He chose... poorly.

Kooshmeister

Kooshmeister

New member
Agent Spalko said:
There's a reason why the Grail has never been recovered. That is the reason. It can't leave the temple. If there wasn't a reason then it would be just another worthless cup gathering dust in a museum. Scientists would try to examine it for authenticity and try to determine if it has magical properties but since it doesn't beyond the seal they would probably disregard it as being anything more than a cup from the period and would have no empiracal evidence to support the fact that it was the cup of Christ other than the word of an archeologist's testimony.
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This brings up the rather interesting question of what was the trigger? Obviously, the Grail wasn't always in that temple. So how exactly was it put into effect that once the knight(s) or whoever took it there, it could never leave? It worked outside the temple prior to being brought there, so what divine power made it so it would stop if it left once it arrived? And if it's worthless outside the temple, why the traps? Why even bother? Just because even if powerless it would still be the Cup of Christ?
 
Agent Spalko

Agent Spalko

Guest
The Knights of the Crusade placed it in the temple and probably gave it a blessing of enchantment and blessed the temple as well. Since they were in Communion with God, he probably told them in dreams or visions or a burning bush or however God speaks to mortals. Anyway, you'll have to ask God why he made it conditionally.
 
Kooshmeister

Kooshmeister

New member
That works.

Although, its powers being negated upon leaving makes the entire race to stop Donovan and the Nazis (not to mention Kazim's ominous warning) kind of pointless in the end if all they'd wind up with was a wooden cup.
 
Kooshmeister

Kooshmeister

New member
I know that. But me, after I heard the Knight say that, I would've just walked out and headed for the closest bar in Hatay, ruminating on spending all that time and money on something I can't even use. Oh, uh, after saving Henry of course.
 
Quickening

Quickening

New member
No-one knew that opening the Ark of the Covenant would basically kill everyone present either. Although if I recall correctly, in the novel the old man that Sallah takez Indy to see translates this fact from the medallion which is how Indy knew to close his eyes.

Bit off topic but the scientific conclusion is the same, God is a real bastard.
 
Agent Spalko

Agent Spalko

Guest
Quickening said:
No-one knew that opening the Ark of the Covenant would basically kill everyone present either. Although if I recall correctly, in the novel the old man that Sallah takez Indy to see translates this fact from the medallion which is how Indy knew to close his eyes.

Bit off topic but the scientific conclusion is the same, God is a real bastard.
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He certainly was in the Old Testament.
 
B

Bat-Dude

New member
Kooshmeister said:
This brings up the rather interesting question of what was the trigger? Obviously, the Grail wasn't always in that temple. So how exactly was it put into effect that once the knight(s) or whoever took it there, it could never leave? It worked outside the temple prior to being brought there, so what divine power made it so it would stop if it left once it arrived? And if it's worthless outside the temple, why the traps? Why even bother? Just because even if powerless it would still be the Cup of Christ?
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Magnets

;)

j/k :p
 
Agent Spalko

Agent Spalko

Guest
The traps are not designed to prevent the Grail from leaving the temple, they are designed to keep people from entering the temple. Only he who is worthy enough to pass the 3 challenges will prove his worth. After that, if they decide to leave with it, that's their problem. Crossing the holy seal triggers the temple to collapse because it's no longer of any use and then the cup is worthless anyway which is probably why Henry tells Indiana to let it go. He knows it's of no use to them other than a museum piece and nobody would have believed their fantastic tale and accepted it as the actual cup of Christ anyway.
 
D

DetectiveFork

New member
Agent Spalko said:
How could Walter Donovan, an obsessive relic collector, not have known that the grail was made of clay? You would think that such a man obsessed would have done his research about it. Not to mention the fact that there is a shelf full of false grails that he has to choose from like game show, all made out of precious metals and jewels, and one oddball cup of a carpenter sticks out like a sore thumb. Shouldn't this have rung any bells?
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I would have laughed if he had chosen the bowl. Dude, that's not even a cup!
 
Quickening

Quickening

New member
DetectiveFork said:
I would have laughed if he had chosen the bowl. Dude, that's not even a cup!
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You laugh but sometimes, on Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade the graphic adventure, the bowl IS the true Grail :eek:

That God guy is a REAL sneak.
 
B

Bat-Dude

New member
So...if the Grail only has its mystical properties while in the cave and is nothing but a wooden cup outside of the cave and you have to best three traps to even get to it...kinda makes you wonder what the whole point is. Wouldn't the point just be the faith derived from the story, in which case only the story of the Grail is needed...so why go to all the trouble; especially if removing the Grail is going to set off a final trap that has a dang good chance of destroying it altogether?
 
Agent Spalko

Agent Spalko

Guest
But that's the point. The quest for the cup of Christ is the search for the divine in all of us. Only those who have faith and are willing to devote themselves to serving God for eternity shall be rewarded with everlasting life. All others need not apply.
 
B

Bat-Dude

New member
I guess what I mean is, since it is about the quest only, then what's the point of preserving it as it's preserved in the movie? It better serves its purpose as a metaphor rather than an actual object to be discovered, since if you truly believe in Christianity anyway the matter of true importance is believing in Jesus Christ as the son of God. If you have faith in that, then you also believe you'll have eternal life, Grail or no Grail - and then the Grail truly becomes pointless...maybe I'm just thinking myself in circles...:p bleh :sleep:
 
Kooshmeister

Kooshmeister

New member
Agent Spalko said:
The quest for the cup of Christ is the search for the divine in all of us.
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I thought it was a race against evil. And that the armies of darkness would march all over the Earth. :D

Ironic that Marcus wound up being correct while Grail expert Henry knew nothing beyond the tests.
 
Niteshade007

Niteshade007

New member
Bat-Dude said:
I guess what I mean is, since it is about the quest only, then what's the point of preserving it as it's preserved in the movie? It better serves its purpose as a metaphor rather than an actual object to be discovered, since if you truly believe in Christianity anyway the matter of true importance is believing in Jesus Christ as the son of God. If you have faith in that, then you also believe you'll have eternal life, Grail or no Grail - and then the Grail truly becomes pointless...maybe I'm just thinking myself in circles...:p bleh :sleep:
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Well, you can't go for a quest for something that isn't there, so that gives it some value. If it wasn't there, then risking your life for nothing seems rather stupid. Also, Henry Sr. would have died without the grail's healing power, although Elsa would have lived if the grail didn't exist at all. I suppose Donovan would have as well. Unless there were just a bunch of fake grails as a cruel trick and no real grail. Hmm...maybe after Donovan died, the Grail Knight could have been like "Okay, I'm just kidding. These are all fake. Hope it wasn't too much trouble getting here. You can show yourselves out, right?"
 
HellofaSandwich

HellofaSandwich

New member
The Man said:
Let's face it, folks: Elsa was a super-ho. She probably slept with every man who could further her acquisition of the Grail. Donovan, both Jones', maybe even Vogel. Given enough time, dear old Marcus could have boned her too.
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Wasn't there an earlier version of the Last Crusade script where it's made clear that Elsa has also shared a bed with Hitler?
 
Von Stalhein

Von Stalhein

Member
The Man said:
Let's face it, folks: Elsa was a super-ho. She probably slept with every man who could further her acquisition of the Grail. Donovan, both Jones', maybe even Vogel. Given enough time, dear old Marcus could have boned her too.
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What evidence is there for her having slept with the two bold characters?
 
oliverjones18

oliverjones18

Member
^^i dont think there is any evidence she only slept with indy and henry to gain there trust. Vogel and Donavon already trusted her why make it weird?
 
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