past the seal? But how can you be killed in "single combat" if you are immortal? Indiana NOT taking the knight's place shows that he was wrong about the grail in this situation, and implies that he could be wrong in other situations (ie-the seal).

3.) The room was constructed to hold the grail, long after the grail was created. Why would it's power be limited to a room that it was put in a long time after it was first used?

4.) Why have an entire sacred order devoted to protecting the grail if it's power were only limited to a single room? Doesn't make much sense, unless of course the grail's power could be used elsewhere.

Since Indiana AND his father are BOTH immortal, I made the perfect Indiana Jones 4...

It takes place in the year 3000 AD and Indiana has to raid an invading alien's spaceship, find the anciet artifact that is the source of their advance technology, and then save mankind. See? Aliens replace Nazis.

Everybody hates Nazis. Everybody hates aliens.

Wow, I'm a genious, I'm going to go get this copywritten and make like a million dollars.

Oh yeah...

5.) I forgot this reason. If the grails power ends after the seal, why didn't Indiana's father get another hole in his belly where he was shot and died?

They are not immortal. The other 2 brothers of the Knight guarded the grail for several hundred years before they left. After they left and had no more access to the grail they died of old age. Thus it does not matter if the seal constrains the power of the grail or not, since they lost the grail they cannot stay immortal. Henry was restored to perfect health when he drank from it but from that point forward he will age normally.

Re: Indiana IS immortal

I_Am_Always_Right said:

You obviously don't pay attention to detail, do you? Indiana and his father are BOTH immortal, and here's why...

1.) How could the seal stop the power of the grail? The grail had it's power long before the seal was created, as Jesus drank from it hundreds, if not thousands of years before the time of the crusades (I don't know the exact time the crusades took place). Also, the seal might have been able to contain it, but it was destroyed in the cave-in. No more seal, no more restrictions. Also, the seal was only near the entrance of the cave. What if they decided to dig a hole through the back of the cave? The seal isn't a big circle that surrounds the entire cave, so they wouldn't be passing it would they? My point on this is that you can pass the seal and be immortal.
Reply: The stone city collapsed because the seal was crossed, but it wasn't the seal per-say that limited the power of the grail it was the area that the seal was placed on...as a marker so the area wouldn't be crossed by accident.

2.) The knight said that another knight would defeat him in single combat, take his place, and then he would be able to rest. This implies that the knight wanted to die. If he wanted to die, why not simply walk past the seal? But how can you be killed in "single combat" if you are immortal? Indiana NOT taking the knight's place shows that he was wrong about the grail in this situation, and implies that he could be wrong in other situations (ie-the seal).
Because it was his duty to guard the grail and prevent the wrong hands from getting it. Watch the movie again, he talks about being chosen to stay, remember "Two of these brothers walked out of the desert one hundred and fifty years after having found the Grail and began the long journey back to France. But only one of them made it. And before dying of extreme old age, he supposedly imparted his tale to a?to a Franciscan friar, I think."

He also never says that he has to be killed only defeated, and Indy did just that. I presume that the knight would have walked out of the temple and died a natural death.

3.) The room was constructed to hold the grail, long after the grail was created. Why would it's power be limited to a room that it was put in a long time after it was first used?
Says who? It is never said who built the grail temple or when. It could be assumed that God placed the limits on the temple.

4.) Why have an entire sacred order devoted to protecting the grail if it's power were only limited to a single room? Doesn't make much sense, unless of course the grail's power could be used elsewhere.
This is illogical. For instance, Hitler could have continued to return to the grail thus, at least, staying alive for quite some time.

5.) I forgot this reason. If the grails power ends after the seal, why didn't Indiana's father get another hole in his belly where he was shot and died?
The healing power doesn't end, since the healing was already done. The eternal life does, since the eternal life thing was still in progress.

Click to expand...

Watch the movie again, this time pay close attention to the dialouge, you might be surprised.

BTW, you might want to request a name change: I_Am_Not_Always_Right

[Edited by Aaron H on 10-29-2003 at 11:02 pm]

Indy and his Dad are immortal! thay will live in are harts,books and movies tell the end of time.

PS: Short Round is immortal to and he better be in Indy 4

[Edited by Webley on 10-30-2003 at 02:21 am]

I think Short Round may be immortal - Did you see the actor interviewed on the DVDs?! He still looks really young!

I_Am_Always_Right said:

Since Indiana AND his father are BOTH immortal, I made the perfect Indiana Jones 4...

It takes place in the year 3000 AD and Indiana has to raid an invading alien's spaceship, find the anciet artifact that is the source of their advance technology, and then save mankind. See? Aliens replace Nazis.

Everybody hates Nazis. Everybody hates aliens.

Wow, I'm a genious, I'm going to go get this copywritten and make like a million dollars.

Click to expand...

Sorry "Mr. Always", I just contacted Spielburg and got the rights to this sequal--- nyah nyah! "Again you see there is nothing you possess that I cannot take away." However, I guess the only thing left of Harrison Ford in some kind of pickled head in a jar... Should make the stunts easier, anyway.

I hope Short Round is not immortal. He is the worst Indiana Jones character ever (besides Willie)

Gagnosity said:

I hope Short Round is not immortal. He is the worst Indiana Jones character ever (besides Willie)

Click to expand...

How would he be?

They are not immortal for many reasons, inside AND outside of the Indy World.

First off, if this were true, imagine what problems this would cause for Indiana Jones 4. The General Audience, would be way too confused, and if they were immortal, then it takes away from the fact of Indy being a human. Heck, if he's invincible, he might as well walk into an enemy fortress, and do whatever he wants. IE; no plot or premise to the movie. It would be boring, and there would be no suspense or drama.

You all obviously don't know the grail legend completely. The legend pretty much says: He who drinks from the Grail is protected from age and sickness. They CAN be killed, but they have to be shot, stabbed, dropped off of a cliff, etc. This also explains the arguement about the knight, he can be killed in single COMBAT. anyway, This is also going to leave out any scenes in IV where Indy might get poisened, like in ToD.

LC added the Great Seal to the story, limiting how far immortality can exist.

Forget it guys, they drunk from the CUP OF CHRIST. "For that is the price, of immortality". Elsa walked past the seal, meaning she passed the boundary. THATS why he says that. It's always been known that if you drink from the cup of christ, you become immortal (It's not real, but hey, they go by the legend). If you read the timeline of the Indiana Jones Trilogy, you'll see that he lives until present day. He was born 1899, about 104 years ago. Now, thats a long time to live, and considering all the crap Indy has been through, all his past injuries and wounds, he would have been dead around 85 or 90. He is, as well as his father, immortal. I mean, even without how old he was in mind, the cup of christ that carried the blood of christ was going to be used on the german armies. It wouldn't be a good story if Indiana and his buds found out that the armies couldn't become immortal, in fact, it would be frustrating to learn that i worked my butt off and almost DIED for a cause that didn't matter!

No ifs, ands or buts. They shall live forever.

(Note: When you say immortal, it doesn't neccesarily mean you can't be SHOT and killed. E.G. Lord of the Rings; Elves can live forever, but they can be shot dead)

[Edited by merancapeman on 11-24-2003 at 05:29 am]

The time lines are ofcourse made by fans, not by Spielberg or his crew.

Both Indy and his Dad are mortal. The Holy Grail doesn't give immortality, no... it gives Eternal Youth. Listen to Donavan about it on the dvd's.
The story about the Templars says that they get out of the desert after 300 years (I can't remember the exact time). Well you may ask: How is that possible.
Real easy to answer this question: Those 2 brothers STAYED in the temple until 300 years have past, went out, and told their stories to that monk.
But if it only gives Etarnal Youth: How is it possible that Henry's wound is being healed? Because the grail got the power to it too.
Why does the Grail Knight didn't walked out? Because his job was to PROTECT the grail until the next grail knight arrived.

Tada here are a few answers. Any more questions? I'll answer them

merancapeman, did you read any of the previous posts?
Re-read all the posts and your theory of an immortal Indy shall be explained.

You've skipped all the questions i've brought up. The timeline was NOT done by fans, it was made by profesionals at theindyexperience, taken from "Young Indiana Jones" series and "Indiana Jones" series on TV, directly FROM Lucasfilm. I'm telling you, they are definently immortal. Did you not read my part where I describe the stupidity of holding a grail that has powers that can't pass a seal?! Think about it! Whats the point of feeding the grail to a german army, (AKA, "Forces of evil shall walk ALL over the face of the earth"-Henry Jones Senior) if the german army becomes mortal AS SOON AS THEY WALK OUT?! What a ridiculous thing to fight for if it does absolutley nothing to you! If Indy and his dad aren't immortal, what was the point of going all the way over there? Seriously, folks, think LOGICALLY!

P.S. Go to the Timeline at http://www.theindyexperience.com/evo.shtml if you don't believe me.

What good is a race of evil if you can't walk away from the finish line?

[Edited by merancapeman on 11-24-2003 at 11:16 am]

The great seal being the boundary and the price of immortality is of course a last minute hatchet job so that everything could go back to normal, it does make very little sense but it is clear that the Grail does not bring eternal life as such, nor eternal youth, simply increased vitality.

These questions are ultimately answered by a little thing called Indy IV which features a clearly older, mortal Indy and a possibly far more mortal Henry.

I have discussed this countless times and the arguement has not really moved, it is a plot hole nothing more and no fan so far has made it mean anything (i.e. new story opportunities/character development) which would make me more sympathetic to this idea but as it is. This is a diversion, as it really does not matter what should have happened as Indy IV will almost certainly make no reference to it.

(Could we please make a sticky thread or soemthing on this topic)