Novels vs. YIJC

Raiders90

Well-known member
If you had to choose only one, which would you pick as the ''true'' version of Indy's backstory--the YIJC or the Bantam novels?
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Raiders112390 said:
If you had to choose only one, which would you pick as the ''true'' version of Indy's backstory--the YIJC or the Bantam novels?

I haven't read any of the Bantam novels, but it would be hard to ignore the YIJC (or The Adventures of YIJ as I saw them).
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Junior Jones said:
With a little bit of tinkering, they both work.

Indeed. There's very little reason not to think so.

If I were forced to choose, in a desert island sort of choice? I don't know, I like the YIJC, but I feel closer to the Bantam, having read through the series a couple times over the years.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Junior Jones said:
With a little bit of tinkering, they both work.

How do they both work? The very first few of MacGregor's novels contradict the YIJC completely in the timelines presented in both--for example in the novels Indy graduates from the Univ. of Chicago in 1920, yet in the YIJC his first semester is in 1920.
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
There's a pretty full discussion of this topic here.

And here's the aforementioned tinkering:

Junior Jones said:
Rather than start a new thread, I dug this one out of the archives. This is a long post, so stick with me.

Recently I've been going through Indy's life chronologically, and I'm now in the troublesome college years. But I think I've found a way to reconcile the inconsistencies.

Indiana Jones: The College Years

In the quest for a consistent chronology of the life of Indiana Jones that is inclusive of all canon sources, Indy?s college years are the most difficult. According to The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles Indy enrolled in the University of Chicago in the fall of 1919 to study archaeology, and his roommate was Eliot Ness. However, in the first two chapters of Peril at Delphi, Indy graduates in 1920 with a degree in linguistics after completing four years at the University of Chicago; his roommate was Jack Shannon.

Using Lucasfilm guidelines, the films and TV episodes are of a higher canonical value than the novels. However, Peril at Delphi should not be discarded; it can merely be modified in the following ways:
1. The Prologue is dated 1922 and Chapter One begins ?two years earlier?. This should be changed to ?one year earlier.?
2. A mention that Prohibition had started ?a few months back? should be changed to ?last year.?
3. It states that Indy lived in a dormitory for his first two years and in an off-campus apartment the last two. This should be changed to one year each.

These simple changes allow Indy?s college years to be summarized as follows:

September 1919 ? Indy arrives in Chicago and enrolls in the University. Although his interest is in archaeology, he also studies linguistics to pacify his father, who is unhappy with his choice of schools. (He could major in linguistics and minor in archaeology, or perhaps take up a double major of linguistics and archaeology. In either case, he consistently tells friends, ?I?m studying archaeology.?) He lives in a dormitory with his roommate Eliot Ness, who doesn?t share Indy?s love of jazz music. At some point, Eliot introduces Indy to Jack Shannon, an accounting student who plays jazz cornet.

Summer 1920 ? Indy travels to New York and Los Angeles, working to earn money to continue his studies.

Fall 1920 ? Indy returns for his second year at college. He and Jack Shannon rent an off-campus apartment. His teachers include Abner Ravenwood and Charles Kingston; his classmates include Harold Oxley and Magnus Völler.

Winter 1920 ? Indy goes on a field trip to Honduras where he meets René Belloq, a student from the Sorbonne in Paris. They become friends and explore Mayan ruins together; they discover a crystal skull which Belloq steals and sells to F.A. Mitchell-Hedges (from an unproduced Young Indiana Jones Chronicles episode; Indy?s friend Harold Oxley would most likely also be involved in this adventure, given his later interest in crystal skulls).

Spring 1921 ? Indy and Jack graduate from the University of Chicago. (I believe Indy was able to earn a linguistics degree in only two years because he began his studies already speaking over twenty languages.)

Summer 1921 ? After an anthropology expedition to Alaska (from anther unproduced episode) Indy enrolls in the Sorbonne to continue his study of archaeology, influenced by his friend Belloq.

Winter 1921 ? Indy and Belloq travel to Brazil with Charles Fawcett (another unproduced episode).

Spring 1922 ? Indy and Belloq travel to Ur, Iraq with Peruvian archaeologist Andres Uribe. (Arms of Gold)

Summer 1922 ? During the summer break, Indy travels with his former professor, Charles Kingston of the University of Chicago, to Panama. (Staff of Kings)

October 1922 ? In his second year at the Sorbonne, Indy goes with Professor Belecamus to Greece. (Peril at Delphi)

Any comments or criticisms are welcome. Especially regarding my placement of Staff of Kings since I don't own the PSP version which includes this prologue.

Phil
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Attila the Professor said:
There's a pretty full discussion of this topic here.

And here's the aforementioned tinkering:

Do you think it'd be possible for Lucasfilm or whoever runs the books division to be convinced to alter Peril at Delphi to make Delphi fit with the YIJC? Then we'd have the 22 YIJC ''movies'', 12 novel adventures, the 4 films plus (if people count the video games as canon) at least 38 different Indiana Jones adventures in different mediums.
It'd be nice to have one, undisputed canon or timeline of Indy's life/adventures.
 

Junior Jones

New member
Raiders112390 said:
Do you think it'd be possible for Lucasfilm or whoever runs the books division to be convinced to alter Peril at Delphi to make Delphi fit with the YIJC?

It would be up to the publisher (probably with Lucasfilm permission) and whether or not they'd be willing issue a new edition. At this point I'd guess not, since Peril at Delphi is almost twenty years old.

Personally, I don't need an official version of the timeline. My novels are filled with "footnotes" on Post-ItTM notes and my timeline is more logical and historically accurate than any others I've seen, official or not (especially the Ultimate Guide, which is a mess).

Phil
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Junior Jones said:
It would be up to the publisher (probably with Lucasfilm permission) and whether or not they'd be willing issue a new edition. At this point I'd guess not, since Peril at Delphi is almost twenty years old.

Personally, I don't need an official version of the timeline. My novels are filled with "footnotes" on Post-ItTM notes and my timeline is more logical and historically accurate than any others I've seen, official or not (especially the Ultimate Guide, which is a mess).

Phil

How far backwards and forwards does your timeline extend? I mean does it go to say 1908 to 1957 or simply the college years?
 

Junior Jones

New member
Raiders112390 said:
How far backwards and forwards does your timeline extend? I mean does it go to say 1908 to 1957 or simply the college years?

My Indiana Jones timeline goes from July 1, 1899 to around 1994.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Raiders112390 said:
If you had to choose only one, which would you pick as the ''true'' version of Indy's backstory--the YIJC or the Bantam novels?
Like the other guys have said, they both work. Despite a couple of hiccups, I don't really consider them as seperate. Heck, Young Indy has 2 different timelines so your question actually has 3 options.;)
Attila the Professor said:
If I were forced to choose, in a desert island sort of choice? I don't know, I like the YIJC, but I feel closer to the Bantam, having read through the series a couple times over the years.
If we're doing the 'desert island' choice, I'd have to go with the "Chronicles/Adventures of" as I wouldn't be able to survive without "Phantom Train of Doom".
Junior Jones said:
My Indiana Jones timeline goes from July 1, 1899 to around 1994.
Really, Phil? Mine goes from 1872 to 2010.:hat:
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Is it possible to just disregard the YIJC and take the novels as the real version of Indy's youth? Does anyone feel the novels show a more ''realistic'' young Indy?

I mean if you look only at the 4 films, nothing in the novels majorly contradicts them, and Indy's personality in the novels is very similar (edgy, tough, no time for bs personality) to his later self, albeit in the early 20s slightly naive--similar to what an older River Phoenix Indy might've been, whereas the YIJC's version of Indy as late as 1920 is still very naive and has no hint of ruthlessness and is very PC and still goofy even as late as 1920. There's hints of ruthlessness in some of the spy episodes but it seems the writers decided to make him innocent and goofy again after the war--It's like the Indy of 1920 reverted to the Indy of 1916, and forgot all the stuff he had seen in between.

I mean for example could anyone REALLY picture the soft Indy, who seemed to have a late 20th century sense of morality/ethics, as portrayed by SPF romancing a 15 or 16 year old Marion? Whereas the novels and LC already showcase that edgy, "I did what I did, you don't have to be happy about it." gruffness of Indy's character. I could never picture the SPF Indy being as cold or hard edged as the Indy of the 1930s.

It's very very unrealistic to think he could see all the horrors of war that he did as shown in the series and still be a goofy kid and not come out cynical at all or colder or anything; It's also unrealistic to think he could meet all the famous figures he did and be so close, even friends or lovers, with many of them--I mean he was best friends with T.E. Lawrence, a protege of Howard Carter, met Mustafa Kemal, Louis Armstrong, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Pablo Picasso, Thomas Edison, befriended Sean O'Cassey, Leo Tolstoy, was good friends with Ernest Hemingway, roomates with Elliot Ness, pals with Sidney Bechet and Paul Robeson, lovers with Edith Wharton and Matar Hari, worked under Pancho Villa, was treated by Albert Schweizer and met and romanced the daughter of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand, was psychoanalyzed by Sigmund Freud as well.

I mean doesn't the sheer number of famous people he met in the YIJC get a little ridiculous after a while?

In this regard, the novels' version of his youth is more realistic, and is much more focused on what a young Indy (post his adventure in 1912) would've been like--Searching for artifacts. Also the YIJC contradicts the movies several times, including his fear of snakes appearing in 1908, long before his adventure in 1912, and then disappearing in 1919, after the train car incident.

KOTCS doesn't contradict the novels either except to say he rode with Pancho Villa. Indy's activities in 1916 aren't really mentioned outside of his vision quest, so it's still possible he did anyway.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, merged.

The Indycron keeper says "Indy starts attending the University of Chicago in 1920, and graduates in 1922. Later that year he begins studying at the Sorbonne. Peril of Delphi actually covers two different periods of time." The main site says the same thing.
 

Raiders90

Well-known member
Junior Jones said:
It would be up to the publisher (probably with Lucasfilm permission) and whether or not they'd be willing issue a new edition. At this point I'd guess not, since Peril at Delphi is almost twenty years old.

Personally, I don't need an official version of the timeline. My novels are filled with "footnotes" on Post-ItTM notes and my timeline is more logical and historically accurate than any others I've seen, official or not (especially the Ultimate Guide, which is a mess).

Phil

Does your timeline go simply to 1922 as the excerpt I've read on the forum suggests, or beyond that?
 
Montana Smith said:
Is Indy still alive at 111? In the words of Tolkien that would make him eleventy-one!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!
 

StoneTriple

New member
Raiders112390 said:
Do you think it'd be possible for Lucasfilm or whoever runs the books division to be convinced to alter Peril at Delphi to make Delphi fit with the YIJC?

I find it odd that Lucas has created a legion of Star Wars fans who are completely ok with the constant altering of previous work. For some reason they need everything to fit and be perfect. It seems like a portion of that fan base has also decided it needs to start happening with the Indiana Jones franchise as well.

Since there seems to be nothing Lucas enjoys more than revising history (and then claiming he didn't), he should revise the Chronicles, not the novel someone else wrote first - a novel he approved of. Besides, Winston has already altered the Chronicles from their original form a few times. Isn't it about time for some other parts of the shows to be put in the nearest memory hole, the way George Hall was?

True to the nature of this very thread; if someone has issues with either the Chronicles or the books - they need to just pick one or make peace with the differences and contradictions. Considering none of this is real anyway, it's not that hard to do.

Lucas can't even keep his own stories and time lines consistent (Indycron vs films vs Chronicles). The last thing we need him doing is trying to alter someone else's work. MacGregor and McCoy paid close attention to detail and continuity over the years. They shouldn't be made scapegoats for Lucas' inability to do the same.

*edit*
I forgot to answer the original question. For me, it's the novels all the way.
 
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EddyW

Active member
To be honest, I find all the Indy books easier to accept as part of the canon than the YIJC. I watched a few episodes, but it just didn't click with me. The adventures themselves are not very Indyesque and all the famous people that cross his path just feel forced and don't add anything to the character for me, especially since the meetings with these characters didn't influence the Indy we see on film at all. At least not in any mayor way. And this habit of meeting famous historical people ends with the films too, except for Hitler of course.
 
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