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Old 10-03-2018, 12:53 PM   #526
Z dweller
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
It's not that they're not committed, it's just that they don't know what to do with it.


Your Honor, we contend that the defendant is not guilty of neglecting her baby.
She just didn't know what to feed him.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:35 PM   #527
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https://uproxx.com/movies/frank-mars...ndiana-jones-5
More Frank Marshall:
Quote:
Q: So, Indiana Jones 5 has been delayed again. I keep thinking, if it gets pushed a couple more years, in the movie Indiana Jones could just buy a ticket to see Raiders of the Lost Ark in theaters.
[Laughs] Oh… you’re right!

Q: Isn’t that weird?
Well, all these things are weird when we start talking about the movies that we’ve made that you never dreamed would have this kind of effect.

Q: Most of yours do.
Well, you know I’ve worked with some fantastic people.

Q: So Indy 5 is going to happen, right?
Yes.

Q: Every time there’s a delay I get worried.
We just have to get the story right this time. We know that it’s a cherished franchise, and we gotta get it right.
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Old 10-03-2018, 01:50 PM   #528
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I guess we are at a point where the players are willing to openly heap shade on CRYSTAL SKULL.

Story meetings imply a page-one rewrite. At this point I am less excited about the actual movie than about the trail of rejected scripts that led up to it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 03:07 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by Z dweller


Your Honor, we contend that the defendant is not guilty of neglecting her baby.
She just didn't know what to feed him.

Oh, come on. Now you're just being facetious.
The two situations aren't equal at all. Like I said before, there's really one main question that has to be focused on with this film--how the hell do you revive a franchise that's been mostly dormant for ten years? Indy's popular, yes, but not so much as SW or Marvel, and therefore trying to craft a successful sequel requires a lot of difficult work.
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Balanced, as it should be.
.
Was hoping someone would pick up on that reference .
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
Georges Polti would like a word with you. Use the search, I'm too lazy. 36 plots.
Ah, yes. The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations, an addendum to the thirty-six already provided by Carlo Gozzi. Indy's tales mostly revolve around a slight subversion of No. 9, the "daring enterprise". Instead of the hero taking the pursued object in the end (as in Polti's), Indy ends up losing it for one reason or another. Again, formulaic isn't always a bad thing, and should make writing a story easier, but there's so many other factors behind this which make me doubt that.
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Old 10-03-2018, 07:44 PM   #530
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The two situations aren't equal at all.
Well, we could spend ages arguing about semantics - but whichever way you look at it, they wasted two years.

TWO YEARS, with no progress whatsoever.

Did you see this video I posted in another thread?
I do hope Ford is ok, but we are getting to the stage where the idea of him playing Indy in any capacity is becoming laughable.

And I'm convinced that the main reason why Koepp's script was dumped is that it featured Ford for the entire movie (no flashbacks with a younger actor), but it didn't manage to deal convincingly with the constraints imposed by Harry's age.

Hence they brought in Kasdan Jr, who wrote "Solo".
I know it bombed at the box office, and I can't judge it as I didn't watch it, but a lot of people liked it, including several here at the Raven.
I suspect Disney are now inching towards the realization that two parallel stories, one set in the past with a younger actor, are the way to go.

But every day that goes by without progress makes it more likely that the next movie, whenever it happens, will be a full recast.
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:11 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Indy's tales mostly revolve around a slight subversion of No. 9, the "daring enterprise". Instead of the hero taking the pursued object in the end (as in Polti's), Indy ends up losing it for one reason or another...

Using this Summary because I'm lazy, I always put the movies into the following categories.

Raiders = 9
Temple = 30
Crusade = 21/35

and

Skull = 33 (bwahahahaha)

The last movie, Indy V should be 22, when Indy sacrifices himself for the greater good and all of it is lost.
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:38 PM   #532
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
I do hope Ford is ok, but we are getting to the stage where the idea of him playing Indy in any capacity is becoming laughable.

ANY capacity? Indiana Jones is a tenured professor. As Ford becomes less believable as a two-fisted action hero, he becomes more believable as a wise academic. Both are facets of the character. A fifth movie was always going to have to leverage the latter over the former.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:22 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by Udvarnoky
ANY capacity? Indiana Jones is a tenured professor. As Ford becomes less believable as a two-fisted action hero, he becomes more believable as a wise academic. Both are facets of the character. A fifth movie was always going to have to leverage the latter over the former.
What's Indy's average on campus screen time?

Even counting the long Ark exposition scene in Raiders and the motocycle chase in KOTCS (and not considering TOD), I'd say less than 10 minutes per movie.
The rest is all action.

Are you proposing we invert ratio in Indy 5, and have just 10 minutes of action in the movie?

Well, I guess Ford could deal with that, even in his 90s.

Bring on Indy 6 and 7!
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:38 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
Are you proposing we invert ratio in Indy 5, and have just 10 minutes of action in the movie?


You'd be surprised how much time they could milk action out of this man, climbing out of an office window. Think of the angles Steven could do:



He could easily double the screen time, with the same effect, and add SLO-MO!
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:45 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by Pale Horse
He could easily double the screen time, with the same effect, and add SLO-MO!
Good point.

If Spileberg does that with every single punch, we could have 30 minute fistfights and the like.

Problem solved!
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Old 10-05-2018, 01:43 PM   #536
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Who said anything about a 79 year old throwing a punch? I was just talking about him leaving the building through a side entrance window, because his prune juice left a stain in his depends in front of a full lecture room!

I swear, if they make Indy V (and Jones, in particular) a mirror of Lloyd Bridges in Hot Shots! I'd pay for the entire Raven community to see the first showing!
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:49 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse

I swear, if they make Indy V (and Jones, in particular) a mirror of Lloyd Bridges in Hot Shots! I'd pay for the entire Raven community to see the first showing!

Now THAT would be quite a film!
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:01 AM   #538
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These news don't sound very promising. Though the story going back to global scope sounds good to me, both Raiders and Last Crusade did that (though LC less so) and were better for it. I suppose they could go for a feel like the Dan Brown movies, but I dunno... Indy was always shown more as the adventurer then the scholar (even if the scholar in him comes out at times briefly), so that's what people will still be expecting. Mind you, I think that would be certainly an interesting thing to explore.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:42 PM   #539
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Just imagine if they had stuck to the original release date. We'd only be about nine months away from a new Indy film...
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:20 AM   #540
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Back to Square 1. Again.

https://nerdist.com/indiana-jones-5-...rank-marshall/

Let's hope it doesn't get pushed back to 2022 at this rate. Were Koepp's numerous script drafts really that unworkable?
EDIT: This line right here has to be my favorite from the article (emphasis mine):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerdist
Marshall, who started his collaboration with director Steven Spielberg on Raiders of the Lost Ark, said he hasn’t spent much time considering the critical reaction to the last installment, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, or worrying about a film that that fans will think is “better.” “We’re storytellers and that should be the bar that we set for ourselves,” he said. “That’s something that I apply to Jurassic and I apply to Bourne and I apply to Indiana Jones. Those are all franchises, and we’ve just got to tell a good story.
Interpret that as you will. But as someone who almost passed out from boredom while watching the newest installment of the Bourne saga, I really hope that Marshall and Kasdan take a different route for Indy 5. Again, I didn't mind KotCS, but I'd prefer a slightly less lukewarm farewell to the saga.

Last edited by TheFirebird1 : 10-12-2018 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:32 AM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
https://nerdist.com/indiana-jones-5-...rank-marshall/

Let's hope it doesn't get pushed back to 2022 at this rate. Were Koepp's numerous script drafts really that unworkable?
EDIT: This line right here has to be my favorite from the article (emphasis mine):

Interpret that as you will. But as someone who almost passed out from boredom while watching the newest installment of the Bourne saga, I really hope that Marshall and Kasdan take a different route for Indy 5. Again, I didn't mind KotCS, but I'd prefer a slightly less lukewarm farewell to the saga.
Marshal is ONLY the person who is hired to make it physically happen. He has zero influence on the actual storyline. Lucas will most likely be asked for input WHEN Spielberg feels he has something he wants to direct.

If Spielberg wanted to really make 5 it would happen very fast & within 2 years be in theatres but clearly he is dragging his heels now. Ford is just too old now BR2049 proved he is carrying a serious leg injury & cannot run properly. They can shoot around that but 5 would have to let most of the action be either something Indy has initiated or can influence without too much physical action otherwise your into sidekick territory (most likely Asian as well to appeal to the Asian markets which saved Ready Player One from booking a massive loss!).

5 is unlikely to happen the longer the delay the less chance it will ever happen. Announcing a release date & 2019 UK filming start date then cancelling that 3 months later shows either Disney or Spielberg are very unsure its such a good idea to go forward on this final sequel.

Hiring the man who writes bland Disney Star Wars is not a good sign either. If Koepp could not pull the ideas together then its unlikely someone else can as Koepp & Spielberg are pretty familiar with each others strengths & weaknesses.

Its pure unobtanium fantasy vapourware unless there is a dramatic story breakthrough finding a new way to tell a commercial story with Ford as the much older Indy whilst also keeping most of the fan friendly elements from previous films in the franchise.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:17 AM   #542
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https://www.metro.us/entertainment/m...jones-5-update
Quote:
“We’re still in that script development stage. But we are actively working on the story and the script. Just as we are with Jurassic World 3.” Jurassic World 3 won’t be released until June 11, 2021, while Indiana Jones 5 is currently scheduled for July 9, 2021.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:52 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Nothing there we didn't already know...
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird1
Were Koepp's numerous script drafts really that unworkable?
Who knows?
Personally, I don't mind Koepp out of the picture: he already got his chance and blew it with KOTCS.

Thing is, time is ticking away, and writing a decent Indy story starring a nearly octogenarian actor is pretty much...

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Old 10-12-2018, 05:29 PM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyForever
Ford is just too old now BR2049 proved he is carrying a serious leg injury & cannot run properly. They can shoot around that but 5 would have to let most of the action be either something Indy has initiated or can influence without too much physical action.
I wanted to talk about this for a little bit before I addressed anything else. First off, most of 2049's footage was filmed in 2016--mind you, only a brief period after the accident--so it's no surprise that anybody, young or old, would still probably be in excruciating pain. Remember, it was decided in a court of law that Harrison could have possibly died in the set incident. But besides that, even on 2049's set, Harrison was functioning perfectly. Hell, according to Ryan Gosling he was doing backflips and other gymnastic moves exquisitely for fun on set, and apparently still packs a punch. So as for physicality, I strenuously disagree with you here.
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Originally Posted by Moedred
I believe the Nerdist report from yesterday was a clarification of this one (from October 1st) but correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
Personally, I don't mind Koepp out of the picture: he already got his chance and blew it with KOTCS.
Although I beg to differ on KotCS, I agree with the first part of your statement. Koepp was never exactly necessary for the film, all it really needed was a competent screenwriter.
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
Thing is, time is ticking away, and writing a decent Indy story starring a nearly octogenarian actor is pretty much...

I get it. Harrison Ford is almost eighty years old. But here's another thing. I really don't care. Especially when it's brought up every two posts. If he can do at least one more movie (even with alternating storylines) it's not a problem. If he can't, well, that's terrible, but we'll have to move on. Bar some debilitating predicament that could ruin the film because of this, there's no reason that it should be obsessed over. People age. Harrison has aged pretty well, if you ask me. But it's not even close to my top reasons of why I'm worried about this film.
It's all about time management. If they can't manage it well, then it's done for. If they can get working immediately, then we're in luck.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:40 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z dweller
...
Thing is, time is ticking away, and writing a decent Indy story starring a nearly octogenarian actor is pretty much...

Uh, they never actually didn't complete a mission. It was more like Mission Highly successful. It's a bad analogy, LOL

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IPeople age. Harrison has aged pretty well, if you ask me. But it's not even close to my top reasons of why I'm worried about this film.
It's all about time management. If they can't manage it well, then it's done for. If they can get working immediately, then we're in luck.


This. As someone who gets called out as an ageist, it has nothing to do with age. For me, the story has to be compelling. And well acted.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:54 PM   #546
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I really don't care.
We know, but that is completely immaterial.

The fact is, Ford's age makes it objectively very difficult to come up with a good story for Indy 5, particularly if they are not willing to do parallel stories.

The comedy angle has already been done in KOTCS, what do you do next?
I guess they could play the cynical old Indy angle (think Eastwood in "Gran Torino"), but I can't see Ford/Spielberg or indeed the Mouse execs going for that.
Really, who'd want to watch that movie, apart from a handful of hard core fans?

Which leaves us with that wonderful Shifrin tune in 5/4.

If and when Koepp's discarded scripts surface, we'll see how he meant to deal with it.
Meanwhile, good luck to Kasdan Jr., he's gonna need it.
I do hope he was brought in to do parallel stories.

IMO, that's the only way they can try to salvage the project at this stage.


Oh, and shame on you for quoting Ramsey, I can't stand the arrogant p....k.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:59 PM   #547
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Uh, they never actually didn't complete a mission. It was more like Mission Highly successful. It's a bad analogy, LOL
True, but you get my meaning.

Unless you just morphed into The Eternally Hopeful Horsie™ , which would surprise me no end.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:15 PM   #548
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If the story was about how Indy was pulled into one last adventure (like TOD, where he's in the middle of something and can't not get involved) at a point in his life when he's stopped adventuring--thus leading to a lot of tense/sobering bits about how he just can't do it like he used to--but manages to save the day one more time?

Sounds good to me. But at this point, I don't think you can really get away with glossing over it like KOTCS did. If they're making the film smartly (as I'd hope Spielberg would do), the film can have Indy pull off some cool stuff, but balance that with moments where Jones really has to push more than he ever had to before. It would add a new dimension to the story. Honestly, Indy ought to still be pretty good with firearms if nothing else.

If they've gotta have a younger sidekick with him, I'd love for there to be moments where Jones manages to outdo the new blood with his sheer experience, and I don't just mean in archeological knowledge. Like he manages to take out a tough dude by simply knowing where to hit the guy once, afterword saying "you could tell he had a glass jaw/his form was weak/he was scared," or something along those lines.

KOTCS was the first film back. We wanted to emulate the good old days. I don't think a fifth film (especially another sequel made in this more advanced movie era) need be as concerned about recapturing the glory days. I don't want Indy to be a wheezing cripple who can't hang, but I am perfectly happy with him being out of step and having to rely even more on his wits. Have him trade decent punches with lackeys, but for the big Pat Roach-type dude? He's gotta out-think him this time.

But hey, that's if the film even happens at this point.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:26 PM   #549
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If the story was about how Indy was pulled into one last adventure (like TOD, where he's in the middle of something and can't not get involved) at a point in his life when he's stopped adventuring--thus leading to a lot of tense/sobering bits about how he just can't do it like he used to--but manages to save the day one more time?

Sounds good to me. But at this point, I don't think you can really get away with glossing over it like KOTCS did. If they're making the film smartly (as I'd hope Spielberg would do), the film can have Indy pull off some cool stuff, but balance that with moments where Jones really has to push more than he ever had to before. It would add a new dimension to the story. Honestly, Indy ought to still be pretty good with firearms if nothing else.

If they've gotta have a younger sidekick with him, I'd love for there to be moments where Jones manages to outdo the new blood with his sheer experience, and I don't just mean in archeological knowledge. Like he manages to take out a tough dude by simply knowing where to hit the guy once, afterword saying "you could tell he had a glass jaw/his form was weak/he was scared," or something along those lines.

KOTCS was the first film back. We wanted to emulate the good old days. I don't think a fifth film (especially another sequel made in this more advanced movie era) need be as concerned about recapturing the glory days. I don't want Indy to be a wheezing cripple who can't hang, but I am perfectly happy with him being out of step and having to rely even more on his wits. Have him trade decent punches with lackeys, but for the big Pat Roach-type dude? He's gotta out-think him this time.

But hey, that's if the film even happens at this point.
This was suggested before, but how do you frame the tone of this type of movie?

I don't think constantly bouncing between cynical realism and comedy would work.
You gotta pick one, at least in the main.

So, mainly tense/sobering with a dash of comedy here and there?
Or the reverse?

I don't know, I just don't see it for an Indy adventure - not for one I'd want to watch anyway.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:31 PM   #550
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Originally Posted by Z dweller
This was suggested before, but how do you frame the tone of this type of movie?

I don't think constantly bouncing between cynical realism and comedy would work.
You gotta pick one, at least in the main.

So, mainly tense/sobering with a dash of comedy here and there?
Or the reverse?

I don't know, I just don't see it for an Indy adventure - not for one I'd want to watch anyway.

Something like a lighter version of Logan? That film still had humor in it but wasn't a comedy.

Actually, I feel like the tone of ROTLA is pretty much right. There were absurd, Saturday-matinee aspects to ROTLA but our characters grounded it. It wasn't as overtly silly as the sequels have been. If they could return to something in-line with Raiders then we'd be pitch perfect.
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