TheRaider.net
 

Go Back   The Raven > Beyond the Films > Indy Literature
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-28-2004, 08:40 PM   #1
Johan
IndyFan
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 1,314
Petition to Eliminate Martin Caiden Indy Books!

Ok first of all...they need to eliminate the Caiden books from the series...its a flight manual! Seriously! These books are so badly written, bad story line and he is Obsessed with Flight Manuals. These books Are NOT worthy to have the name of INDY on them.
Of course I have to keep them to have my complete sereis, but I've read the dozen Indy novels and the 2 by Caiden Must Go! So I am writting a Non-Official Petition Just to say you agree.

-IndyJohan
Johan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 12:33 PM   #2
QueZTone
IndyFan
 
QueZTone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 208
I disagree. Have some respect for the deceased. Also I actually enjoyed his novels.
QueZTone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 01:10 PM   #3
Ayrun
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ayrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 783
Don't get me wrong.. I hated the books as well, and I agree with you on that.. Well.. up to the part where you said the guy couldn't write..
I believe he can.. but Indy books ain't his thing, in my opinion.
But I wouldn't go that far to eliminate them, though..
I mean.. these books are unfortunately part of the Indy books, but hey… nothing you can do about it. The damage has already been done.
Ayrun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 02:33 PM   #4
Indyologist
IndyFan
 
Indyologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Buffalo, New York
Posts: 1,939
I wouldn't want to have them removed, but I do admit that IMHO they are BLOODY AWFUL! I only read them because they include Indy's character, but that's about as far as they go on quality.

They do indeed seem to me to be more of a manual for flight enthusiasts and, as such, made for extremely boring reading for myself. They would be good for someone who's obsessed with aircraft, however. But myself? No thanks.
Indyologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 04:58 PM   #5
Johan
IndyFan
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 1,314
Comon guy's, its like he wrote a book and edited Indy's name into it. Heck I looked up the background on this guy and guess what??? He really does write flight manuals!
Johan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 07:05 PM   #6
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Indy

Quote:
Originally posted by Renderking Fisk
VOGEL:
What is in this book? That miserable little Diary of yours! Here's the map. The book is useless, and yet you come all the way back to Berlin to get it. Why? What are you hiding? What does the Diary tell you that it doesn't tell us?!

HENRY:
It tells me that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them.

Just because you don't like a book, doesn't mean they should be erased.


Exactly. I for one, really like planes (Especially from WWII). For someone who likes planes and know what they are talking about when it comes to planes, these two books are a blast to read. I for one enjoyed them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 08:59 PM   #7
Webley
IndyFan
 
Webley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Short Round is cooler than Indy
Posts: 1,717
Sky Pirates was a kickin book yo it read like a Doc. Savage book it had that hole A- team thing going on.
Webley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 10:48 PM   #8
Johan
IndyFan
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 1,314
well maybe he should have made an A-Team book. But I'm glad I got out of this post that I wanted to....other peoples feedback!
Anyway, Caiden (may he rest in peace) will obviously not be writing any more, but I continue to skip over those 2 novels when I go through the series.
Johan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 11:12 PM   #9
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Indy

What happened to him? Does any1 know?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2004, 06:05 AM   #10
chipuk
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 66
I have read Caiden's books, cant say I like them in particular
not bad not good. But as Ren said you dont have to read them.
The only point is you have to read them so you can find out for yourself if they are bad or good
chipuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2004, 02:29 PM   #11
Indyologist
IndyFan
 
Indyologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Buffalo, New York
Posts: 1,939
Quote:
Originally posted by Webley
Sky Pirates was a kickin book yo it read like a Doc. Savage book it had that hole A- team thing going on.


I pitty da foo' who compares Mista Jones to Mista T! Mista Jones is Mista Jones an' Mista T is Mista T, you foo'!!
Indyologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2004, 02:30 PM   #12
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Indyologist
I pitty da foo' who compares Mista Jones to Mista T! Mista Jones is Mista Jones an' Mista T is Mista T, you foo'!!


LOL! Sounds just like Mista T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2004, 02:30 PM   #13
Indyologist
IndyFan
 
Indyologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Buffalo, New York
Posts: 1,939
Quote:
Originally posted by IndyJohan
Anyway, Caiden (may he rest in peace)


I had no idea he died! Even though I didn't like his Indy novels, I will say that I respect him greatly as a fellow writer for getting published. That, in itself, is a harrowing adventure!
Indyologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2004, 02:51 PM   #14
Shipwreck
Moderator Emeritus
 
Shipwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 253
In Regards to the Caidin Novels

A prolific writer of over 150 scientific and fictional books, Martin Caidin was known as the "Hemingway of the Air," with a passion for living life to the fullest. As an orphan, he dreamed of escaping his life of abuse and drudgery by flying one of those beautiful birds in the sky. When he was 16, he stole an airplane for his first flight and was able to take off and land without putting a scratch on it. The relieved owner was so impressed that he offered to give Caidin flying lessons.

In 1955, Caidin worked secretly with Dr. Wernher von Braun and a small research group at Cape Canaveral to build the nation's first top secret moon rocket. While researching the Soviet space program and the life of Cosmonaut Gherman Stepanovich Titov, Caidin co-authored with Titov the book I Am Eagle. From this association came Caidin's best seller Marooned which was about American astronauts stranded in space and rescued by Soviet cosmonauts. Made into a blockbuster movie and filmed at Cape Canaveral with Caidin directing construction of the space capsule, every detail was so scientifically accurate (a trademark of all of Caidin's works) that it was officially sanctioned by NASA.

At the time the movie was filmed, Russia was totally against any joint manned space missions with the United States. However, when the movie was shown to the Soviet Academy of Science and the cosmonauts, they reversed their decision. According to both Phillip Handler, former president of the American Academy of Science, and official NASA reports, Caidin's movie Marooned was the major factor in the collaborative space effort leading to the Apollo-Soyuz joint U.S./Soviet space mission. To this day all Russian and American spacecraft have "common docking mechanisms" to allow for the possibility of future rescues.

Many of Caidin's books made it to Hollywood, another big success being Final Countdown. His book Cyborg was made into The Six Million Dollar Man as well as The Bionic Woman. Ironically, Cyborg was originally titled Miracle People, a non-fiction work about altering human bodies to allow them to function in space, but publishers wouldn't buy it. Most of Caidin's novels are based on fact, but many are on such sensitive subjects that in order to get them approved by government intelligence he had to include some fiction. Although pressed, he refused to tell which parts were factual. Two such books are The Mendelov Conspiracy (about UFOs) and The Messiah Stone which he said is 90 percent factual.

Caidin was as well known for his technically oriented nonfiction books as he was the big blockbuster novels. Whichever form his books took, one quality stood out -- the Caidin mark of strict scientific accuracy. The National War College, The Air University of the U.S. Air Force, and many other educational, training and special institutions use Caidin books as doctrine and strategy guides, historical references, and textbooks. He served as a nuclear warfare specialist for several states and was active with the Air Commandos and Strike Command in research about paramilitary strike teams.

An author who "lived what he wrote," Caidin spent five weeks with the famous USAF Thunderbirds jet aerobatic team. His book Thunderbirds! has gone through 22 printings and is still acclaimed as a classic documentary on the Air Force's aerial demonstration unit. Awarded the title "Thunderbird 8" by the team, Caidin is the only civilian ever to have lived and fly with them. He also flew as a stunt pilot on such films as The War Lover, The Battle of Britain, & The Longest Day and is famous for his breathtaking performances at leading airshow events.

Other nonfictional works such as Zero! and Samurai! resulted from Caidin's work while assigned to Air Force intelligence in Japan. He worked directly with Jiro Horikoshi (designer of the Zero fighter plane) and Masatake Okumiya (Chief of Japanese Navy intelligence in World War II).

The awards and honors beside Caidin's name are far too numerous to mention. He was a charter member of the Aviation Hall of Fame, founder of the American Astronautical Society, a member of the Missile, Range and Space Pioneers, and a Command Pilot for the following organizations: Confederate Air Force, Valiant Air Command, Warbirds of America, Experimental Aircraft Association, and Canadian Warplane Heritage.

Martin Caidin took on the role of delivering two novels to Lucas about Indiana Jones. During the course, he fell terminally ill. Not being a man to go against his word, he finished what he started.

Martin Caidin died of thyroid cancer March 24th, 1997 after a bitter struggle. He was 69.

Please, think of this when referring to his Indiana Jones books. He worked until the end.
Shipwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2004, 03:27 PM   #15
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Re: In Regards to the Caidin Novels

Quote:
Originally posted by Shipwreck

Please, think of this when referring to his Indiana Jones books. He worked until the end.


WOW, I agree completely. That was nicely put shipwreck.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:08 AM   #16
Johan
IndyFan
 
Johan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 1,314
Where did you cut and paste that??
Anyway, many people died thinking the books they were writing would get into the Bible...but they did not put it in out of pity for thier death. I respect Caiden as a writer but I just don't think his Indy books are worthy to be called indy books...he should of stuck to the books he usually writes. I don't think indy's charachter was potrayed very well. I was just fustrated reading them thinking....give up on the airplanes already! Any way...that's my 2 cents
Johan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:36 AM   #17
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Indy

"Show a little backbone" Rotla

Give Caiden a break. He died writing Indy books. i doubt you could do much better IndyJohan. Show a little respect for someone who really tried.

Also, not everyone hates his books, I personally liked them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:50 AM   #18
Pale Horse
Moderator
 
Pale Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 6,733
Quote:
Originally posted by IndyJohan
Where did you cut and paste that??
Anyway, many people died thinking the books they were writing would get into the Bible...but they did not put it in out of pity for thier death. I respect Caiden as a writer but I just don't think his Indy books are worthy to be called indy books...he should of stuck to the books he usually writes. I don't think indy's charachter was potrayed very well. I was just fustrated reading them thinking....give up on the airplanes already! Any way...that's my 2 cents


There are some members of this board who dedicate themselves to the pursuit of knowledge and the pursuit of their art and on the small occassion that they decide to pass that wisdom and knowledge on to the rest us we should be grateful. Shipwreck as you know him is not some "cut and paste" artist. He is an author himself, and is highly involved in the preservation and education process of film and film making. You would be wise to hear what he has to say.

Your $.02 has been noted. Now, put it somewhere where it will gain some interest, by investing it in the wisdom and council of people who may be more directly involved in the art, as opposed to those who just watch it pass by on a page.
Pale Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:52 AM   #19
Lord Excalibur
IndyFan
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Emperor's Tomb
Posts: 80
I agree, I haven't read Caidin's books but I will give the White Witch a try (only because it's about Excalibur). C'mon these adventures are in the Indy universe too. He died when he wrote the goddamn Indy books so give the man a break will ya. If you don't like them why the hell read them!!!!!
Lord Excalibur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:52 AM   #20
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse
There are some members of this board who dedicate themselves to the pursuit of knowledge and the pursuit of their art and on the small occassion that they decide to pass that wisdom and knowledge on to the rest us we should be grateful. Shipwreck as you know him is not some "cut and paste" artist. He is an author himself, and is highly involved in the preservation and education process of film and film making. You would be wise to hear what he has to say.

Your $.02 has been noted. Now, put it somewhere where it will gain some interest, by investing it in the wisdom and council of people who may be more directly involved in the art, as opposed to those who just watch it pass by on a page.


Agreed Whole Heartedly
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:53 AM   #21
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Indy

Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Excalibur
I agree, I haven't read Caidin's books but I will give the White Witch a try (only because it's about Excalibur). C'mon these adventures are in the Indy universe too. He died when he wrote the goddamn Indy books so give the man a break will ya. If you don't like them why the hell read them!!!!!

Amen to that
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 11:56 AM   #22
Indy_Jones88
 
Posts: n/a
Indy

Sorry Didnt mean to qoute people twice but those are very good points.

And IndyJohan, Stop whining about these books so much. They arent that bad, and if you dont like them TO BAD. Im sorry if im being a jerk, but I cant stand it when people whine.

"Do You want some cheese with the whine?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 03:50 PM   #23
Canyon
IndyFan
 
Canyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Originally from the UK but now living in Pennsylvania, USA!!!
Posts: 2,210
Although Martin Caidin's Indy books are not my favourites I have nothing but respect for the late author.

Okay, I know that these novels were not the greatest Indy adventures ever written, but saying this, there was something about those books I liked.

They had some great scenes and although they were not your traditional pulp novels or like McCoy's or McGreggor's novels they were still fun to read.

I particularly liked the romantic scenes between Indy and Gail Parker and I quote from a recent article that I wrote, Indy's Relationships With Women Part 3-
"It is now 1930 and Indy meets a lady called Gail Parker and they immediately bond. I feel that their relationship is a very interesting one as these two are very alike and admire and respect each other equally. Gail becomes a good friend of the archaeologist, and during their two adventures, The Sky Pirates and The White Witch they become closer. For anyone who has read these two books by the late Martin Caidin you will notice that the relationship between these two characters change. For instance, there is a part where Gail asks herself the question: Is she falling for Indy? Later on, Indy asks her to dinner on a date and she is momentarily confused by his offer. Some time later as Gail is swept up in wild abandon, she kisses Indy full on the lips which confuses him, and then near the end of the particular adventure she tells him: ’’I love you.” During the second adventure, as Gail is tending to Indy’s injuries, she tells herself not to appear too affectionate towards Indy. Obviously, she likes Indy a great deal, but at the same time, it seems to me as if she is holding back. It would have been very interesting to look into their relationship further, but unfortunately, only two books were written featuring these two characters together."

I also liked the fact that when Caidin wrote about Indy, he wrote about him as the respected archaeology professor and I thought that was great because it felt to me that people in the adventures were giving Indy the respect that he deserved.

Just my thoughts.
Canyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 05:49 PM   #24
Shipwreck
Moderator Emeritus
 
Shipwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 253
Quote:
Originally posted by IndyJohan
Where did you cut and paste that??


Actually, the majority of that 'rant' did come from a Caidin fan site I found a long time ago - PRIOR to his death - while doing research. The rest is from information gathered from private sources when posed with the right questions ;-)

I wanted to share with you something about the man behind those particular books. I respect that you respect his works. I wasn't trying to curtail your like/dislike for the books. But I thought that too many 'dis' the works of others without understanding the difficulties.

In this case, unlike other authors, he had to face a real enemy while writing the books. Perhaps if you review them again, you will pick up a sense of his pending fate and perhaps hear the last words of a greater fan than I. That is what places his works apart from the others. They were a last will and testament, if you will allow, for those who asked him to create another glimpse into Indy's world.
Shipwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 06:02 PM   #25
Webley
IndyFan
 
Webley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Short Round is cooler than Indy
Posts: 1,717
White Witch is the one that got me hooked on all the Indy books
Webley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:11 AM.