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Old 02-03-2010, 05:18 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
It's in the novelization. Chapter 3 is entitled 'Connecticut' and the first line reads: "Indiana Jones sat in his office at Marshall College."!
Well, there we have it! Thanks for looking that up, Matt. (I skimmed through some of the early Marvels and couldn't find the Marshall name anywhere...Could've sworn it was there somewhere. Anyone know?)
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
What month was TOD supposed to take place in? 1935 as a year would work with him leaving Princeton for Marshall.
"Doom" stretches anywhere between June-December, 1935. Although this question is rather vital to the discussion, at the moment I think I would rather drill a hole between my eyes than try pinpointing the precise date for "Doom" or "Raiders". For a thread dedicated to that very topic (+ a whole lot more), check out this whopper: The Indiana Jones Timeline / Chronology

"Ultimate Guide" has ToD in June with Indy's switch from Princeton to Marshall happening in July. This tiny footnote puts a whole new spin on things. Indy's dialogue in "Doom" about being a professor would be him referring to his job in New Jersey and NOT Connecticut! (Was this idea conceived for the DK Ultimate Guide? I think so...)

Does the Wu Han Video Game give any clues?
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The Arms of Gold has him assigned classes in autumn 1937, and another source as him beginning at Barnett in Jauary 1938, so that one could be fudged.
According to "Arms of Gold", Indy is unquestionably at Barnett c.Aug/Sept 1937. (The curious part is: Where did the January '38 date come from outside of the "Ultimate Guide"?)
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Originally Posted by AnnieJones
Urgh!
Everything is so very confusing.I just want my timeline to be correct.
Could someone who knows what they're talking about please just fix it for me already.
I can help, Annie, but in your other thread (as most of the additions are pre-1935). You need your timeline fixed? I've got the tools...
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Thing is, it's very possible, especially with the existence of the notably unreliable Ultimate Guide and somewhat dubious Lost Journal, that it just isn't going to match up in any fashion. You've got to be prepared for that possibility.
One must go with the source material before consulting these types of compilations (unless they concern something new or unique). More often than not, the only times the content of either book is worth mentioning is to point out their lack of credibility. (Which is extremely unfortunate since I love them both.) Like you say, Attila, a complete Indy timeline is NEVER going to be free of problems. It's much too late in the game.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:51 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Stoo
For a thread dedicated to that very topic (+ a whole lot more), check out this whopper: The Indiana Jones Timeline / Chronology
That is my favorite timeline!I love how it puts everything together so nicely.
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:33 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by AnnieJones
That is my favorite timeline!I love how it puts everything together so nicely.

That is a very helpful timeline for putting the stories/adventures in chronological order.

Timelines often get messy when you start to unpack each adventure and list out the events described or noted within, and you discover that the writer hasn't consulted what's gone before. Especially, as it appears to be, with the various guides and diaries that have appeared more recently.

Lucasfilm's strong arm tactics on the chronology of Star Wars is sorely lacking with Indy. Does George really care less about poor Indy?
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:34 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Does George really care less about poor Indy?

Hmmm...isn't it apparent?
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:59 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon

The World of Indiana Jones will always be George's other, not so, lucrative universe. No wonder Indy often looks so scruffy, he's beaten and kicked around by his own creator!

You could almost think that Lucas was in league with Richard Branson...
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:22 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
The World of Indiana Jones will always be George's other, not so, lucrative universe. No wonder Indy often looks so scruffy, he's beaten and kicked around by his own creator!

You could almost think that Lucas was in league with Richard Branson...


You had better whisper that ! If you only knew how much Gordon Lightfoot pays to keep that relationship transparent, (invisible even).
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:35 AM   #182
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I even hear that Lucas sold his stake in Indiana Jones to be able to afford making those horrible new Star Wars movies...

Don't know if it's true but I'm sure someone on here will either confrim or deny that.

Trouble is, that when that happens we still won't know if it's true or not though...
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:08 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Timelines often get messy when you start to unpack each adventure and list out the events described or noted within, and you discover that the writer hasn't consulted what's gone before. Especially, as it appears to be, with the various guides and diaries that have appeared more recently.
In the '80s/'90s publications, it's easily forgiveable but not in the internet age of "Crystall Skull". As a matter of fact, the recent wave of literature is creating more problems in the timeline instead of smoothing them out. (Ex. In addition to that oddball page of "Lost Journal" (which has Indy at Marshall in 1925), the Dark Horse, mini-digest, "Adventures Vol. 1" has him at Marshall in 1930!)
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Lucasfilm's strong arm tactics on the chronology of Star Wars is sorely lacking with Indy. Does George really care less about poor Indy?
I would be curious to see whatever fact sheet Lucasfilm sends out to it's Indy licensees. What kind of guidelines would it contain?

...but as we all know, it doesn't really matter, in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:37 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Stoo
In the '80s/'90s publications, it's easily forgiveable but not in the internet age of "Crystall Skull". As a matter of fact, the recent wave of literature is creating more problems in the timeline instead of smoothing them out. (Ex. In addition to that oddball page of "Lost Journal" (which has Indy at Marshall in 1925), the Dark Horse, mini-digest, "Adventures Vol. 1" has him at Marshall in 1930!)

And while we're on unreliable publications, Prima's Strategy Guide for Infernal Machine included a short prologue in which it is made clear that, while Indy is away investigating Babylonian mysteries, Henry Sr. is taking over Indy's courses at...Barnett College. And that's 1997. (Of course, this is as dubiously canonical as we can get.)

Oh, and the 1935 journal included as a manual for Emperor's Tomb also mentions Barnett College.

Really, it just seems that whichever university was most recently featured in a film gets mentioned in the extra-filmic materials. The novels are the big exception to this, which seems to privilege their information in my mind.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:07 PM   #185
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Ok,I've updated the timeline(it's at the bottom of the thread).I hope it looks better now. http://raven.theraider.net/showthrea...t=18429&page=3
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:32 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
And while we're on unreliable publications, Prima's Strategy Guide for Infernal Machine included a short prologue in which it is made clear that, while Indy is away investigating Babylonian mysteries, Henry Sr. is taking over Indy's courses at...Barnett College. And that's 1997. (Of course, this is as dubiously canonical as we can get.)

Oh, and the 1935 journal included as a manual for Emperor's Tomb also mentions Barnett College.

Really, it just seems that whichever university was most recently featured in a film gets mentioned in the extra-filmic materials. The novels are the big exception to this, which seems to privilege their information in my mind.

I would personally discount any information provided by the computer games, unless they were novelized or made into comics.

The games don't strike me as being legitimate, since the events are never the same as they're controlled by the player, as opposed to a book that follows a set path. For instance if you write in a chronology that Indy succeeded in the Emperor's Tomb adventure, that wouldn't tally with the personal experience of somebody who never completed the game.

The same would also apply to those choose your path ('Fighting Fantasy' style) Indy books.

If we discounted the games it might make Indy's chronology a little less confused. And then maybe all the new information provided by the later guides and journals needs to be treated with caution - regard it as misinformation created simply to fill a book.

At first I would stick with the films, novels, and West End Games sourcebooks, as they would appear to be more faithful to original material.

New information provided by guides, journals, games or other sources could be included in red, with a proviso that the reader treat these entries with caution, as they may be inaccurate. (But at least they will still be recorded for the benefit of having all the information provided in one place).

Last edited by Montana Smith : 02-06-2010 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:13 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I would personally discount any information provided by the computer games, unless they were novelized or made into comics.

The games don't strike me as being legitimate, since the events are never the same as they're controlled by the player, as opposed to a book that follows a set path. For instance if you write in a chronology that Indy succeeded in the Emperor's Tomb adventure, that wouldn't tally with the personal experience of somebody who never completed the game.

I would include Fate of Atlantis and Infernal Machine, personally. This is due in part to Hal Barwood, a personal friend of Lucas and, I think, Spielberg, serving as project leader. Moreover, there's a level of care that went into those two projects and some actual consideration of where Indy is at that given moment in his life that is absent from other gaming material. And, obviously, Emperor's Tomb disagrees with both the Max McCoy books and Temple of Doom itself.

So, include the Hal Barwood/Sophia Hapgood adventures as canonical, in my book - the original Indy 4 and Indy 5.

As for what those tell us about Indy's academic affiliations? Fate of Atlantis gives us our fullest portrait of Barnett College we've ever received, and Infernal Machine occurs entirely in the field, so apart from the Prima Guide, we don't know anything for sure. At any rate, Barnett seems more forgiving of Indy's extracurricular activities and tendency to be AWOL - they want him on staff, but they're glad to stick him into a boiler room to punish him a little.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:35 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I would include Fate of Atlantis and Infernal Machine, personally. This is due in part to Hal Barwood, a personal friend of Lucas and, I think, Spielberg, serving as project leader. Moreover, there's a level of care that went into those two projects and some actual consideration of where Indy is at that given moment in his life that is absent from other gaming material. And, obviously, Emperor's Tomb disagrees with both the Max McCoy books and Temple of Doom itself.

So, include the Hal Barwood/Sophia Hapgood adventures as canonical, in my book - the original Indy 4 and Indy 5.


I agree. A great deal of care was put into the "Fate of Atlantis" game, it really was well-written.

It seems like most Lucasfilm games eventually do have a printed tie-in of some kind (though the Staff of Kings novel was cancelled) which tell the "official" version of the tale, devoid of dying and resetting.

I have found from what limited amount of SW and Indy EU I have consumed that the video games are usually much, much better written than the novels, though, and I personally consider them far more "official" than the latter.

Quote:

At any rate, Barnett seems more forgiving of Indy's extracurricular activities and tendency to be AWOL - they want him on staff, but they're glad to stick him into a boiler room to punish him a little.

Given how much Indy bounced around from school to school, maybe he was still waiting for a "real" office when they stuck him in the closet at Barnett...
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:00 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Stoo
the Dark Horse, mini-digest, "Adventures Vol. 1" has him at Marshall in 1930!)

"Indiana Jones Adventures Volume 1" doesn't mention Marshall College at all. In fact, it strongly implies that Indy isn't currently working for any university, as Marcus suggests that Indy get himself "professorial work" and move in with his father, since expeditionary funding from the museum is drying up.


As for Volume 2, it is set in 1931. Indy is teaching at a college, but the institution is not specifically named. However, his office looks identical to the Barnett boiler room as seen in "Last Crusade."

So figure out how that all fits in!
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:17 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
I would include Fate of Atlantis and Infernal Machine, personally. This is due in part to Hal Barwood, a personal friend of Lucas and, I think, Spielberg, serving as project leader. Moreover, there's a level of care that went into those two projects and some actual consideration of where Indy is at that given moment in his life that is absent from other gaming material.

Sounds like they're pretty legitimate, then. It makes it difficult to shed the discrepancies...

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Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
I have found from what limited amount of SW and Indy EU I have consumed that the video games are usually much, much better written than the novels, though, and I personally consider them far more "official" than the latter.

That's an interesting thought, and it would go against what you'd expect to be the case.

I've never played an Indy game, but still do enjoy running around with a lightsaber in the 'Jedi Knight' series, and using Force Push to tip powerful enemies into deep chasms! I took my earlier view about dismissing the games by fact that I rarely spend time listening to all the story-building conversations in games, and escape out of them to return to the action.

If the games become novels or comics, it gives them greater canonical status (as with some of the Star Wars games).
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:19 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
And while we're on unreliable publications, Prima's Strategy Guide for Infernal Machine included a short prologue in which it is made clear that, while Indy is away investigating Babylonian mysteries, Henry Sr. is taking over Indy's courses at...Barnett College. And that's 1997. (Of course, this is as dubiously canonical as we can get.)
1997? That's even after the Old Indy bookends!
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Originally Posted by Lance Quazar
"Indiana Jones Adventures Volume 1" doesn't mention Marshall College at all. In fact, it strongly implies that Indy isn't currently working for any university, as Marcus suggests that Indy get himself "professorial work" and move in with his father, since expeditionary funding from the museum is drying up.

As for Volume 2, it is set in 1931. Indy is teaching at a college, but the institution is not specifically named. However, his office looks identical to the Barnett boiler room as seen in "Last Crusade."
Hey, Lance. Thanks for correcting me on Vol. 1. but I meant to write Vol. 2 in 1931. On the bottom of the page when Indy is in his Barnett-style boiler room he reads a telegram. In small print, it says, "Received at: Marshall College".
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:54 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Stoo
1997? That's even after the Old Indy bookends!
Hey, Lance. Thanks for correcting me on Vol. 1. but I meant to write Vol. 2 in 1931. On the bottom of the page when Indy is in his Barnett-style boiler room he reads a telegram. In small print, it says, "Received at: Marshall College".

Actually, it's Marcus that has received the telegram, not Indy. Still, great catch on that, it was very subtle.

So how does that tie into Marcus' timeline? This seems to confirm Marcus as working for Marshall - not just the museum - in 1931.

Clearly, despite the naming discrepancies, I think the filmmakers, general audience and guys like Ethan Beavers, the artist behind "Indy Adventures" all were operating under the assumption that Indy was always teaching at the same college.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:10 PM   #193
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Er, not really, not from that. The selection of a venue / orchestra with which to record a score is subject to all kinds of considerations (and FWIW, the Hollywood studio players who recorded the later movies' scores are quite fine).

If you absolutely must argue that the Indy saga is regarded with lesser consideration by Lucas(film) than its more lucrative sister franchise, frankly I think you would make a much better case citing the apparently more lax continuity guidelines for authors of the Indy "EA" (expanded adventures) than authors for the Star Wars EU have to conform to. That said... if it comes to actual investment - not just financial, but personal, creative involvement - I think Indy has arguably actually gotten the better end of the stick out of George, by virtue of all the labor of love he put into the Young Indy TV series, even after it was demonstrably unprofitable (as he predicted at its outset, IIRC), and indeed even years after the show was cancelled. To me, the entirety of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles / The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones argues compellingly that George is still quite passionate about his most famous Earthbound character and his adventures, regardless of how much money the series does or doesn't generate.

(Besides, if you want to compare Indiana Jones to Star Wars, it's also only fair to compare IJ to all those other Lucas creations that generate lesser box office and licensing revenues - American Graffiti, Willow, THX 1138, etc. In most contests, coming in second against more than two or three other contestants is not exactly doing horrible...)
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Old 02-21-2010, 04:40 PM   #194
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New update of the timeline(it's at the bottom of the thread).Let me know what you think! http://raven.theraider.net/showthrea...t=18429&page=3
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:36 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Does the name Marshall ever actually appear during Raiders? Barnett definitely appears on the Grail Diary package in Crusade.

Does it actually appear in the movie, can you see a close up of the grail diary package? I was re-watching the film and I could not find anywhere in the film where the college he is teaching at is mentioned by name or shown on screen. If you don't see the name on screen then why would they bother making him switch schools. I know Marshall College is never named in Raiders, only the novelization mentions it by name paying homage to Frank Marshall.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:33 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by dr.jones1986
Does it actually appear in the movie, can you see a close up of the grail diary package? I was re-watching the film and I could not find anywhere in the film where the college he is teaching at is mentioned by name or shown on screen. If you don't see the name on screen then why would they bother making him switch schools. I know Marshall College is never named in Raiders, only the novelization mentions it by name paying homage to Frank Marshall.

Based on when I posted that, I suspect I referred to an image of the actual package prop as seen in From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: The Best of the Lucasfilm Archives, as opposed to the easily findable replica props viewable online, which might be influenced by extratextual sources.

I won't make a stronger claim than that without checking the film, but certainly props could be seen on screen, and are designed as such. Naming the school Barnett is a definite choice, seeing as it's a change from what they had before.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:45 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
Based on when I posted that, I suspect I referred to an image of the actual package prop as seen in From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: The Best of the Lucasfilm Archives, as opposed to the easily findable replica props viewable online, which might be influenced by extratextual sources.

I won't make a stronger claim than that without checking the film, but certainly props could be seen on screen, and are designed as such. Naming the school Barnett is a definite choice, seeing as it's a change from what they had before.

I was just curious if there was anything definitive on screen. I do not have that book, but I do have the "Lost Journal" which shows a copy of the package (not sure if it is exactly the same) which is shows the grail diary being mailed to Barnett College. I saw the screen caps of the sign earlier in the thread though they were somewhat blurry.
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