Forrestal

Ok arent we discussing here why the hell did Lucas throw the Forrestal character in on the movie??

well i dont have any idea why he did that, there are much more solutions or things to throw in a movie, but maybe he just wanted to create some kind of dark and mysterious sphere around the Indy character, but hey what do i know im just an Indy fan :p
 

INDYfatigable

New member
Rubix, i hate to contradict you but the movie is actually called finding Forrester. Did you mean to substitute the names?
 

IndyBuff

Well-known member
Forrestal is certainly a character that I've wondered about (especially after watching Raiders last night :) ) and I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and theories about him in this thread.

To me, he's someone who you have to speculate about because we have so few facts on him: he's a competitor of Indy's, he was good, very very good and then "cashed in" at the temple. However, that's pretty much were the facts end and it's too bad that MacGreggor, Caidin and McCoy never thought to put him the novels because he would have been great and we would probably know much more about him. However, that's part of the fun of it too: you can really use your imagination and view him as anything you want (grave robber, friend-turned-enemy of Dr. Jones, etc.) That's sort of the way I look at it anyway. :)
 
I'd like to see the next generation Indy game involve Forrestal. It could take place after ToD and before Raiders or before Emperor's Tomb. He could be an interesting character for Indy to compete with in a game.
 

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
Or, perhaps, play as Forrestal leading up-to the events that led to his death? (we don't see it, the game ends "happy", but we all know what happens after the game)
 

Paden

Member
A couple of ideas I've had regarding Forrestal for some time:

1. Given his death in the Chachapoyan Temple, I've always presumed that Forrestal had a certain degree of physical prowess, and like his rival Indy, did not shy away from the physically dangerous side of his quests. By contrast, I've never considered Belloq to have been especially physical in his work, primarily succeeding through cleverness and guile. I've always thought of Forrestal as one who was willing to roll up his sleeves and get his hands dirty, exploring the lost tombs and facing the dangers presented by them, as well as his competitors. In short, I see him as very close to Indiana in his approach to their mutual profession. Which leads me to...

2. Indy's comment about Forrestal as he prepares to enter the Temple always struck me as one of respect, albeit grudging respect. To me, it seemed that Jones was acknowledging the capabilities of an able and successful competitor. At least to my ears, I have never picked up in the statement the kind of venom/disdain we hear in Indy's references to Belloq. From that, I've always inferred that Indy saw Forrestal as an honest competitor (honest as grave robbing archaeologists go, anyway). One that held to a certain unspoken code not that different from Indy's, and one that would succeed over his rivals through determination and the use of superior information, not treachery or deception.
 
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Stoo

Well-known member
Paden. I agree with both of your comments especially the thought that the
man actually took physical risks rather than resting on the laurels of others,
Belloq-style. Because of his "begrudging respect" for the recently deceased,
I would suspect that Indy had *lost* to Forrestal on more than one occasion.
After the mention of Belloq to Marcus in the classroom scene, a small circle of
rivalry amongst Indy and his contemporaries is clear.

I like to assume that Mr. Forrestal was British thus creating a succinct,
triangular conflict and a nice tip o' the hat to the ever-classic, British
archaeologist character from so many films & stories past. (Plus, it looks
like he has an ascot or something similar around his neck).

It was always my impression that Forrestal, himself, triggered the trap by
accident and was, thus, not savvy like Jones...Only recently have I noticed
that the spikes are AHEAD of the sunbeam and not between Indy & Satipo as
it always seemed. This has changed my mind about Forrestal's inferiority since
the trap may have been sprung by his guide/partner/whatnot following behind,
before they fled for their life. :eek:

The only external reference to the guy (that I know of) can be found in the
#4 Marvel comic, "Gateway to Infinity":
-------------------------------------
Professor Karen Mays (to Indy): ...enjoyed very much your paper on the
pre-Viking relics you unearthed at the Coolay digs. That was a brilliant find,
especially after Forrestal had already determined the area to be barren".

...and, as Aaron suggested, a story surrounding the events that lead to
the "Raiders" opening would be a good one...
 

IndyBuff

Well-known member
It seems that Forrestal is a competitor partly due to the fact that he doesn't mind braving tombs and taking on challenges and traps, just like Indy. Perhaps he always gets to a site first and takes everything of value, often leaving Indy and others with little or nothing.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
4+ Year BUMP!:eek:
----
"Ultimate Guide" says this:

SEARCH FOR THE GOLDEN IDOL
"Rumors of an ancient Chachapoyan temple yet to be plundered by treasure-hunters had circulated in archaeological circles for fifty years. The Peruvian site was said to be located close to a lonely summit known locally as El Panal - the Bee Hive - and a dangerous cataract called "Dead Man Falls." Now Indy has a map - part of one, at any rate: a centuries old piece of parchment that details some of the route to the temple. More importantly, he has the will to succeed where so many others have failed."

AMERICAN IDOL
"When a score of golden Chachapoyan figurines begin to appear on the antiquities maket, Indy and Marcus Brody, curator of the National Museum, believe that new Chachapoyan temples have been located and are being plundered. All evidence points to one of Indy's competitors, a Princeton archaeologist named Forrestal, who had embarked on an expedition to Peru a year earlier and had yet to return. With help from the journal of a 19th century explorer and contacts in South America, Indy decides to follow in Forrestal's footsteps, determined to acquire the real prize; a golden representation of the Chachapoyan goddess of fertility and childbirth, said to be secreted in the heart of the Temple of the Warriors."
----

According to "Lost Journal", when Indy left for Peru, he assumed that Forrestal was still alive. (It'd be interesting to compare this with the info form West End Games "Sourcebook". Hi, Matt.:p)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Stoo said:
According to "Lost Journal", when Indy left for Peru, he assumed that Forrestal was still alive. (It'd be interesting to compare this with the info form West End Games "Sourcebook". Hi, Matt.:p)

Stoo! :hat:

I've quoted the following from the 1994 Lucasfilm authorised, 'Raiders of the Lost Ark Sourcebook', published by West End Games.

This is from Indy's diary and notes:

"Forrestal and I had been competitors since my early days in archaeology. We both went to different universities, we each had out own specialities and we each had different patrons. It wasn't like we were at each other's throats all the time - it's just that he always seemed to mark the better finds, bring back more intriguing artifacts and simply find leads to archaeological sites I never heard about.

Seems he had the same impressions of my work as well.

In fact, Forrestal must have had a virtual intelligence network throughout the world. Most of us archaeologists do. We have our museums and collectors to follow up tips, our colleagues (and competitors) who help us track down finds (or do the work for us), and the seedier underworld figures who seem to know everything ... for the right price. We follow developments in the archaeological journals, watch the newspapers for news of interesting finds, and work off of our own hunches, the history books and whatever the competition is dabbling in.

Which means archaeology can be as dangerous a business as smuggling and espionage.

Forrestal spent a lot more time in Central and South America than I had.He participated in digs at Aztec and Mayan sites, and was fluent in more Indian dialects than I knew existed. I'm sure he had contacts from Lima to Mexico City feeding him information, clues and maps to excavation site all along. So when he disappeared a little over a year ago, I was surprised. I knew he had been working to find an acient temple rumored to have a solid gold statue of the Chachapoyan fertility goddess, and had retrieved a treasure trove of artifacts said to have come from sites near the secret temple. Marcus Brody at the archaeological museum in New York City told me the news of Forrestal's earlier finds, and notified me when he unexpectedly disappeared.

Now all along I had been trying to get a lead on the location of this hidden temple somewhere in the mountain jungles of Peru - at Marcus' request, of course. The idol itself would be the perfect centrepiece for the museums Pre-Columbian collection. But it would take a lot of work before I ever set foot in the South American jungle.

First I contacted Princeton, where Forrestal had been teaching ancient history and archaeology. The history department was keeping his office under lock and key, but after a few months, when it was apparent Forrestal wasn't coming back, they sifted through all the junk and depositied all his papers in the library's archives. A quick trip down to New Jersey and a few hours rummaging through Forrestal's notes in the library revealed a few notes on the ancient Chachapoyan warriors and their fertility goddess cult, as well as the names of two people and a town: Barranca and Satipo in Machete Landing. He also had reference to a volume in the University of Chicago library by a 19th Century American named McHenry who spent most of his life exploring the South American jungles - apparently Forrestal found some sort of map in there. It looked like I was going to Chicago."

...

At the University of Chicago I evaded suspicious librarians and jumped back into the stacks to find the musty old volume on McHenry that Forrestal had consulted. Forrestal had been clumsy, and had dogeared important pages and pencilled notes in the margins. There was one section detailing ancient pictographs from an ancient ruin in the Peruvian jungle highlands which spoke of the Chachapoyan temple. The text also indicated that the floorplan of the temple was described in detail in the pictographs. But Forrestal's notes indicated that the ruin was destroyed in an earthquake several years ago. Apparently the volume originally came with a map insert drawn by the old explorer himself, but the map was missing.

...Jock had learned the general location of the lake where Forrestal landed on an earlier expedition..."

In the same Sourcebook there is an excerpt from Belloq's diary and notes:

"...It was not difficult for me to find the temple of the Chachapoyan Warriors. Doctor Jones led me and my Hovitos ... friends directly to it.

Like Jones, I, too, had been interested in locating the Chachapoyan temple, but my previous efforts years ago had turned up nothing. So I had become very intrigued by Forrestal's apparent excavations near the temple, and by his subsequent disappearance. I had contacted Satipo and Barrance while Forrestal was still alive, and paid them enough to pilfer the map from one of his campsites. But Barranca said the map was incomplete and useless to gain further treasure, so he refused to turn it over to me. Most unfortunate for him.

However, from their foray after Forrestal, I determined the general vicinity in which he was seeking the lost Chachapoyan temple. I knew it was somewhere in a fairly large mountain jungle valley in the Peruvian highlands. Although I didn't have the map to the temple, I knew the general area in which to look. But I needed someone to pinpoint the temple for me, and then brave the deadly traps within to retrieve the sacred and solid gold idol of the Chachapoyan fertility goddess.

When Forrestal disappeared, one of my contacts in the United States informed me of Doctor Jones' interest in retrieving the idol. Through some persuasion and a small bribe, I was able to help foster Jones' research and interest in finding the temple. His first complication was in part my own fabrication. Forrestal's papers were under lock and key at Princeton University. I convinced my contact there that they should be accessible to the academic community - and Jones took the bait, returning to Princeton as soon as Forrestal's notes were made available.

I then dropped a rather innocuous hint to Barranca and Satipo (anonymously, of course) that an American named Doctor Jones was seeking to continue Forrestal's work where he had left off - including the retrieval of the golden fertility goddess."

There may be other references to Forrestal in the book, so I'll check later.

Matt
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Thanks for posting all that, Matt!:hat: One day, I want to do a photo reconstruction of his face using a screengrab of the half that's not decayed.:dead:
emtiem said:
He gets a mention in the Indiana Jones Adventures vol.1 too.
Yes but unfortunately there's not much extra information about him. I like the fact that Forrestal is giving a mention in the story, though!(y)
 

Indy's brother

New member
An interesting feature of his name is that it's most likely a play on the word "forestall"

forestall |fôrˈstôl|
verb [ trans. ]
prevent or obstruct (an anticipated event or action) by taking action ahead of time : vitamins may forestall many diseases of aging.
? act in advance of (someone) in order to prevent them from doing something : she started to rise, but Erica forestalled her and got the telephone.
? historical buy up (goods) in order to profit by an enhanced price.
DERIVATIVES
forestaller noun
forestalment noun
ORIGIN Old English foresteall [an ambush] (see fore- and stall ). As a verb the earliest sense ( Middle English ) was [intercept and buy up (goods) before they reach the market, so as to raise the price] (formerly an offense).

I can't believe this never occurred to me before, and it's not much of a leap to believe that the meaning of the word had some bearing on Indy's "competitor". In this light, it could be further argued that this was a slick alliteration of sorts to Belloq's character by Kasdan, foreshadowing Indy's nemesis as it were.

Of course, I have nothing to prove this other than my gut reaction to the definition of the word. ;)
 
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