This ought to even up the odds...

Canyon

Well-known member
Okay. I have been thinking a lot about Indy 4 and after looking at most of the threads on this board, I cannot believe how negative most of them are, whether the discussion is about the quality of the film, or if it is about the most discussed thing of all, Harrison Ford's age. I now feel that it is time to even up the score, and I am not trying to play Devil's advocate, I just feel that most people are being far to harsh about this film, even before it has been made.

I have several reasons why I think that Indy 4 is going to work, which I will now explain:

Firstly, George Lucas.
Okay, I know that most of you so far hate the new Star Wars movies, but I think that there have been far too many unfair comments made about him. Once upon a time, a promising young film director called George Lucas brought out a film called THX 1138, which went down pretty well with critics. A few years later, he brought out another film, which some of you may have heard of. Star Wars. As all of you know, this film blew everyone away. In the same decade, he came up with a fantastic idea, about an archaeologist adventurer who searched in exotic, foreign lands for ancient artefacts, a man who faced danger and excitement at every turn. Today, we all know and love this character as Indiana Jones, the world's greatest screen hero and adventurer!
I am well aware Star Wars:The Phantom Menace was not very well received by the cinema going public and many even disliked Attack of the Clones. I will admit, the new Star Wars film can never measure up to the originals, and not even Star Wars Episode III will be able to do that, but I do believe that George Lucas has come back on form with Episode II and I also believe that Episode III will be blow everyone away. Please bear in mind that he has a helluva lot to live up to. Imagine if over twenty years ago, you brought out a film like Star Wars, something which not only blew everyone away, but something that people treated more like a religion than a film.
If you go back to Episode I, you will see that minus Jar Jar, you have a fairly entertaining film. If you go back to watch Episode II, I believe that you have a great film. I think that the casting was excellent, the story and script were very good, and lastly, because I know that special effects do not just make a film by themselves, the effects done by Industrial Light and Magic were nothing short of spectacular.
My first reason: George Lucas has come back on form, he will come back to Indy 4 and I believe that he is going to surprise a lot of people.

Secondly, Steven Spielberg.
Spielberg has to be one of, if not, the best directors that has ever lived. Not only did he direct the original Indy trilogy (and it's always great to see a director return to his original project) he has also directed some great classics namely, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jaws, ET, The Color Purple, Schlinder's List etc. He is also, in my opinion, one of the most gifted directors around today. I remember a few years ago during an interview, he said that he actually missed making big epic movies, and I felt that he was hinting towards the Indy films. That comment stayed with me, as I knew at that point he was dying to direct another Indy film. It's gonna be great to have the original team back and I feel that Spielberg is a crucial part to that team.
My second reason: Steven Spielberg is a fantastic director and someone who thoroughly enjoyed directing the Indiana Jones trilogy. He is also someone who I am sure will do an amazing job of directing Indy 4.

Thirdly, Harrison Ford.
To me, Harrison Ford is probably not only one of, but quite possibly the greatest actor the world has ever seen. When Harrison was in Star Wars, critics loved his performance as the sexy scoundrel, Han Solo. Four years later, he starred in the first Indiana Jones film, Raiders of the Lost Ark. He became an international superstar, and his performance was hailed by critics by being similar to that of Errol Flynn, Humprey Bogart etc. The great thing about Harrison's performance in the Indiana Jones trilogy is he is an everyman playing someone who is also an everyman. At the end of the day, Indiana Jones, although brave, daring and heroic, is also just a man. He does some of the most amazingly fantastic things and goes on some of the greatest adventurers and the best thing about Indy is the fact that he is mortal, therefore making it lot easier for him to die, thus making the character more interesting. Harrison's performance as Indy was, in my opinion, the greatest portrayal of a character that I have ever seen in the history of cinema. He successfully portrayed the 'heroic one' with just the right amount of charm and humour, and the fact that he did most of his own stunts added to his successful portrayal of this wonderfully popular character.
I know why many of you have doubts about Harrison in Indy 4 and it comes down to one thing. His age. Yes, I am well aware that Harrison is now 61, and he will be 62/63 when he makes Indy 4 and when the film comes out. What you have to understand is that after Last Crusade Harrison did not give up doing action roles. He went on to make, Patriot Games, The Fugitive, Clear and Present Danger, Air Force one, Six days Seven nights etc. Now if he had not done an action film since the last Indy film (say for instance the last one was twenty years ago) then yes, it might be time to move on, but the fact is that Harrison is STILL doing his own stunts (and this can be seen in Hollywood Homicide). He was once described as being "physical to a fault." I am more than aware that in the new Indy film, our beloved archaeologist will not be able to move as fast has he did in the 1930's, but to be fair that is part of life. People get older, and I can't help but think that people cannot handle the fact that their favourite actor is no longer a 'young' man. I also feel that there is too much emphasis put on age and people like to use the word 'old' far too much. If it's the fact that Harrison has now got grey hair, he'll probably be wearing a fedora most of the time in this new film, and if that is all everyone is concerned about, then I say you have very little to worry about.
I believe that Harrison Ford will be wonderful in Indy 4 because he is the one who wanted to come back and play Indy in the first place! The fact that it is his idea, and also the fact that he seems extremely enthusiastic about playing Indy, is enough for me to believe that he WILL indeed be great in Indy 4. Ford is a very intelligent man, someone who has not just been lucky in his film career, but someone who has made some great film choices. Granted, he has made some mistakes in the past, but he is only human. I believe that it is his enthusiasm for the project that means he will give the film 110% and indeed for all the reasons above, I believe that 'The Three' will do a wonderful job of making Indy's fourth screen adventure! Please understand that Harrison would not be making another Indy film if he didn't a) feel up to it and b) didn't want to do it. It's has nothing to do with money, it's about the enjoyment of making another Indy film.
My third reason: Harrison Ford, possibly the greatest actor of our generation <small>and the fact that he was drop dead gorgeous in the trilogy, and will no doubt be a dreamboat in this one for all of us ladies! *swoon*</small>

There are other factors that I feel contribute to this being a great film. Frank Darabont, who I feel will no doubt will come up with a wonderful script. Also ILM, who I am sure will bring us some fantastic special effects. The three films had elements of supernatural fantasy and I feel that a little of this in the new film would be needed, just as long as it is not overused. John Williams, I am sure will create an absolutely wonderful soundtrack, Drew Struzan who will once again provide us with some mind blowing artwork, and also to the rest of the cast and crew who will no doubt be great!

I would just like to end by saying it is a shame that many people (including Indy fans) already seem to have a lot of pre-conceived ideas about this film, and it has not even been made yet! It's a lot like taking a driving test. If you tell yourself before hat you are no good and that you will fail, you probably will. What I am trying to say is, if everyone makes up their mind that the film is already rubbish, when the film comes out they will go to the cinema and will have already made up their minds about the film. In turn, they will not enjoy the film because they have already made their minds up.

Lastly, I think that having Indy in the 1950's has great potential. The era of the 1950's till, for me, holds a mystical feel to it, and I consider the first half of the 20's century to be a very special time. I really think it's about time that people cut George Lucas, Steven Speilberg and Harrison Ford some slack. Here are some of the greatest men to ever be involved in the history of film-making and when these three men get together, the magic starts. So don't worry about it, and let these three men get on with it, and more importantly, trust them... :D
 

Venture

New member
Canyon, m'love, you have my utmost agreement and support. Except for the part about Harrison being hot, of course. Cool, yes...Hot? My wife might worry.
 

Canyon

Well-known member
It's great to see someone agreeing with me! :D

<small>BTW, Indy is cool and from a woman's point of view Harrison is a real hottie as well!</small>
 

Canyon

Well-known member
Why do people insist that Ford needs loads of make up for Indy 4?! Harrison has never been an actor who uses make up (except for the make up that actors wear on a film set). I just wish that people wouldn't be so negative and use that word 'old' so many times...

I think the reason that the three have made us 'wait' so long is the fact that they are trying to do everything in their power to come up with a great film for everyone. Okay. Yes, it would have been great if Indy 4 were made a few years ago, but at the end of the day, we have one man and one man alone to thank for the fact that Indy is coming back at all. Harrison Ford. So what do you want him to do? Give up action sequences just because he is in his 60's!? The trouble with society today is that it judges people by their age, and not by how good a job they can do. I just saw something earlier on the net where someone said that Spielberg was 'too old' to direct another Indy film! Too old!? How on earth can anyone accuse Speilberg of being too old!? Once again, people are being judged on their age, and not by their skill. Sean Connery has made a League of Extrordinary Gentlemen and he is 73, yet no-one accuses him of being 'too old', so why do so many people keeping saying this about Harrison? I for one thought he looked great in Hollywood Homicide.

Harrison is going to put himself through a lot to bring everyone a new Indy film, and it feels as if this is not good enough for some people. The amount of work that he put into the original trilogy was amazing and it is Ford's enthusiasm, and this alone which I feel will make Indy 4 work. I think it will be fascinating to see Indiana Jones in the 1950's because, as I have said before, it is a great time, and they will be able to encorperate some great scenes into the film. For example, I would love to see a scene where the camera pans around inside Indy's house. We see Indy sat asleep in a chair, dressed in a tweed suit, bow tie hanging limply around his neck, and he is also wearing wire-rimmed glasses. The telephone rings and Indy jumps awake. I think something like that would be great, and perhaps during the scene where Indy's old girlfriends turn up. One goes up to him, kisses him and they says something like: "Well Indiana, the years have been kind". I think that kind of thing would work very well in Indy 4. Sorry to go on, but I feel that too many people are judging this film, even before it has been released or even made!
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Some points...

George Lucas - he once was great...Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and of course, American Graffiti. But lately...well, people have been known to lose quality as they go along.

Steven Spielberg - okay, he's great, perhaps one of the best we have today, but has he lost his ability to do a fun action picture that is still profound...or is it one or the other?

Harrison Ford - I've seen him as Jones, Han Solo, Bob Falfa, and the guy in Witness, and he doesn't really impress me that much. Maybe it does take something special to play a plain old everyman, but in Ford's case, he is a plain old everyman, so I think we might be overrating his acting abilities. As for his age...go for it. I think age is rather interesting anyhow.

Darabont - I don't know his work, but it sounds good - we shall see

Williams - he should manage well

Struzan - actually rather important...considering modern trends in film posters, a return to the style of the trilogy is very welcome

Once again...the older, the better. Skill and wisdom come with age.
 

Canyon

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
Harrison Ford: As for his age...go for it. I think age is rather interesting anyhow.

Once again...the older, the better. Skill and wisdom come with age.

Allow me to agree with you in every single way. :D
 

monkey

Guest
Great essay Canyon! I enjoyed it very much.

For my thoughts:

I agree with pretty much everything you say here. You make a very strong case.

I agree with you about Harrison Ford and Action scenes. I think he can still pull it off pretty well. I don't think that's a problem at all.

I do have somewhat of a problem with Indiana Jones in the 50's, but that's another discussion.

One important point, and TOJ called it out, is that a lot of the naysaying about this film may be due to resentment that it took this long to make it.

It just shouldn't have taken this long. But hey, people make mistakes, and misplace priorities sometimes.

I think this Indy film will be just fine too.
 

HovitosKing

Well-known member
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I just can't get the image of a 1950's Indiana Jones out of my mind. I see Indy living in a cookie cutter house in a "Pleasantville" suburb, with a "Leave it to Beaver" family and a pretty little wife who cooks and cleans while dressed in her best pearls. Can't break the stereotype!!
 

bob

New member
Interesting essay Canyon....

I cannot say that i COMPLETELY agree (Ford greatest actor of all time), I dont think that the apparent negative feeling in this forum should be looked at as real hostility to Indy IV rather a glut until we get some solid Indy news in which i expect the number of 'negative' remarks to fall..

I know that GL, SS and possibly Darabout are capable of making a great movie but they have an enormous challange, not because i am afraid of them making a bad movie but becasue i just think that Indy IV will have to be twice as good in story/spectacle terms than the trilogy to shift all the nostaliga that we have for the trilogy and to cover up the cracks in the Indy series of the setting and Fords Age.

I have no doubt that Ford is a great actor but at the end of the day unfortunately Indiana Jones IV is not going to be a character piece as such it is going to be an action film based around a character which although ageable in the public perception is forever 30 something. Yes Ford has made action movies since LC but nothing coming close to a traditional action hero role (to my memory), he played the white collar middle aged hero who didnt get involved (when compared with Indy) with that much action; not a swashbuckling action hero, whose credability in action scenes depends on us believing in him being able to fight people etc, remember Indy's action scenes do work in the real world to a certain extent, he does get bruised and battered
 

torao

Moderator Emeritus
i think the negative thinking(which isn`t IMO THAT strong) just comes because we all f*** fear that our beloved film experiences will be in some way ruined by totally screwed up indyIV.

to harrison ford...
well how he looks or whatever that`s just very subjective. i mean i love him ...he`s totally "hot" as i think canyon said, he`s just THE MAN and i can`t understand that you cannot find him cool. but maybe that has to do with the fact that i`m a woman ;) however.... i just wanted to express by that how varying that harrison ford issue can be.


but on the other hand , contrary to all that negative buzz. just look at that frank marshall statement concerning the b- movie feel indy4 ought have and that the work with less possibilities enhances the creativity. woohoooo! that just makes my hart jump up and down for indyVI!!!! bring it on!!!!
 

Venture

New member
As pertains to Ford's age I must interject. Sir Sean is in his 70s, and he pulled of a rather spry Allan Quatermain in LXG. I know, I know...I'm the only one here who enjoyed that movie. Nevertheless, Ford's aged at least as well as Connery, so where's the beef?
 

Canyon

Well-known member
Gee, I really have started something here...

I really appreciate everyone's feedback.

Bob and Monkey, I didn't intend to write an essay, just had to write down how I was feeling, but I'm glad that you enjoyed it just the same. ;)
 
Canyon said:

To me, Harrison Ford is probably not only one of, but quite possibly the greatest actor the world has ever seen.
<small>and the fact that he was drop dead gorgeous in the trilogy, and will no doubt be a dreamboat in this one for all of us ladies! *swoon*</small>

Wow, Canyon...once again your words blew me away. I definitely agree with everything you have said (especially the quote above...sighhhhhhh). It is Indyfans like you who give me hope about INdy 4 in spite of all the bad rap it's been getting lately on this board.

Thanks!
 

Canyon

Well-known member
Hey Indygirl21! Thanks for the support! :D

Indeed, I am getting incresingly fed up of people's negativity. I just wish that more people would have more faith in the three...

BTW, Indy 4 is not just only gonna be great co's of the action and Indy etc, but also for the fact that I'm sure Harrison will look absolutely gorgeous as well!!! :D ;) :)
 

fatima

New member
Canyon, I'm sorry if I won't express myself more than just saying: YOU SAID IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!can't agree more with you! your words are always wise and from the bottom of your heart, you can't do a small post without put your feelings on it and I trully apreciate to read them.

I think I'm a fan of you! :D
 

Canyon

Well-known member
Gee Fatima, I don't know what to say. :eek: Thank you for your kind words. They have made my day! :D

It's really great to see that I am not the only one who feels that Indy 4 could work quite well.

Thanks once again! ;)
 

westford

Member
I reckon Lucas should do a good job, so long as he sticks to being the producer. There's some joke about the words Star Wars fans dread the most - 'written and directed by George Lucas'... (Didn't say it was funny...)

Spielberg... Having heard and read him talk about the Indy films in several interviews, you can see he loved doing them. And his kids loved them too. He's not gonna ruin something for his kids, is he?

Ford can still do it, he wouldn't try it if he didn't think it would work. And maybe by this time Indy will have learnt to fly a plane properly...

As for Darabont - he's familiar with the character having worked on several Young Indy episodes (OK, I know some people don't see Young Indy as The Indy...). Plus he's responsible for bringing Stephen King's (Rita Hayworth and) Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile to the big screen. As far as book adaptations go, they're bloody good. Shawshank's one of my top ten favourite films, and I trust my own judgement even if no-one else does!

Music-wise, as long as Williams' Raiders March is in there, I won't complain! Something new would be nice, or just some new variations on the old - I don't think Williams will let us down.

Whatever happens though, would a disappointing Indy IV make me less of an Indy fan? No way! What about you?
 

intergamer

New member
it'll be good

everyone's worried about cg and so forth: but people have said over and over again that they will stick to the same style

people probably will be kinda disappointed, they'll say the old ones were better

but i think we just have to get used to it, just like we got used to titles like "IJ and the Temple of Doom"

same goes for episodes I and II - they aren't any worse or cheesier than the first ones, but we have evolved to like every part of the old ones...if you play them side by side, you will see what i mean...remember, the critics said the same things about C3P0 in the OT that they did about jar jar in the prequels

in short, it will be good (at least as good as temple of doom and last crusades), and all you whiners won't realize it for another decade, if at all (because we now have such a blown up perspective of how good the first ones were)

Bravo, canyon
 

intergamer

New member
hey bickersons

heres an interesting thought

maybe episodes I and II aren't as good as the OT

maybe IJ4 won't be as good as the OT

But, would you prefer to never have these movies made?

Even if IJ4 doesn't measure up, it will still be great to see IJ in action again - don't tell me would rather have 3 star wars films than 6.

anybody who thinks that they should not be made is an idiot, so just deal with it, as fisk said, and let spielberg and lucas and ford and connery and darabont work their magic

last time i checked, these guys were good
 
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