The Great Jock Escape...

OmegaSeamaster

New member
Can anyone shed some light on what Indy planned to do with Barranca and Satipo one he'd recovered the idol?

Let's say the two men didn't betray him and they all made it out of the temple. If Belloq wasn't there, was he going to pay them off, leave them to their own devices in the jungle and then run off to escape with Jock?

I mean, it's convenient that one became a betrayer and one died, and Indy had the last open seat on Jock's plane.

I just wonder what the original plan was, if nothing went awry.
 
The opening is full of plot holes.

The Hovitos were tracking them? Three day poison? Gee... didn't seem like a 3-day hike to the plane to me...
 

Ska

New member
ha

Never thought of it.

Maybe whoever yelled "shotgun" first got the seat?

Or maybe Indy planned on killing them both. THAT would have taken Raiders in a whole other direction!
 

oki9Sedo

New member
Lets look at the options:

1. Its a plot hole (likely)
2. Indy intended to betray them (unlikely, thats not in character)
3. They intended to split up after finding the Idol and make their own way home (unlikely-one group would have to take the Idol, nobody could trust anyone else to go off with it)

Its probably just a plot hole IMO.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
ResidentAlien said:
The opening is full of plot holes.

The Hovitos were tracking them? Three day poison? Gee... didn't seem like a 3-day hike to the plane to me...

He could just be paranoid.
 

OmegaSeamaster

New member
Another thing to consider is why, if the Hovitos revere the idol so much, are they helping a French westerner plunder it?!?!

Maybe Belloq promised to hand it over and he likely snuck away when the Hovitos king wasn't lookin'.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
OmegaSeamaster said:
Another thing to consider is why, if the Hovitos revere the idol so much, are they helping a French westerner plunder it?!?!

Maybe Belloq promised to hand it over and he likely snuck away when the Hovitos king wasn't lookin'.

I'd never thought of that before!
 

indyflys_solo

New member
I've always thought that Satipo and Barranca lived around there, maybe at the base of the mountains. And that Indy had hired them as guides to the cave... so after they found the idol, Indy got in his plane and the other two had a nice long hike to look forward to.
As for the Belloq thing, it was my assessmant that Belloq had told the Hovitos something like "Theez Indiana Jones man eez trying to take your idol. Eef you help me, I will geev it back to you." :D
And regarding the three-day hike and the plane five minutes away... yeah, got nothin'. Unless, of course, they hadn't actually been hiking for three days... Satipo could just tell how old the poison was. :)confused: How he managed that I don't know.)
So anyway... that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.
 

OmegaSeamaster

New member
I know in the original script by Kasdan, it's implied that Barranca and Satipo have one half of the map, with Jones having the other. This kind of implies that they're partners of some sort.

In the actual movie, you see this when one of them hands Jones their half of the map, and you see Jones bringing them together to locate the temple entrance. Having both parts of the map together at last is what prompts Barranca to try and kill him.

Barranca and Satipo might be local guides, but the script implies something more. I doubt the two guys would just see Jones walk off with an immensely valuable treasure while they got their $500 US dollars and were left to trudge back to the city through the heart of Hovitos country! Haha.

Jones: "Nice working with you. The Jungle is three days in every direction...so please...start walking. Me? I'm off to meet Jock, my first-class air ticket outta here. He's waiting for me at a nearby river." :D
 

A_True_Believer

New member
OmegaSeamaster said:
I know in the original script by Kasdan, it's implied that Barranca and Satipo have one half of the map, with Jones having the other. This kind of implies that they're partners of some sort.

In the actual movie, you see this when one of them hands Jones their half of the map, and you see Jones bringing them together to locate the temple entrance. Having both parts of the map together at last is what prompts Barranca to try and kill him.

Thank you for explaining that! I always wondered why Barranca chose that moment to try to kill Indy instead of doing it as soon as they had met.

As far as the plot hole goes, I'm in the "Satipo and Barranca are locals that walked to the meeting spot with Indy" camp. Makes perfect sense to me. And don't forget there was a third guide - that dude with the hackey sack on his head who got scared away by the bats.

Also, concerning the poison dart, I always assumed that the poison was just three days old, not that they had been walking for three days. It meant that the hovitos had been in the area recently, and thus could be tracking them.
 

Matthew

New member
There's some interesting explanations on this interesting topic. Of course unless there's some mention of this in one of the myriad books coming out, it's totally open. I wonder what light conversations the filmmakers have had regarding stuff like this if any, maybe one of them has defined all those unknowns.
 
ResidentAlien said:
The opening is full of plot holes.

The Hovitos were tracking them? Three day poison? Gee... didn't seem like a 3-day hike to the plane to me...

I presumed that the terrain was so harsh as to be only accesible by foot. That's why Jock is waiting in the wings in his small plane. Indy and his crew of guides and mules couldn't arrive in a bigger plane in such conditions?
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
You should all note that once coming out of the temple, Indy knew where to go, exactly. So the only conclusion is that he had actually arrived there with Jock.

There's not really any plot holes there either. We only saw the end of this adventure, they never told us what led us to the situation we saw at the beginning of the movie.

It's an interesting notion about the map halfs and all. Perhaps Barranca is something more than a simple jungle guide?

Yet another interpretation follows: Indy arrives in Peru and somehow gets to know that Barranca, a fellow also looking for the temple, has left to the jungle. Indy gets Jock to fly him out there, tells him to wait for him and goes to confront his competitor. The two men begrudgingly form an alliance for the time being. The rest goes as seen in the movie.
 

Deckard

New member
Jones flew in with Jock.

They met Satipo, Barranca, and that other guy w/ the mule. The guy who is scared by the face statue and runs off.

Obviously those 3 men hiked to that point to meet Dr. Jones who flew in. Jones would have flown out w/ Jock and the idol after giving Satipo and Barranca theyre share of the prize. While the other 3 men would have taken there $ and hiked back to where they started. It is also possible that Satipo and the other 2 were already paid a small fee simply as guides, and the idol was intended, in Jones' mind soley for the museum.

My guess is that Barranca and Satipo are unaware as to Belloq's presence. For this same reason, they wouldn't expect the Hovitos to know they are coming. This lulls them into a false sence of security.

I took it as Belloq follows Indy to South America and when he learns where he is headed, perhaps from when Indy charters Jock's plane, he then beats Jones to that locale and recruits the Hovitos to make himself look like a savior and Jones a thief. The hovitos would also not be cool w/ Satipo or Barranca, but at the same time you must wonder if Belloq had them on the payrole.

My guess is they werent working for Belloq and heres why:

Belloq knows he can't wonder into the temple and get the idol,

a. he doesn't have the map so doesn't know the exact location

b. he's most likely afraid of the booby-traps and would rather Jones risk his neck (perhaps he even knows Forrestal?)

c. the hovitos aren't just going to let Belloq wonder off with the idol. By gaining there trust he probably planned on killing Jones, then escaping w/ the idol at night when the Hovitos slept, Jones running off gave Belloq a new oppurtunity to escape w/ his prize.


Barranca makes his move when he can first get his hands on the map, this shows me that he and Satipo have differant motives then Belloq.


Of course, its possible that Belloq kills Barranca when he "fails" belloq, or just plain double crosses Barranca knowing the Hovitos will trssut him more for protecting the idol and killing those who try to steal it, but I don't see this.
 

No Ticket

New member
Another good question is, how does Indy know this is where his competitor "cashed in?" Presuming he died there, was it just because he never came back? Is this how Indy obtained his half of the map maybe?

I don't know. It is all very confusing. I never thought about how quickly Indy gets to Jock's plane. He DID know exactly where to go.

I think it's pretty obvious that Belloq and the Hovitos were merely following Indy to claim the prize AFTER Indy gets it so that he doesn't have to. And I imagine he somehow betrayed the Hovitos after Indy escapes. Maybe gave them the slip while they were chasing after Indy?

Lots of interesting questions. It makes me want to know the rest of the story for each opening. Like how Indy obtained Nurhachi and stuff like that.
 

Mickiana

Well-known member
I bet that Indy knows Forrestal cashed it in in the temple because he (Forrestal) hired Barranca and maybe Satipo as guides previously and Barranca, at least, informed Indy that he went in there and never came out. Judging by the way Barranca tried to kill Indy for the whole map and also by the way Satipo seemed ignorant of Forrestal, perhaps Barranca was alone with Forrestal as his only guide previously. Barranca displayed that steely ambition until the end while Satipo is in a kind of awe of Indy, at least until his betrayal of Indy in the temple.
 

Insomniac

New member
I thought about posting a similar thread like this but you beet me to it, but those are Good questions they could have been hired along the way as tour guides but as you said it wasn't that long of a hike so i'm baffled by the plot 2.
 

OmegaSeamaster

New member
It's been ages since I read the screenplay, but it appears from Kasdan's descriptions that Barranca and Satipo aren't porters. They seem to be Peruvians who are in a tenuous "partnership" with Jones. As the party makes its way to the temple, it's clear that the guides who run away are the ones doing all the gruntwork, as Barranca says he's not carrying supplies when one of them takes off in fear.

BARRANCA: (nervous) No one has ever come out of there alive. Why should we put our faith in you?

Indy takes the weird feather from the band of his hat.
From around its point, he slips a tightly rolled piece
of parchment. Barranca and Satipo exchange a quick "So
that's where it was!" look. They all kneel as Indy
spreads out the parchment. On it is one-half of a crude
floorplan of the Temple.

INDY: No one ever had what we have...partners.

Indy fixes them with an expectant stare. Satipo produces
a similar, but folded, piece of parchment. He lays it--
the other half of the floorplan--next to Indy's. They
all regard it for a moment, then Indy stands and walks
toward the Temple. Barranca's eyes are shining as they
dart between the floorplan and Satipo.

Then it appears that there's also some detail that pretty much answers my own question about Belloq planning to screw over the Hovitos. He must have fooled them into thinking he'd retreive it for them, and that it would be theirs.

BRODY: Do you think the idol will ever show up?

INDY: I don't know. Just because Belloq had it doesn't mean he kept it.

Indy snaps the book closed and puts it on the shelf.
He takes his glasses off and focuses on Brody. At the
windowed door to his office, two pretty Coeds pause for
a moment, look in at their sexy Archeology professor,
giggle and disappear.

INDY: Getting it away from those Indians would be a neat trick. (a hard look)
I hope they got him.
 

oki9Sedo

New member
indyflys_solo said:
I've always thought that Satipo and Barranca lived around there, maybe at the base of the mountains. And that Indy had hired them as guides to the cave... so after they found the idol, Indy got in his plane and the other two had a nice long hike to look forward to.
As for the Belloq thing, it was my assessmant that Belloq had told the Hovitos something like "Theez Indiana Jones man eez trying to take your idol. Eef you help me, I will geev it back to you." :D
And regarding the three-day hike and the plane five minutes away... yeah, got nothin'. Unless, of course, they hadn't actually been hiking for three days... Satipo could just tell how old the poison was. :)confused: How he managed that I don't know.)
So anyway... that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

I doubt Satipo and Barranca lived anywhere near the Hovitos territory.

The Belloq thing just doesn't make sense. If he warned them that Indy was planning to steal the Idol, they might be grateful and agree to help him in some way, but not by giving him the Idol. He must have found a sneaky way to get away with it.
 

whipcracker666

New member
I seem to remember flipping through an Indiana jones role playing book by West End Games some years ago. In the character section they had biographies for both Barranca and Satipo which explained that they were local guides who would take explorers into the jungle only to rob them and leave them there on a regular basis.
 
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