Favorite parts of the Darabont script

ronicle said:

I'm curious to hear your opinions are on the rest of the script too(when you're finished reading it) I guess I'm not sure whether I like the bar scene either, that is one of the things about about the Darabont script that needs tweaking, Marion is just a tad bit too aggressive at times, and I'm thinking Marion being the one who left Indy is a little out of character for her, I just can't see her doing that lol

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I haven't opened the file in awhile, so my memory is somewhat suspect, but my initial feeling was it felt too Casablanca, (overly) and I wasn't able to "see" Indy and Marion exchange the dialogue as written. Funny thing, I would probably feel the same way about Skull if I had read it first! ...and in reality I do feel that way, I have the utmost faith in Karen Allen as an actress who takes her craft seriously, but it seemed to me in filming Skull quick and dirty (Speilberg was pissed at the sand pit scene/gave up and decided to use the best take) they compromised on performances, instead of set pieces.

ronicle said:

Don't get me wrong the Darabont script wasn't perfect, and nothing is gonna ever make me like aliens in an Indy movie, but overall, I thought the Darabont script was a lot more fun, the character development was much better, and the actions scenes excellent

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The aliens are tough to deal with, but I still think it's possible to do, it just needed more development.

One of my favorite lines in Raiders is Belloq's response to Dietrich's unease with the Jewish ritual.

It's obviously his way of manipulating the situation and exerting his influence/power, but just the same, it also puts this doubt about the ark in your mind. Could it be a fake? Could it have been a duplicate to protect the "one true ark", how much of the mythology did you know about the ark, (the bible, Shishak,customs other cultures...etc) going into the film? Could they have tried to build their own ark? A copy? A homage?

I love the way they cast doubt near the end of the picture...it's easy in hind sight to pick through the movie and create arguments that say..."of course that's the real ark" so forth and so on, but for people who looked on the movie as a mystery as well,we're looking for clues to solve the puzzle and make sense of the film and it's direction...Belloq's comment opened up other possibilities!

That's how I felt the Alien angle could have been dealt with, Indy asked at one point what is this, but they felt compelled to answer the question for you instead of playing it out.

Any way you slice it, I think the alien angle could have been done well if they had left a greater element of mystery and doubt surrounding it instead on spoonfeeding exposition to us.

Rocket Surgeon said:

I haven't opened the file in awhile, so my memory is somewhat suspect, but my initial feeling was it felt too Casablanca, (overly)

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I actually like the Casablanca feel. "Raiders" had a vague Casablanca quality to it, as well. Yeah, here, with the love triangle, it's a little more overt, but, hey, if you're going to borrow, borrow from the best.

I wasn't able to "see" Indy and Marion exchange the dialogue as written. Funny thing, I would probably feel the same way about Skull if I had read it first! ...and in reality I do feel that way, I have the utmost faith in Karen Allen as an actress who takes her craft seriously, but it seemed to me in filming Skull quick and dirty (Speilberg was pissed at the sand pit scene/gave up and decided to use the best take) they compromised on performances, instead of set pieces.

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I disagree, the dialogue really worked for me (for the most part), especially with Marion. Indy's voice is hard to capture, but Harrison Ford almost always manages to make it work, even lines you wouldn't think would. In "Crystal Skull", though, he had some real clankers to struggle with and, for the first time, much of Indy's dialogue felt VERY out of character to me.

Didn't know that about the sand pit scene, that sounds lazy on Spielberg's part. Too bad.

The aliens are tough to deal with, but I still think it's possible to do, it just needed more development.

One of my favorite lines in Raiders is Belloq's response to Dietrich's unease with the Jewish ritual.

It's obviously his way of manipulating the situation and exerting his influence/power, but just the same, it also puts this doubt about the ark in your mind...

I love the way they cast doubt near the end of the picture...Belloq's comment opened up other possibilities!

That's how I felt the Alien angle could have been dealt with, Indy asked at one point what is this, but they felt compelled to answer the question for you instead of playing it out.

Any way you slice it, I think the alien angle could have been done well if they had left a greater element of mystery and doubt surrounding it instead on spoonfeeding exposition to us.

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Yeah, that's a very interesting approach. Agree about the "spoon-feeding" of exposition. More skepticism and mystery would have been better.

Though I am personally averse to the idea of aliens in the Indiana Jones universe, to quote Roger Ebert, a movie is less "what" it is about then "how" it is about it.

Done well, I would have forgiven the movie a great deal, even the presence of aliens. Done badly, it becomes all the more egregious - see my earlier comments about the "Chariot of the Gods" aspect to the film, which was just loathsome.

ronicle said:

Oh yea, I knew you didn't mean to say you liked the ending better, and I still agree with everything you say! I too thought the ghost Hitler thing was retarded, but like you say the way the kotcs alien thing was executed sucked as well... and also agree with you about Mac, his character was as annoying as hearing Willie scream.. and also like you said I too didn't like the alien visions thing, but what I did like was the "welcome to earth" and then Indy gunning the alien down.. but I know everyone would have just complained that it was a Sigourney Weaver*Aliens* ripoff... I still and always will say that aliens don't belong in an Indy film.. it really topped off the "cringe moment" when they showed the space ship! So maybe aliens do exist.. that doesn't mean they can belong in any movie..

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Wasn't "Welcome to Earth" from Independence Day? Man, the "City of the Gods" ending doesn't work on so many levels, but I though the way Los Dioses was visualized was very cool. There was a palpable sense of mystery and danger as they were approaching the city which I didn't feel at all in KOTCS.

on a side note, I always thought Spalko was sort of a weak villain, she wasn't scary, Spalko fits into the Belloq/Donoven role, but kotcs is missing a Toht type character.. I don't mean disgusting like Mola Ram, just someone you know the other characters could actually be afraid of, like the way Marion was afraid of Toht

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I agree that Spalko was a weak villain. The entire movie had the edges rubbed off it, it was very safe and bland without any real sense of danger or stakes. Indy's fight with Dovchevnko was the only time I even briefly felt a sense of suspense. I always thought "Last Crusade" was too soft and comical with its action sequences, but KOTCS is so much worse.

However, I do like the IDEA of a sexy, slinky ruthless KGB agent who is an expert on the paranormal. Unfortunately, Spalko wasn't intimidating, she wasn't interesting and Cate Blanchett (who I absolutely love) wasn't great in the role.

In terms of a Toht like character, I think "City of the Gods"' "Thin Man" assassin character definitely fit the bill.

I also liked the inclusion of President Escalante. I love it when you can have not just two but three different factions with their own agendas in the mix. In Crusade, we had the Brotherhood, who were cool but only very briefly in the story.

I liked how "City of the Gods" had lots of supporting characters with various agendas and allegiances, though I do think that Belasko's expedition could have been a little smaller - it was a bit too crowded at times.

In any event, I definitely want to re-read the whole script again!!

I'm with Darth Vile in liking the Hitchcockian "Indy on the run"/"wrong man" sort of scenario. And I personally loved the idea of finding the MacGuffin in a bowling bag. It's so perfect for the era and such a different way of handling it. If there's a fifth...hopefully this idea might make its way in in some fashion.

I liked some of the band of villains (especially the tinpot dictator, which is such an obvious villain type for this sort of story and yet one we haven't seen in the films before). Although Yuri is not nearly as good as Mac - way too Yakov Smirnoff-ey.

And really, nothing keeps me coming back to KotCS as Ray Winstone's performance.

Edit to say: "Welcome to Earth" is terrible on so many levels. It's a rip-off of <I>Independence Day</I>, for one, but it also has Indy active in the finale to a degree that he just should not be. Temple of Doom goes as far is it should, and even there I personally regret the lack of a more supernatural death scene for Mola Ram.

One of the problems I see in Darabont's script is the interaction with Marion. Each new movie show us a new kind of character that interacts with Indy.

Raiders - Marion
Temple - Shorty / Willie
Crusade - Henry Jones Sr.

In City Of Gods we have Marion again, so I find more interesting to introduce a new character like Mutt and see how Indy reacts in a different way.

The opening of Darabont is very well written but it seems too long and like a novel. I prefer the concision of KOTCS that works as an exciting set piece like the teasers in James Bond movies.

Remember that first drafts are like Darabont's script, with a lot of material that need to be cut and syntethized in subsequent versions for budget/time reasons.

Lance Quazar said:

I actually like the Casablanca feel. "Raiders" had a vague Casablanca quality to it, as well.

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I liked the was Raiders dealt with it...as you mention down the line, it's more a matter of how.

Lance Quazar said:

Done badly, it becomes all the more egregious - see my earlier comments about the "Chariot of the Gods" aspect to the film, which was just loathsome.

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I did read that,and agree. The "translations" were over simplistic, anyone in the audience could have figured it out, (andnot in a clever way)...was like going back to third grade history class.

But attributing such simplistic advancements to an advanced race was silly. Maybe if they took the time to explain some of the mechanical marvels that were thrown in at the end it might have been compelling, but that would have meant development time and effort.

Rocket Surgeon said:

But attributing such simplistic advancements to an advanced race was silly. Maybe if they took the time to explain some of the mechanical marvels that were thrown in at the end it might have been compelling, but that would have meant development time and effort.

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No, no, no!

The suggestion AT ALL that early man needed "help" from aliens is on its face incredibly insulting and demeaning. Doesn't really matter what they're shown to do.

Humans are smart SOBs. No one needed to "show us" how to invent farming, architecture, art, etc. etc.

The movie was unforgivable in that respect, that element needed to be entirely stricken, not given more explanation.

Lance Quazar said:

No, no, no!

The suggestion AT ALL that early man needed "help" from aliens is on its face incredibly insulting and demeaning. Doesn't really matter what they're shown to do.

Humans are smart SOBs. No one needed to "show us" how to invent farming, architecture, art, etc. etc.

The movie was unforgivable in that respect, that element needed to be entirely stricken, not given more explanation.

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Some of the gargantuan gears and slabs of rocks moving rotating and retracting would have been the place to start. Hell we modeled them on computers in 2007. I'mnot talking about farming and irrigation.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Some of the gargantuan gears and slabs of rocks moving rotating and retracting would have been the place to start. Hell we modeled them on computers in 2007. I'mnot talking about farming and irrigation.

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Please elaborate.

Humans learning irrigation from the aliens was stupid...indoor plumbing would a better leap.

The great moving set pieces, the entrance to the temple...the spiral stairs, explaining how they built those great big moving slabs of stone to move as they did would have been more interesting then the patronizing irrigation and farming. The MOST interesting question might have been why even bother building it? What real purpose did the spiral stairs serve? To me it seemed like it was just written in to serve another (lame) action piece and served no other purpose.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Humans learning irrigation from the aliens was stupid...indoor plumbing would a better leap.

The great moving set pieces, the entrance to the temple...the spiral stairs, explaining how they built those great big moving slabs of stone to move as they did would have been more interesting then the patronizing irrigation and farming. The MOST interesting question might have been why even bother building it? What real purpose did the spiral stairs serve? To me it seemed like it was just written in to serve another (lame) action piece and served no other purpose.

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Ah, okay. I was confused.

While they're at it, they could mention that the aliens gave the Hovitos motion/light detecting sensors in their temple, too.

The problem, though, is that we accept that temples have engineering and mechanics far beyond what is remotely "realistic" for ancient peoples as a matter of course. Each film has featured booby traps and mechanisms which are not at all plausible given the know-how of the builders.

So if the Ugha's possession of such technology requires a special explanation, then you start poking holes in the universe.

Lance Quazar said:

Wasn't "Welcome to Earth" from Independence Day? Man, the "City of the Gods" ending doesn't work on so many levels, but I though the way Los Dioses was visualized was very cool. There was a palpable sense of mystery and danger as they were approaching the city which I didn't feel at all in KOTCS.

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oh gosh you're right! It was from Independence day lol I can't believe I didn't remember that.. But it still would have been more fun to hear Harrison say it than Will Smith lol

Lance Quazar said:

I agree that Spalko was a weak villain. The entire movie had the edges rubbed off it, it was very safe and bland without any real sense of danger or stakes. Indy's fight with Dovchevnko was the only time I even briefly felt a sense of suspense. I always thought "Last Crusade" was too soft and comical with its action sequences, but KOTCS is so much worse.

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Yea.. we never got to feel much suspense

Rocket Surgeon said:

I haven't opened the file in awhile, so my memory is somewhat suspect, but my initial feeling was it felt too Casablanca, (overly) and I wasn't able to "see" Indy and Marion exchange the dialogue as written. Funny thing, I would probably feel the same way about Skull if I had read it first! ...and in reality I do feel that way, I have the utmost faith in Karen Allen as an actress who takes her craft seriously, but it seemed to me in filming Skull quick and dirty (Speilberg was pissed at the sand pit scene/gave up and decided to use the best take) they compromised on performances, instead of set pieces.

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The dialogue did need a little tweaking but it could work if properly tweaked, cause it did have some good banter bewteen Indy and Marion.
I agree about the way everything was rushed in crystal skull, the crystal skull novel was so much better, the other day I was reading the novel and then I watched the movie and it seemed like almost every scene in the novel that added character was cut, and rushed right through on film

Rocket Surgeon said:

The aliens are tough to deal with, but I still think it's possible to do, it just needed more development.

One of my favorite lines in Raiders is Belloq's response to Dietrich's unease with the Jewish ritual.

It's obviously his way of manipulating the situation and exerting his influence/power, but just the same, it also puts this doubt about the ark in your mind. Could it be a fake? Could it have been a duplicate to protect the "one true ark", how much of the mythology did you know about the ark, (the bible, Shishak,customs other cultures...etc) going into the film? Could they have tried to build their own ark? A copy? A homage?

I love the way they cast doubt near the end of the picture...it's easy in hind sight to pick through the movie and create arguments that say..."of course that's the real ark" so forth and so on, but for people who looked on the movie as a mystery as well,we're looking for clues to solve the puzzle and make sense of the film and it's direction...Belloq's comment opened up other possibilities!

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Agreed, I loved that as well

Rocket Surgeon said:

That's how I felt the Alien angle could have been dealt with, Indy asked at one point what is this, but they felt compelled to answer the question for you instead of playing it out.

Any way you slice it, I think the alien angle could have been done well if they had left a greater element of mystery and doubt surrounding it instead on spoonfeeding exposition to us.

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We were definitely "spoonfed" but I still don't think I could ever really enjoy an alien crusade.. but I never liked the stones either

Rocket Surgeon said:

Humans learning irrigation from the aliens was stupid...indoor plumbing would a better leap.

The great moving set pieces, the entrance to the temple...the spiral stairs, explaining how they built those great big moving slabs of stone to move as they did would have been more interesting then the patronizing irrigation and farming. The MOST interesting question might have been why even bother building it? What real purpose did the spiral stairs serve? To me it seemed like it was just written in to serve another (lame) action piece and served no other purpose.

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All the set pieces (from all the movies) involving boulders, spikes and poisonous darts are there to serve an "action piece"... it's just that the spiral staircase in KOTCS was a little lackluster. If it had been a tad more interesting/exciting, I think the narrative shortfalls would have been largely inconsequential. As it is, one can?t help question it?s purpose in the movie. Personally, I would have put the booby trap in the cemetery/Orellan?s tomb scene (where it would have been more apt). Oh well?

Lance Quazar said:

So if the Ugha's possession of such technology requires a special explanation, then you start poking holes in the universe.

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Not require,

It would have been MORE INTERESTING than him explaining the "cave paintings"

That's all...

The only part I really liked in Darabont's version was the whole jungle trek to the lost city- specifically the slower pace.

However, in terms of Indy encountering a lost city, I think Monkey King did the best job. There was a feeling that Indy was hopelessly outnumbered and captured in the middle of a sweltering jungle. I wanted to see more of that in Indy's meeting with the Ughas.

(Oh, I did like some of the early stuff Darabont included- such as the rooftop chase and Indy in the city. I just didn't feel like they fit this particular story very well.)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'll like to give my opinion. So I read the script and it was a very fun read (thanks to ronicle by the way!), and the key things to me were the stuff I didn't like:

1- The beginning was a little slower.
2- DIRECT references from past movies....too direct!
3- Way too many patriotism lines. Too many "Yay America!"...
4- The title....pretty dumb thing to dislike, but I like the Kingdom title much more.

and that's pretty much it. All of which I would have eventually forgiven just because it was Indy IV! I waited so long for this movie I'm really happy with whatever they'd given us. NOW! although I prefer the finished product to Darabont's script, there are things I did prefer from his:

1- Indiana Jones competing for Marion. That was such a nice way to tell a love story of two people we know. I think it was so good!

2- MARION! She had so much more "Marion" in her.

3- (Even if I loved the ants in Kingdom), I really really would have loved to see the mutated giant bugs/snake/animals. The way the snake-phobia is dealt with here I love (though I love the way they did it in KoCS as well.).

4- MORE USE OF THE WHIP!!!! There is a part that is practically identical to SHia Labouf's swinging vines, but with Indy and his whip! That is hardest thing to forgive Kingdom about....not much whip.....oh well.

I got Indy IV! YAY!

I just re-read the Thin Man chase/fight scene on the rooftop.

Wow, just on the page that sequence is more thrilling than ANYTHING in KOTCS.

Crap!!!!

The stairs were there presumably because someone liked them in "Infernal Machine".

The boat chase was also more exciting in the Monkey King script than in LC. When you make a movie you have to cut a lot of things because of budget or time.

Wilhelm said:

The boat chase was also more exciting in the Monkey King script than in LC. When you make a movie you have to cut a lot of things because of budget or time.

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Where can this script be found?

Based on the summary found in the Indiana Jones wiki, I'm glad it never saw the light of day. Sounds pretty out there.