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Old 07-13-2018, 01:52 PM   #426
Z dweller
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Which media outlets are you referring to?
Practically everyone who reported it online.
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Granted, we're inevitably going to disagree on this, but some of the marketing appeal comes from this being Ford's last adventure (and perhaps the last Indy flick if they keep this schedule). Besides, the guy does have marketing appeal across generations, and he's still a bankable star with a relatively powerful fanbase.
Even if that were true, Indy 5 with both Spielberg and Ford on board ain't gonna be cheap to make. The more Disney have to spend for marketing on top of that, the more difficult it becomes to turn a big profit.
KOTCS already used up a big chunk of goodwill, even amongst older fans.
This time it's different, and much, much harder.
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Hey, don't judge! . Talk to the guys at Dark Horse if you don't like my avatar. They're the one's who (presumably) drew it, though it could be from Marvel.
Easy, tiger.
It wasn't aimed at you, plus "de gustibus non disputandum est".
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:04 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
Even if that were true, Indy 5 with both Spielberg and Ford on board ain't gonna be cheap to make. The more Disney have to spend for marketing on top of that, the more difficult it becomes to turn a big profit.
KOTCS already used up a big chunk of goodwill, even amongst older fans.
If this is going to be a typical Indy flick, then yes, it's going to cost at least 100 million plus to make it, especially considering that both Ford and Spielberg charge high fees for their talents (I mean, look at Steven, the guy's a billionaire). Marketing, of course, will also be costly, considering the amount of money that studios put into promotion today, with even "small" films placing dozens of ads over social media, TV, and other mediums. But on the other hand, Indy belongs to the Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm juggernaut, which bar Solo, has been pumping out 1 billion plus box office hauls per film. Sure, KotCS might've taken away goodwill, but people are still interested in seeing another film with Indy, and casual audiences and hardcore fans are willing to pay up come July 2021.
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Easy, tiger.
It wasn't aimed at you, plus "de gustibus non disputandum est".
I know, I know . Just having a bit of fun, and yes, de gustibus non disputandum est, as the Romans would say.
In fact, that saying might sum up all of our arguments over Indy 5.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:26 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
If this is going to be a typical Indy flick, then yes, it's going to cost at least 100 million plus to make it
KOTCS cost nearly $200 mil, and that was over ten years ago.
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Indy belongs to the Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm juggernaut, which bar Solo, has been pumping out 1 billion plus box office hauls per film.
Look at the SW trend. The trend is your friend.
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Sure, KotCS might've taken away goodwill, but people are still interested in seeing another film with Indy, and casual audiences and hardcore fans are willing to pay up come July 2021.
Oh yeah?

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Old 07-13-2018, 02:33 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
KOTCS cost nearly $200 mil, and that was over ten years ago.

They say the production budget ended up at $185 million. It should be noted though that Spielberg went overbudget on CRYSTAL SKULL - a rarity for him - and paid a premium to shoot the movie entirely in the U.S. when George could have gotten better deals on overseas soundstages.

It wouldn't surprise me if Spielberg tightens his belt on this one. Goodness knows all that extra money didn't elevate the quality of the last movie any.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:35 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
KOTCS cost nearly $200 mil, and that was over ten years ago.

Look at the SW trend. The trend is your friend.
SW has also been overpopulated with a series of random and poorly timed films over the past few years. Indy hasn't. As I said before, there's no doubt that the film will cost a lot--probably even more than KotCS--but there's no doubt that it could make money, given the right promotional strategies combined with good reviews.
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Oh yeah?

I sure do. Why don't you just...

Now THAT'S a dead franchise if I ever saw one.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:44 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
SW has also been overpopulated with a series of random and poorly timed films over the past few years. Indy hasn't. As I said before, there's no doubt that the film will cost a lot--probably even more than KotCS--but there's no doubt that it could make money, given the right promotional strategies combined with good reviews.
The SW fan base is vastly bigger though.
And there was virtually no hiatus in the production of toys/books/games etc. to keep the interest alive.

Marketing costs money, and they'll need to spend a hell of a lot of it to generate interest in Indy 5, if the only draw is Ford.

UNLESS, they bring in a young co-star playing Indy in flashback scenes.
Then there's a chance it could really be big, and pave the way for future prequels.
Remember...

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Old 07-13-2018, 03:07 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
The SW fan base is vastly bigger though.
And there was virtually no hiatus in the production of toys/books/games etc. to keep the interest alive.

Marketing costs money, and they'll need to spend a hell of a lot of it to generate interest in Indy 5, if the only draw is Ford.

Like I said before, they're going to have to market it extensively--that's definitely true, especially since we haven't seen an Indy flick in a decade. But Ford and Spielberg's films usually net a profit, and the release date (mid-summer) is good for adventure films/action movies of Indy's caliber.

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Originally Posted by Z dweller
UNLESS, they bring in a young co-star playing Indy in flashback scenes.
Then there's a chance it could really be big, and pave the way for future prequels.
Is there a chance? Definitely.
But let's look at the trends (because the trends are our friends, remember?).
Last time there was a recast at Disney for a beloved character portrayed by HF, it didn't do so well. In fact, it didn't do well at all. Depending on who they pick for the role, it could hurt the film rather than help it.
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Remember...

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Old 07-13-2018, 03:21 PM   #433
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:27 PM   #434
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Hey, maybe this'll be how they get rid of Mutt and Marion
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:49 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Ford ... used to net a profit
Amended for you.
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Last time there was a recast at Disney for a beloved character portrayed by HF, it didn't do so well. In fact, it didn't do well at all.
What we are discussing here is Ford and a younger actor co-starring, taking turns at wearing the fedora in the past and "present".
Very different concept.
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Depending on who they pick for the role, it could hurt the film rather than help it.
I would argue that the one who's taking on the biggest risk here is Ford himself.
He certainly does not want go out with a whimper, or a dive (hat tip to Horsie ).
The knives are drawn, and there'll be no shortage of flak if the movie is subpar and/or doesn't make money.

I would not be surprised if it turned our that it was Ford who caused the delay by rejecting Koepp's script.
He needs a great story, and he knows it.

He's also a shrewd businessman who'd rather get a fatter profit-sharing check by swallowing his pride and accepting that these days he's not the mega-star he used to be, if he thought a well chosen young co-star might help the movie make more $$$
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:41 PM   #436
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He's also a shrewd businessman who'd rather get a fatter profit-sharing check by swallowing his pride and accepting that these days he's not the mega-star he used to be, if he thought a well chosen young co-star might help the movie make more $$$
You're certainly entitled to think this is the case but it's no more than your opinion on the matter, no matter how much you state is as fact. Is it really so hard to type "I think" before a sentence?

My take is he's extremely rich at this point and probably doesn't need more money.
When you've got hundreds upon hundreds or even maybe half a billion or more in the bank, money probably isn't as big of a draw as it used to.
He's even said that Indy 5 is not about the cash and he's doing it because he enjoys making Indy movies and working with Spielberg so much.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:20 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by Silvor
You're certainly entitled to think this is the case but it's no more than your opinion on the matter, no matter how much you state is as fact. Is it really so hard to type "I think" before a sentence?

My take is he's extremely rich at this point and probably doesn't need more money.
When you've got hundreds upon hundreds or even maybe half a billion or more in the bank, money probably isn't as big of a draw as it used to.
He's even said that Indy 5 is not about the cash and he's doing it because he enjoys making Indy movies and working with Spielberg so much.
For some reason, you chose to focus on the second part of my statement, and ignore the first. Let's try again.
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I would argue that the one who's taking on the biggest risk here is Ford himself.
He certainly does not want go out with a whimper, or a dive (hat tip to Horsie ).
The knives are drawn, and there'll be no shortage of flak if the movie is subpar and/or doesn't make money.

I would not be surprised if it turned our that it was Ford who caused the delay by rejecting Koepp's script.
He needs a great story, and he knows it.
In other words, I know that there's a lot at stake here for Ford: the whole Indy legacy and future - not just the money.

Is it really so hard to read a whole post, before replying?
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:44 PM   #438
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Amended for you.

What we are discussing here is Ford and a younger actor co-starring, taking turns at wearing the fedora in the past and "present".
Very different concept.
Call a spade a spade, my friend. We all know that this is Ford's last Indy movie (for better or worse), and the success of a film with alternating storylines (one with Ford and the other with a new actor) will depend on how good the new actor is. If he isn't good, the movie will tank.

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Originally Posted by Z dweller
I would not be surprised if it turned our that it was Ford who caused the delay by rejecting Koepp's script.
He needs a great story, and he knows it.

He's also a shrewd businessman who'd rather get a fatter profit-sharing check by swallowing his pride and accepting that these days he's not the mega-star he used to be, if he thought a well chosen young co-star might help the movie make more $$$
Granted, Ford might view this as his own The Shootist (in terms of a final ride), and he definitely would need an iconic script to top Blade Runner 2049 (which we can both agree was a fantastic film), but that doesn't mean he hasn't made his own films of...decidedly lesser quality before..

Here's what we need to remember at the end of the day, though. No matter what, the two of us are probably going to hold drastically different views on Indy 5, and are probably going to slip back to the same arguments ad infinitum till July 10th, 2021. And there's really no point to that.

And hey, I'll give you this--a lot of your ideas would work perfectly in Indy 5. Especially alternating storylines. But some wouldn't, in my opinion, and that's probably how it's going to be.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:08 PM   #439
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Call a spade a spade, my friend. We all know that this is Ford's last Indy movie (for better or worse), and the success of a film with alternating storylines (one with Ford and the other with a new actor) will depend on how good the new actor is. If he isn't good, the movie will tank.
There's plenty of good actors out there. Where's the problem?
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
And hey, I'll give you this--a lot of your ideas would work perfectly in Indy 5. Especially alternating storylines. But some wouldn't, in my opinion, and that's probably how it's going to be.
Fair enough.
Just of curiosity, which other ideas that I put forward for Indy 5 do you not like?
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:31 PM   #440
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There's plenty of good actors out there. Where's the problem?
A good actor doesn't equal a good performance, or a good box office run for that matter. I think Alden Ehrenreich is a fantastic performer (and a fantastic Han), but the movie still didn't do well.
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Fair enough.
Just of curiosity, which other ideas that I put forward for Indy 5 do you not like?
My view is that Indy 5--if they go the route of alternating storylines--should focus more on Ford, with the new actor receiving a fair amount, though slightly less than Ford's, of screentime. From your posts, it seems that you think the opposite (spend most of the time on new guy, with 40 minutes of Ford).
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:40 PM   #441
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A good actor doesn't equal a good performance, or a good box office run for that matter.
I agree with you, but now you are contradicting yourself.
In the previous post you said "the success of a film with alternating storylines will depend on how good the new actor is. If he isn't good, the movie will tank."

All I'm saying is: without a young actor, it's going to be incredibly hard to engage younger audiences.
Should Disney go for an established star, or a new name?
That's a different discussion though, not the one you and I have had so far.

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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
My view is that Indy 5--if they go the route of alternating storylines--should focus more on Ford, with the new actor receiving a fair amount, though slightly less than Ford's, of screentime. From your posts, it seems that you think the opposite (spend most of the time on new guy, with 40 minutes of Ford).
I'd be happy with 50/50 screen time.
What the heck, even 60% Ford, 40% new actor.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:49 PM   #442
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And I'm only happy if Z dweller is happy.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:02 PM   #443
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I agree with you, but now you are contradicting yourself.
In the previous post you said "the success of a film with alternating storylines will depend on how good the new actor is. If he isn't good, the movie will tank."

All I'm saying is: without a young actor, it's going to be incredibly hard to engage younger audiences.
Should Disney go for an established star, or a new name?
That's a different discussion though, not the one you and I have had so far.
Without getting into another muddled debate, let me clarify my sentiment in the post prior. Good, from my point of view, simply is the extent to how well (or not) the actor portrays the character. I'm not asking for a Ford impersonation, I want something unique. My point about Ehrenreich was to note that even though I thought he put on an excellent performance, that wasn't enough to save the movie. Put in an actor with a mediocre performance, and, well, that could make the situation even more dire.
As to your second point, I can see where you're coming from. I belong to the "digital generation", and with action movies in particular it's cool to see some fresh faces (for example, Tom Holland's performance as Spider-Man has attracted a whole new wave of fans to the Marvel Universe), but that doesn't mean someone like Harrison can't engage with people like that. A lot of "new viewers" (i.e. people who never saw the originals in theaters, so on and so forth) still like Harrison, and still enjoy seeing him onscreen. I know this from a lot of personal interactions I had with others around the time of TFA's release.
As for whether Disney should go for an established star or someone unknown, I'd say be safe. Guys like Gosling or Pratt are generally well known (hell, more so than Alden or Ingruber) and can help net the profits that this franchise wants (and NEEDS) to survive.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:06 PM   #444
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And I'm only happy if Z dweller is happy.
I'm fully aware that my personal preferences count for zilch in the great scheme of things, thank you. The same goes for everyone else.

I was just clarifying my position.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:14 PM   #445
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I'm fully aware that my personal preferences count for zilch in the great scheme of things, thank you. The same goes for everyone else.

I was just clarifying my position.

Aw, come on, tiger! I don't think he meant anything by it.
If it makes you feel any better though, your preferences do matter, because you're going to be the one deciding whether you fork over your money to the Disney machine on July 10th, 2021--and no one else.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:19 PM   #446
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Put in an actor with a mediocre performance, and, well, that could make the situation even more dire.
Sure, but it's a risk that has to be taken, IMO.

Spielberg's casting choices in his prime were fantastic: Ke Quan, Phoenix and Connery were perfect for their roles, and each added his own touch, just like you said.

Did the 'Berg drop the ball with LaBeuf? As far as I'm concerned, yes - let's hope he chooses wisely again this time.
'Cause even if Indy 5 doesn't features parallel stories, Old Indy will definitely get a young sideckick or two, you can bet the house.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:28 PM   #447
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Did the 'Berg drop the ball with LaBeuf? As far as I'm concerned, yes - let's hope he chooses wisely again this time.
As far as I'm concerned...NO. Just look at the well of talent for teen/early twenties actors at that time. About as empty as it is now. Say what you want about KotCS, but Shia and Harrison definitely had great chemistry up until the part where somebody decided "hey, why don't we just cram a lot of uninteresting characters into the last half of the movie.
And this is from someone who likes Kingdom.
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'Cause even if Indy 5 doesn't features parallel stories, Old Indy will definitely get a young sidekick or two, you can bet the house.

The house doesn't always win. A good enough gambler can send it tumbling down. I don't want to see Harrison marching along with some of his tween grandchildren for two and a half hours.
But hey, like I mentioned before, maybe Idris Elba could work. He's a fantastic actor, and I could see him operating as a roguish ally in the Indyverse. Now that would be interesting.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:38 PM   #448
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Is there any chance Harrison and the new actor get 50/50 screentime, or should I resign myself to Harrison being only given around 10-35 mins?
If an Indy film is roughly 2 hours, is it too much to expect one hour of Harrison and one hour of the new guy?
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:45 PM   #449
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I don't want to see Harrison marching along with some of his tween grandchildren for two and a half hours.
I certainly didn't mean that young.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:49 PM   #450
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I certainly didn't mean that young.
Indiana Jones in Spy Kids 6: The Musical!
I'm going to be sick.
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