Question about S&W 1917???

General Kenobi

New member
Ok, so I found a S&W 1917 at a gun show about a week ago and now I'm looking at altering it to make it screen accurate. What do I need to do to it other then shorten the barrel to four inches? I've spent several hours researching this, however, I've not seen any other modifications that were ever made from the original design.

Thanks for your help in advance.
The General
:whip:
 

Montana Smith

Active member
The most information I've found on the guns used is on the Indygear page:

There were two primary revolvers used in Raiders of the Lost Ark. One was a Smith & Wesson 1917, chambered for .45 ACP from Stembridge rentals in Hollywood. The second was a Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector Model 2 (HE2) from Bapty & Co. in London. It is widely accepted that the Bapty was used in all the revolver shooting scenes.

Both guns had their barrels cut down to four inches. A distinguishing feature in recognizing one of these type guns is the slim profile checkered grips. A variant in the two Raiders hand ejectors was the S&W gold medallions inlaid in the grips. The .455 had them and the .45 ACP did not. This can most likely be attributed to an oversight in production.

Both of these pistols were sold at separate auctions a few years ago and are now in private hands, with both owners kind enough to provide details on these now-historically important revolvers.


The Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector 2nd Model “Bapty”

The “Bapty” was a Hand Ejector 2nd Model with lanyard ring and a 4-inch barrel with a “Baughman-style” front ramp sight and worn blued finish. The revolver is also clearly in the .455 Eley caliber as because exposed brass cannot be seen at the back of the revolver's cylinder during the film.

Thanks to careful research by “Indy45,” who will be quoted in the following descriptions, much is now known about the "Bapty," including even the smallest details.

The barrel on the “Bapty” is likely a later barrel added to the gun as there were no HE2s made with 4-inch barrels.

“A S&W 1917 muzzle wall thickness measures about .090, while the movie gun looks like .060-.070. I was able to verify on Smith-WessonForum.com that the later S&W 1950 Army and Model 22 (through 1966) had thinner walls, so Bapty cutting and installing a later barrel would explain the difference.”

When the gun was photographed after auction, it was learned that the pistol was indeed a British contract revolver.

Through photographic analysis, it was learned that the "Bapty" is one of the English WWI contract guns in the s/n range 5001 to 74755 and re-blued “to cover the barrel work.” The gun used .455 blanks, available since the 1930's.

The front sight, custom made from steel stock, measures 9mm (.355 inches) high, 6mm (.236 inches) wide and 2.8 cm (1.10 inches) long. The blade ramp is about .162 inches high, .086 inches wide and .537 inches long, with serrations on it's angled surface. The sight base top is .724 inches long before it slopes off to the barrel.

“The overall finish is worn with rust specs with "dings", or dents, on either side of the barrel near the frame, probably from placing the barrel in a vise, and at the flare where the cylinder pin hits the frame when closing the cylinder.”

Also of note is a crossed flag British proof on the frame left side at the barrel centerline and on the right side of the frame, the S&W "Trade Mark" circular logo. Patent text on the top side of the barrel is partially covered by the front sight. The barrel left side printing says "SMITH & WESSON .455."

“All numbers on steel match the S/N 39871 except the cylinder, which means the cylinder was probably replaced long ago by Bapty. The grips are well worn checkered walnut with the gold (brass) S&W indented logo. Unknown if the right grip has the S/N penciled on the underside.”

When sold at auction, the Bapty Raiders revolver was officially deactivated to be sold in compliance with current British laws. The ejector was removed and the cylinder counter-bored so a cartridge block could be welded in place. The ejector no longer functions and likely a barrel block was installed “as there looks to be a drilled and filled hole on the underside of the very front of the barrel.”

RotLA-bapty2.jpg


The Smith and Wesson 1917 “Stembridge”

Yes, there are two different revolvers in Raiders of the Lost Ark. The previously mentioned "Bapty" fired the blanks. The other, most notably seen when Indiana Jones cavalierly tosses it into his suitcase in his home, is a revolver that the production team rented from Stembridge Gun Rentals of Glendale, CA. The "Stembridge" was also used in the beginning of the movie during the Chachapoyan temple scene in Peru, filmed in Hawaii, when Indiana Jones relinquishes his gun to Belloq. This revolver is noteworthy for it's reattached banded barrel sight and a corner missing from the left grip bottom front, exposing part of the butt frame.

Thanks to meticulous research by Lee Keppler, Indy45, Indiana Bond and others, the history of the "Stembridge" is well documented. Keppler was able to rent the Raiders "Stembridge" in 1985, long before it was sold at public auction in 2007. He took detailed photos of it at the time, and the new owner was kind enough to provide additional photos and information after the sale.

The "Stembridge" is a Smith & Wesson Hand Ejector 2nd Model with a blued finish, lanyard ring and the normal 1917 5.5-inch barrel cut down to 4 inches. The first half-inch of the barrel is a band sweated over a turned down barrel. The band is not the reamed out section of the front of the cut off barrel as there is no taper to the band. The front sight is re-shaped and silver soldered to a flattened area on the band.

The "Stembridge" is a Commercial Model, as evidenced by the small circle S&W "Trade Mark" logo on the left side of the frame under the cylinder release and was chambered for .45 ACP. The grips were checkered walnut with no medallions and rounded at the top. Although the grips sometimes appear black on film, the grips were actually very dark brown as they were "well oiled." Incidentally, the ejector rod locking lug pin was actually missing on the "Stembridge."

The serial number was 172449. The barrel's left side states "S.&W. D.A.45." The barrel's right side states "SMITH & WESSON." The top of the barrel has two lines of fine print, but since the barrel was cut and the front blade re-attached with a band, the remaining visible lettering is "WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. DEC. 17 1901 FEB 6 1906 SEP.14 1909".

The Smith & Wesson 1917 has an interesting history. S&W designed their big N Frame revolver in .44 caliber in 1908. The British Government placed a large order for about 75,000 chambered in .455 Mk II (Webley) in 1914. One of these, a Hand Ejector Model 2, turned out to be the "Bapty" shooter. At the start of World War I, Colt could not produce sufficient numbers of their 1911 .45 ACP automatic to meet U.S. Government requirements, so the U.S. asked S&W to supply large frame revolvers in .45 ACP. Since .45 ACP is rimless, the revolver's chambers were designed with an inner lip so that the cartridge would rest or "headspace" at the proper depth. But once fired, the brass was difficult to extract, as the hand-ejector had nothing to grab. S&W is credited with designing a half-moon clip that in effect provided a 'rim' for the cartridges and made loading and unloading easier.

The U.S. Government contracted with S&W for the .45 ACP U.S. Service Model of 1917, with production totaling about 163,000. The 1917s have 5.5-inch barrels, and nearly all are blued finish, although some World War II armory re-furbishes have a parkerized finish. About 25,000 1917s were also produced for the Brazilian Government in 1938. S&W continued production of the 1917 in a U.S. Commercial version after February 1, 1919 until 1946. The "Stembridge" was one of the Commercial 1917s, rare in terms of production numbers, with only about 20,000 made.

RotLA-stembridge2.jpg
 

Goodeknight

New member
What pains me, Montana, are the lines about welding a bunch of crap into the barrel of the actual prop so it can't ever be fired again. What a shame. :mad:
 
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