Disney's Frozen

kongisking

Active member
Okay, been deliberately holding off talking about this to wait until I'd seen it more than once to properly analyze and absorb it. Now that I've seen it twice, I think I can now accurately judge it.

Has anyone seen this yet? If not, and you consider yourself to have even a smidgen of love for Disney, you owe it to yourself to give this a look. I have been vocal (obnoxiously so) about my affection for Enchanted and Tangled, but Frozen is the first Disney movie in a long while that genuinely moved me like the Renaissance films did with its story, characters, and message. My barometer for how truly good a Disney movie is if it makes you weep (in a good way), and this did so, so hey, I thought it was great.

The voice acting is superb by everyone. Even that snowman character, who looked Jar-Jar-level annoying in the trailers, turned out to be genuinely lovable and a really good character. But the two biggest strengths of this one are the songs, and the animation. I mean, holy cow. I am a huge fan of Disney in 2D, but this film makes one heckuva argument for why CGI can be equally effective. The snow and ice effects are breathtaking, as is the superb and subtle animation of the characters. Anna and Elsa both register so strongly partly because their animation feels so real, so sincere, so genuine.

And those songs...hey, I loved the ones in Enchanted and Tangled too, but this stuff is the best since The Lion King. A hilarious and sweet number about Anna's excitement over meeting new people, an effective and atmospheric opening tune that brought back memories of Brother Bear, and one song that had me laughing, feeling sympathy, and then outright holding back tears within only three minutes.

But the show-stopper, as you all may have heard, is 'Let it Go', sung by that living personification of phenomenal singing called Idina Menzel. A powerful, exhilarating and joyous power ballad, this sucker belongs up there with the all-time great "don't give a crap anymore" songs. I wanted to stand up and clap after this one, people. I mean, damn.

The only gripes I have are ones that, if you think about them, are actually quite ingenious subversions of the Disney formula, so they don't bother me too much. For instance, there's no real front-and-center villain, which is kind of a let-down as Disney Villains are one of the things I look forward to most with new animated canon features from this company. Also, the third act does get into some cliches for a while, but, avoiding spoilers here, there is a purpose to that which makes it all worth it in the end.

By the end of this movie, I felt an incredible rush of gratitude toward Disney. This is the movie that should convince the skeptical that they still have that amazing magic that made them titans in the first place, and I absolutely can't wait to see their next one. Frozen was a utter delight, and if any of you are parents, you can't possibly do better than this for a nice family outing this holiday season. Seriously, people, please see it. Reward Disney for their marvelous work here, they deserve the money this time.

And if anyone else has seen it already, I'd love to hear some other thoughts and opinions. :hat:
 

russds

New member
@kongisking my fellow Tangled lover. :) Yes, I saw it. I thought it was really good. I did just see it once, and my enjoyment of it has been growing, but for me, it wasn't quiet as good as Tangled. Just comparing those two, since they are both from the same sort of universe. But on it's own, it's probably one of the best movies I've seen in a while. Top 2-3 this year. (another one that comes to mind is Gravity)

I really liked the animation, and yes, the snow man, Olaf (sp?) was much, *much* better than I expected. Man, when he said, "I have no skull.......or bones" i died....man, I'm still laughing about it, his face, the way he says it, oh man, ....gold! He was perfectly animated and cast. There are so many good scenes in it that almost every scene I really enjoyed. I loved the animation on Elsa's hand as it shakes from nervousness to pickup the staff and ball at her coronation. I loved almost every burst of snow from Elsa, and when she built her castle. The animation throughout the movie is just incredible really.

I really can't wait to get it on bluray and watch it a few times. I've still got the catchy songs stuck in my head, and I love the 'act of true love' at the end, I thought it was a really nice ending.

It really is a spectacular movie, great story, great characters, acting, songs, etc. It's got everything really. It's a movie I can easily see watching it at home multiple times with my kids. I'll probably get it on bluray pretty quick.
 

kongisking

Active member
russds said:
It really is a spectacular movie, great story, great characters, acting, songs, etc. It's got everything really. It's a movie I can easily see watching it at home multiple times with my kids. I'll probably get it on bluray pretty quick.

All those little moments and details you mention stuck out to me too.

And as of right now, Tangled and Frozen are having a very, very, very close arm-wrestling match for rights to the title of Kongisking's Favorite Modern Disney Animated Film. When I said Frozen moved me more than Tangled, I don't mean it as a knock against that. I simply mean that on my many viewings of Tangled, I was touched, sure, but tears have yet to form. But this? Second viewing, fighting those little babies back with all my might.

I'll say this, though, Rapunzel has some serious competition in the "so adorably dorky you wish they were real so you could talk to them" department with Anna. Seriously, can't decide which one is cuter, characterization-wise (and, okay, fine, design wise. Both are pretty freakin' lovable-looking). Heck, both grew up in isolation resulting in goofy social skills. Can you not love it?

And this is a Blu-ray buy for me, too, absolutely.

@Goodeknight, thank you for the great laugh.
 
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roundshort

Active member
OK - long time Disney fan, I finally saw Frozen. I had been very curios about this movie because of its amazing $$ success. it seems to be breaking records all over the place. It also seems to be the first Disney movie in LONG time to have real staying power with kids - which I am sure will result in the desired results in moving lots of products. I am not being cynical - I think this is great for Disney.

I thought it was a fine movie. As I get older and have no kids I find it harder to relate to movies like this. I try to remind myself who the movie is made for and just be entertained. I personally do not think that it has the mass appeal of other Disney classics - but that is not my point. My point is - will it be a one off successful movie - OR - will it trigger the next golden age of Disney animated movies?

I AM KEEPING PIXAR SEPERATE

To me Disney had a great run of classic keep all ages happy movies from Snow White in 1937 to Robin Hood in 1973. Sure there were some clunkers but it is hard to dispute the quality of story telling and production value. With the exceptions of The Rescuers and Fox & the Hound the mid 70's and 80's were pretty clunky for Disney. Little Mermaid seemed to reignite the classic master story telling of Disney in 89 and lined up the next golden age from 1989 to 1994 with these now classics - Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin, and the Lion King. While several of the movies since them have won awards and done very well $$$$ wise in theaters and DVD I would argue none have really been TOP Notch Disney classics.


Here is what I ask -

Will Frozen be an A-list (or maybe I should say E ticket movie like Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Lion King, etc) or a B-list or worse?

Does it really stack up to other great Disney movies or is it too Fem power, and PC and lack the true evil element of the greats?

Will there ever be another great Disney Animated dynasty?
 

roundshort

Active member
Ok I will list my A-List Disney animated Movies (remember Pixar is a totally separate conversation) & B list

? - means I am being generous and it could be dropped to a lower tier

A List (The Classic Disney Movie that Have and will stand the test of time both is story and production value)

Snow White
Fantasia
Dumbo
Bambi
Pinocchio
Cinderella
Alice in Wonderland (?)
Peter Pan
Sleeping Beauty
101 Dalmatians
Jungle Book
Robin Hood
Little Mermaid
Beauty & the Beast
Aladdin
Lion King

B List - something is great like story, production value but just not the whole pacake

Lady & the Tramp
Sword & the Stone
Aristocats (?)
Rescuers (could be argued it is an A list)
Fox & the Hound
Hercules (?)
Pocahontas (?)
Mulan
Lilo & Stich (?)
Emperors New Groove (?)
Brother Bear
Tangled (?)
Wreck it Ralph (?)
The Princess & the Frog (?)

All the rest are either junk, or made for DVD $$$$
What have I missed?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
roundshort said:
Ok I will list my A-List Disney animated Movies (remember Pixar is a totally separate conversation) & B list

? - means I am being generous and it could be dropped to a lower tier

A List (The Classic Disney Movie that Have and will stand the test of time both is story and production value)

Snow White
Fantasia
Dumbo
Bambi
Pinocchio
Cinderella
Alice in Wonderland (?)
Peter Pan
Sleeping Beauty
101 Dalmatians
Jungle Book
Robin Hood
Little Mermaid
Beauty & the Beast
Aladdin
Lion King

B List - something is great like story, production value but just not the whole pacake

Lady & the Tramp
Sword & the Stone
Aristocats (?)
Rescuers (could be argued it is an A list)
Fox & the Hound
Hercules (?)
Pocahontas (?)
Mulan
Lilo & Stich (?)
Emperors New Groove (?)
Brother Bear
Tangled (?)
Wreck it Ralph (?)
The Princess & the Frog (?)

All the rest are either junk, or made for DVD $$$$
What have I missed?


Of the B list, There are a couple of films that I believe are great films. Tangled should be moved up, to A...it's solid all around and I think it's the first of films for Disney that feature stronger characters with a compelling musical theater background. I think it started the trend, with Frozen to follow. Film to Stage, I suspect, is the brainstorming process.

I also thought the raport between David Spade and John Goodman was perfect in Emperor. Mind you Erzma killed it. I understand why you have it as a B film. Funny you have BroBear as a lesser. ;)

Of your A list, the last four are definately as they say: in the "golden age of Disney Animation". Subjectively I don't agree the animation is on par with, say...the cell work of a film like Jungle Book, but undoubtedly they were blowing the competition out of the water.

From a detail point of view, I think Frozen is solidly on course with the new animation direction Disney is going:

F3vAej2.gif


The hair, the eyes, the lift and fall of the face and chest. So meticulous.

O11gubs.gif


How's that for cell work. Oh right, it's not 2D anymore.
 

roundshort

Active member
great feed back Pale. I get what you are saying with Tangled, for my money I would bump The Princess and Frog to A before Tangled, but in the end - to me anyhow - they both just fall short of legend.

For me personally Brother Bear (or at least one character is A+ list) would be bumped up...

I also agree with Jungle Book being on the bubble. But I think that was a style they went for. Also the original story is well - perfect.

About Frozen. I feel the paintings in the dance scene remind me of the portraits in the Haunted Mansion....
 

russds

New member
Pale Horse said:
F3vAej2.gif

The hair, the eyes, the lift and fall of the face and chest. So meticulous.
Agree. Did you notice the lip bite too? It's really incredible how much meticulous detail is going into animation these days. Each frame is a work of art.

I would generally say Disney is running on all cylinders these days and in the midst of a dynasty. The creative crew is really focused and putting out some real gems. It could be too early to say, but I would imagine, if a new CEO comes in, or some big names leave Disney, (mostly John Lasseter) we would most likely look back at this period (2010-?) as a Golden area for Disney Animation.
 

kongisking

Active member
russds said:
Agree. Did you notice the lip bite too?

Sorry, friends and enemies. I'm going to not be on the Raven for a while. Gonna be too busy watching that utterly adorable GIF nonstop.... :p
 

kongisking

Active member
featofstrength said:
I cant get past the modern, musical theatre fluff to want to give the rest of this movie a chance.

So you're basically saying "I can't give this movie a chance for being, well, a Disney movie." :p

I'm also amused by the backhanded dismissal of musical theater in general. Not one for the arts, apparently...
 
kongisking said:
So you're basically saying "I can't give this movie a chance for being, well, a Disney movie." :p

I'm also amused by the backhanded dismissal of musical theater in general. Not one for the arts, apparently...

Did you miss the words "modern" and "fluff" in haste to be a dick in yet another forum topic?

Quite the fan of Adele Dazeem? Or do I need to fax you my credentials to show I do know something about theatre? Though the difference in the spelling of "theatre" and "theater" tells me enough...
 
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Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
featofstrength said:
Though the difference in the spelling of "theatre" and "theater" tells me enough...

Seeing as I used the word, differently too:
In most contexts, there is no difference in meaning between theater and theatre. Neither has any special definitions in general usage. The main thing that most English speakers and learners need to know is that theater is the preferred spelling in American English, and theatre is preferred virtually everywhere else.

Some Americans do make distinctions?for instance, that a theater is a venue while theatre is an art form, or that a theater is a movie theater while a theatre is a drama venue. There is nothing wrong with making these distinctions, but they are not consistently borne out in general usage. Even in 21st-century writing on the art of theater, the more American spelling now appears for all senses of the word.
 

roundshort

Active member
I will not argue that Frozen is a beautiful animated movie. I am not a huge fan of the skin tone they went with as it makes skin look like rubber. But things like the footprints in the snow are amazing.

I did think the number of songs where heavy handed and I have to imagine this is what Glee was like (I have never seen it) I guess Disney is pandering to the what people what to see and that is cool

The reason why Frozen does not do it for me is the lack of a truly evil threat. I never felt any fear or concern. It seemed Disney was more concerned about making a princess movie where the strong female roles cold work it out with out a dashing prince to save was WAY belabored. They even took it to the point where the only prince in the movie was as close as it had to a villain.

Again, good movie, beautiful movie. I am it is a hit and people love it but not true legend Disney.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
roundshort said:
The reason why Frozen does not do it for me is the lack of a truly evil threat. I never felt any fear or concern...

While not a current concern of mine, it's clear you've never encountered the cold hearted woman bent on narcissism. I envy you for that. :p

But the past is in the past, pale. Let it go.
 

roundshort

Active member
Pale Horse said:
While not a current concern of mine, it's clear you've never encountered the cold hearted woman bent on narcissism. I envy you for that. :p

But the past is in the past, pale. Let it go.

You can not compare what's her name from Frozen to the Witch in Snow White for narcissism. That is still the gold standard for that!

And you are correct I have had 99 problems (well more actually) and that has never been one!
 

kongisking

Active member
featofstrength said:
Did you miss the words "modern" and "fluff" in haste to be a dick in yet another forum topic?

Quite the fan of Adele Dazeem? Or do I need to fax you my credentials to show I do know something about theatre? Though the difference in the spelling of "theatre" and "theater" tells me enough...

Pale basically defended the alternate spelling before I could, so I'll ignore that one...

My annoyance was your usage of "modern" and "fluff" to describe these songs. Maybe I'm just delusional, but precisely why these songs are so amazing and one in particular is already a pop culture staple, is because they evoke the best tunes from the Renaissance films. I would not call that "modern" OR "fluff". Your comments made no sense and were unfair to the film. Hence my attitude.

And skin looking like rubber? Maybe I'm blind as well...

And I don't do this stuff to be a dick. But maaaaan, a lot of the posters on this site have a nasty habit of making comments that are either grossly unfair, don't quite make a lot of sense, or are simply poorly-explained, thus leading to huge misunderstandings.

And here's a plot twist: I do it a lot too. But when I'm called out on it, I can admit it and apologize.

P.S. I am, in fact, a fan of Idina Menzel. You're within your right to now fully ignore all I said and write me off as biased.
 

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
roundshort said:
Here is what I ask -

Will Frozen be an A-list (or maybe I should say E ticket movie like Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Lion King, etc) or a B-list or worse?

Does it really stack up to other great Disney movies or is it too Fem power, and PC and lack the true evil element of the greats?

Will there ever be another great Disney Animated dynasty?

Frozen is pretty much considered an A-picture already whether you like it or not. It was huge at the box office(almost 400 million domestic and over a billion worldwide) it had "legs" in a time when no movie has legs anymore, won 2 Oscars, and the film has been embraced by everyone from critics to the general public; you literally can't escape "Let It Go". You have to go back to The Lion King, to find a success from Disney's Animation department(excluding Pixar) that's comparable.

That said, to expand from my mini-review from above, I agree that I didn't find Frozen that great. Compared to Wreck-It-Ralph, an excellent and original family adventure that pushed Disney animation into exciting new directions, I thought Frozen was a pretty basic and by-the-notes tale in comparison outside a few minor "twists". It could be just because Disney has bombarded us with Princess stuff through their marketing over the last decade or so but, as a male, I felt a little bored with the idea of more princesses. But then again, I really enjoyed Tangled and thought it was about as good as the "90s renaissance" films so it could be Frozen's storytelling that's lacking, as well as the characters not being all that engaging.

Of course, the females seem to really love it, so that must mean it was doing a lot of things right(even my Mom really loves "Let It Go"). What I'm really curious about though is Big Hero 6, which follows Wreck-It-Ralph's inventiveness and does something never done with Disney animation before(adapt a Marvel comic). Will it become a big hit and continue the potential "renaissance" we're living in of exciting and successful Disney features or will it disappoint and ultimately make Frozen's success a fluke?
 
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