Jay R. Zay
New member
i feel it would help johnny to understand the issue he is talking about a little better if i can clarify a few points. he unfortunately from time to time loses a little bit of his footing when he tries to play the moralist.
i never did. in fact, my original line was:
got confused or was "earlier today" so long ago that you couldn't remember what it was?
my idea of suicide is people killing themselves, not people taking joy in letting others share their problems. if Mariah has a problem and wants to discuss it, she can have all my patience and sympathy and advice. i'm very willing to help others with their problems, no matter what they are. but Mariah didn't ask for help. she didn't tell us she was desperate. she rather decided to let uns know that she would commit suicide now, suddenly, without ever having told us about her problems. now i wonder - if she never believed her problems were our business, why would she discuss her suicide with us? the way she put it, the decision is done so what use would such a pice of information be if we can't change it? that we get a bad conscience? why?
the other option is that she does not want to commit suicide. either she has the idea to do so (which every normal human being has from time to time) or she hasn't this intention at all. in both cases, her reply would have been egoistic and aiming for us to get hysteric.
from all i know, and i've probably dealt with this subject more thoroughly than you, most of the people who enjoy letting the world know that they will be the helpless witnesses of a suicide, don't actually want to kill themselves but to get attention. i think we can all agree that Mariah's reply focused on getting attention, can't we? she doesn't explain, she doesn't ask for help, she just informs us.
this doesn't make a good impression on me. every day, people commit suicides that have serious peoples. i've had serious problems in my life as well. and i've often thought about committing suicide. but i've NEVER burdened anyone with these problems, especially nobody who i didn't know well. telling you or anybody else i know from the internet about my terminal decision to kill myself would be the last thing to come to my mind. if i have problems and if i would like to discuss them with any of you (which i don't and wouldn't), i would do so before letting you know that time's up, i'm dead.
my sympathy is something that i distribute whereever i feel it is right and so should every self dependent human being. it is nothing that somebody can demand. and when i read that somebody, mariah, you, anyone, demands my sympathy by writing an egoistic "now you have a bad conscience"-remark, this is not where i want to show my sympathy.
what could we have done`? told her not to do it? she didn't ask us for our opinion. if she wants my opinion, she can ask for it, not dictate me terminal facts and impatiently wait for protest "noo! don't do it! life is colorful and sweet! and i love you! we need you!". and then she can say "okay, jay, convincing enough, i'll do you the favor and stay alive".
is this what you expect from me? if you were so anxious to keep her alive at all costs, you could have made a thread like "mariah, don't do this" instead of "jay, don't do this". did you give a second thought to her when you wrote your reply? no. you focused on critizising me (your favorite hobby) by inventing stories about what i might have said but didn't (your favorite means). you can't tell me that YOU would do anything to save her life. jesus, exactly YOU are not the guy to play the moralist. you wanna kill everybody who wants to stay alive but when somebody wants to die, you have a problem again. are you unhappy when people have what they want? it seems so.
so, a little conclusion. most probably, she isn't dead. as some people assumed (i don't take part in these is-it-a-fake-account-discussions), she isn't even Mariah. if she is dead - well, many people die. we'll have to live with it and if she was as determined as she pretended to be, there was nothing in this world my reply or your reply or indyfans reply would have changed. no matter, what the truth is, letting a board of people that you don't have much to do with, partly young people, positive people, ... know that you are going to commit suicide out of the blue, is selfish, egoistic, inconsiderate, unnecessary and very probably vindictive. the same kind of attitude (although in a weaker version) that people have who, for example, who douse themselves in gasoline on a crowdy market place and inflame themselves in front of these people, dying happily in the awareness of the fact that many people won't be able to sleep that night after what they've seen. deliberately involving others in problems that you kept none of their business until it was too late, is simply awful and indyfan was entirely correct with his statement. whatever mariah's intention was - it definitely was not well-meant as far as we are concerned. and somebody who plays with the feelings of other people, no matter if it is the last minute of his life or not, is somebody i don't accept. i think we should say so forthright, i don't believe that indyfan and i are the only ones to have this impression.
and on a barely personal note, johnny, learn keep your jolly bashing on a level that doesn't breed any misunderstandings.
i never did. in fact, my original line was:
got confused or was "earlier today" so long ago that you couldn't remember what it was?
my idea of suicide is people killing themselves, not people taking joy in letting others share their problems. if Mariah has a problem and wants to discuss it, she can have all my patience and sympathy and advice. i'm very willing to help others with their problems, no matter what they are. but Mariah didn't ask for help. she didn't tell us she was desperate. she rather decided to let uns know that she would commit suicide now, suddenly, without ever having told us about her problems. now i wonder - if she never believed her problems were our business, why would she discuss her suicide with us? the way she put it, the decision is done so what use would such a pice of information be if we can't change it? that we get a bad conscience? why?
the other option is that she does not want to commit suicide. either she has the idea to do so (which every normal human being has from time to time) or she hasn't this intention at all. in both cases, her reply would have been egoistic and aiming for us to get hysteric.
from all i know, and i've probably dealt with this subject more thoroughly than you, most of the people who enjoy letting the world know that they will be the helpless witnesses of a suicide, don't actually want to kill themselves but to get attention. i think we can all agree that Mariah's reply focused on getting attention, can't we? she doesn't explain, she doesn't ask for help, she just informs us.
this doesn't make a good impression on me. every day, people commit suicides that have serious peoples. i've had serious problems in my life as well. and i've often thought about committing suicide. but i've NEVER burdened anyone with these problems, especially nobody who i didn't know well. telling you or anybody else i know from the internet about my terminal decision to kill myself would be the last thing to come to my mind. if i have problems and if i would like to discuss them with any of you (which i don't and wouldn't), i would do so before letting you know that time's up, i'm dead.
my sympathy is something that i distribute whereever i feel it is right and so should every self dependent human being. it is nothing that somebody can demand. and when i read that somebody, mariah, you, anyone, demands my sympathy by writing an egoistic "now you have a bad conscience"-remark, this is not where i want to show my sympathy.
what could we have done`? told her not to do it? she didn't ask us for our opinion. if she wants my opinion, she can ask for it, not dictate me terminal facts and impatiently wait for protest "noo! don't do it! life is colorful and sweet! and i love you! we need you!". and then she can say "okay, jay, convincing enough, i'll do you the favor and stay alive".
is this what you expect from me? if you were so anxious to keep her alive at all costs, you could have made a thread like "mariah, don't do this" instead of "jay, don't do this". did you give a second thought to her when you wrote your reply? no. you focused on critizising me (your favorite hobby) by inventing stories about what i might have said but didn't (your favorite means). you can't tell me that YOU would do anything to save her life. jesus, exactly YOU are not the guy to play the moralist. you wanna kill everybody who wants to stay alive but when somebody wants to die, you have a problem again. are you unhappy when people have what they want? it seems so.
so, a little conclusion. most probably, she isn't dead. as some people assumed (i don't take part in these is-it-a-fake-account-discussions), she isn't even Mariah. if she is dead - well, many people die. we'll have to live with it and if she was as determined as she pretended to be, there was nothing in this world my reply or your reply or indyfans reply would have changed. no matter, what the truth is, letting a board of people that you don't have much to do with, partly young people, positive people, ... know that you are going to commit suicide out of the blue, is selfish, egoistic, inconsiderate, unnecessary and very probably vindictive. the same kind of attitude (although in a weaker version) that people have who, for example, who douse themselves in gasoline on a crowdy market place and inflame themselves in front of these people, dying happily in the awareness of the fact that many people won't be able to sleep that night after what they've seen. deliberately involving others in problems that you kept none of their business until it was too late, is simply awful and indyfan was entirely correct with his statement. whatever mariah's intention was - it definitely was not well-meant as far as we are concerned. and somebody who plays with the feelings of other people, no matter if it is the last minute of his life or not, is somebody i don't accept. i think we should say so forthright, i don't believe that indyfan and i are the only ones to have this impression.
and on a barely personal note, johnny, learn keep your jolly bashing on a level that doesn't breed any misunderstandings.