Ark of the Covenant

Venture

New member
Re: Cain re: Rev. 11:19

apalehorse said:

I believe in the 77 feet theroy.

By that, I assume you mean the theory that places the Ark in the Chamber of Solomon, below the Temple Mount. That's the theory I'm starting to gravitate toward myself.

As to the cross, what's done cannot be undone. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by Me." Just because the Jews reestablish the sacrifices and temple worship doesn't mean it has godly pertinence. I'm done preaching now.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
True, but doesn't the passage deal with the reestablishment of the process of atonement through sacrifice? (there can be none at the cross after the second coming.) Therefore the ark, as interpreted, becomes the mediator during the 1000 years. It is, for lack of a better term, the radio for talking to God.
 

Venture

New member
No, during the millenium God, as Lord Jesus, will be with man on Earth. At the end of the thousand-year reign there's one more row with Satan, who is then cast into the lake of fire for all eternity. After that, the Father Himself comes to Earth to live with us forever.

As to the sacrifices, the tribulation period is the last seven years of the Jewish nation spoken of by Daniel (Dan. 9:24-27). By then, the time of the Gentiles is complete, and that "week" (lit. in Hebrew a "seven" or seven-year period) is the time when 144,000 Jewish witnesses will go about converting the Jews to Christianity. The whole while, the Jewish nation will have rebuilt the Temple and reinstituted their religious practices (i.e. the Ark-oriented sacrifices). Just because they do it doesn't make it an acceptable atonement. Paul went around chastising them for adhering to those practices his whole ministry.

I hope this answered some of your questions...if not, just consider it Venture pontificating again.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
What, then, is your understanding of how the Ark is to be used during that time, if you don't mind me asking?
 

Venture

New member
If you mean in the time of the Tribulation, it will be used for the Temple sacrifices. And it's on the mercy seat of the Ark that the Antichrist will seat himself, claiming that he is God. With the Presence of God in His people now, and not in the Ark, this is possible without killing a man. If you mean in the Millenial Reign, I don't know what use, if any, it will serve.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Venture
Indyfan


If you mean in the time of the Tribulation, it will be used for the Temple sacrifices. And it's on the mercy seat of the Ark that the Antichrist will seat himself, claiming that he is God.

Given some of our recent e-mails concerning the Antichrist, this is quite interesting. BTW, do have the reference handy for the above, (or are you going to make me do my homework) ;)
 

Venture

New member
Your servant, sir.

II Thessalonians 2:3,4-"Let no man decieve you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God showing himself that he is God."

You could also read Revelation 13:1-18, as this refers to the brief period when the Antichrist tries to portray himself as God. "...he as God sitteth in the temple og God..." is what leads me to believe he'll occupy the mercy seat, as this is where the Presence of God manifested in the temple. I also believe that this incident is the "abomination of desolation" spoken of by Daniel and mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24.

And to what e-mails are you referring, my dear Thanatos?
 

Venture

New member
Was that passage of Scripture helpful? I only recently began to believe that the Ark was still on Earth, and that caused the realization that it was a necessary part of Judaic ritual pertaining to the temple. Of course, they got along without in the time of Jesus...one of the reasons I believe the veil in the temple split was to reveal to the Jews that God no longer abode in a "house made by hands."
 

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
"At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom." (Matthew 27:51)
"That moment" is the time of the death of Jesus. When he died the curtain, dividing the Holy of Holies from the rest of the Temple, tore thus signifying that all of mankind could talk to God without need of a gold box.
 

Venture

New member
Here, here!!! The Ark would be little more than a novelty item...unless you count it's archaeological signficance, in which case it's priceless. "Vanity of vanities" in the long run, if you ask The Preacher. Still, I'd like to be the one to find it...
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Then why have it return? If it is not something that provides a connection with God, why would it return. It seems that would provide a area for misdirection...
 

Venture

New member
God prophesied the return of the Ark, He did not commend it. Since the Lord's resurrection, He has never intended any other means of communication with His people. He prophesied the coming Antichrist, but He isn't the One to make it happen. That's the trick in Biblical interpretation, figuring out what God caused, causes, or will cause, and what He is warning us will come. The key is realizing that God is a good God who doesn't inflict pain, that His wrath was intended for Satan and that Satan tricked man into getting between him and God's wrath. As well, God doesn't change His mind concerning the Way to Him. Not to sound narrow-minded, but that Way, according to the Bible, is Jesus, end of story.
 

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
Remember that the Judaic belief is that Jesus was not the Messiah, so the Ark and their rules of living still apply. Whereas, Christians belive that Jesus was the Messiah, and the old ways are, just that, old and no longer apply. To a Christian and to non-Jews, the Ark is a great archaeological artifact, but nothing more then that. To a Jew it is vital to the core of their belief system.
 

Venture

New member
Actually, the "old ways" aren't considered obsolete. In fact, they established the system that Christianity stands on. It's interesting to note that you can't really claim an in-depth knowledge of Christianity without at least a working knowledge of Judaism. The parallels are fascinating. God keeps His "types and shadows." There's a school of thought called the "Solomon Principle" that would make for good conversation, if I can figure out a way to apply it to topic.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Perhaps in here, provided each member reamins focused on the premise that all archeology pertains to history, and history (esp. Judeo-Christian in this instance) has commonly known tenants within religion.

Or we could dump the Solomon Principle into Film Classics under "Raider Alike Films"

IMHO, this thread is propogated by about 5 members, and the rest are curious to knowledge (neither good, bad, argumentative, or disrespectful)

Hopefully your we can continue under adhearence to rules 1,2,3,5,and 9.

Does the Solomon Principle have anything to do with the Ark or not?
 

Venture

New member
Yes. It basically states that, according to King Solomon in the book of Ecclesiastes, "there is nothing new under the sun." It sets forth a premise that God "declaring the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10) was a statement concerning cycles, given to understand the "mysteries" of the Bible. I don't know if this one is included in the Solomon Principle, but here goes:

In brief, the temple consisted of the Outer Court, the Inner Court, and the Holy of Holies, where the Ark was contained. Man, like God, is a triune being, consisting of spirit, soul, and body (I Thessalonians 5:23). The born-again believer is now the temple of God according to I Corinthians 6:19. Ergo, the same delineation applies to this new "temple".

Outer Court...body
Inner Court...soul (psuche in Greek, representing the psychological make-up of mind, will, and emotions.)
Holy of Holies...spirit (pneuma in Greek, meaning literally "breath", or life, the real you and me is spirit, just as God is spirit)

Now, in the Mosaic temple, the Ark was placed in the Holy of Holies, corresponding to the believer's spirit. Therefore, the Ark, representing the Manifest Presence of Yahweh, is a typology of the Holy Ghost united with the believer's spirit in the "new birth."

Follow?
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
Yes. I have the trinity concept of salvation down for both the Old and New Testament periods.

But (and this refers to your earlier post concering Rev 11:19.), if the Ark is in Heaven, and it will again be revealed on earth, how can it not be seen as a mediator in the 1000 year period.

Venture said:
God prophesied the return of the Ark, He did not commend it. Since the Lord's resurrection, He has never intended any other means of communication with His people. He prophesied the coming Antichrist, but He isn't the One to make it happen. That's the trick in Biblical interpretation, figuring out what God caused, causes, or will cause, and what He is warning us will come. The key is realizing that God is a good God who doesn't inflict pain, that His wrath was intended for Satan and that Satan tricked man into getting between him and God's wrath. As well, God doesn't change His mind concerning the Way to Him. Not to sound narrow-minded, but that Way, according to the Bible, is Jesus, end of story.

Why would he allow something, that no longer testifies to his grace and mercy into heaven? It must have a significant part in history to be mentioned again. It's not like Noah's ark will ever play a part in the salvation of souls. The only purpose it's revelation would produce would be testamentary proof of the accuracy of the Word of God.
 

Venture

New member
I need to clarify: I've recently changed my position, and believe the "in heaven" in Rev 11:19 refers to God, not the temple. I believe the Ark is here on Earth. Not only that, but I believe it's within Israeli possession. If you read Young's Literal Translation, it pairs the "in heaven" part with God, not the temple. I'm cuurently learning koine Greek, and only then be able to settle this to my own satisfaction, but until then, for the record, the Ark is in Israel, ready and waiting to be placed in the temple.
 
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