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Old 09-10-2008, 08:49 PM   #101
nitzsche
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Wow! Great evidence.

Here endeth the lesson, folks!
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:23 PM   #102
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Stoo, you never cease to amaze me.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:56 PM   #103
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I still don't get how all that freeze frame art department stuff can trump Spielberg filming in the same classroom?
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:03 PM   #104
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Interior locations can be used more than once in films. The same ballroom was used for The Great Gatsby and True Lies, but that doesn't mean that they take place in the same location. The exteriors are what define the location for those particular scenes.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:07 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way of the dodo
I still don't get how all that freeze frame art department stuff can trump Spielberg filming in the same classroom?
Because Steve-O probably didn't care if Indy-nerds scrutinized it so closely! It's Barnett. Accept it.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:28 PM   #106
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Bravo, Stoo, Bravo!
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:56 PM   #107
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Once again: We are talking about the movies! You can't read the the adress and you can't read what's on the sign. BUT: You can see a Boy with a Shirt with large "M" in the Classroom of "Last Crusade"! The same "M" for "Marshall College"...

Once again: Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, Robert Watts etc. always never say that there are two colleges. They always said we return to a location from Raiders etc. Or abot "Skull" they say "He is still teaching at Marshall" if there was a switch they must say "He is back at the Marshall College after his time at the Barnett College"...

So... please show me Interviews with Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, Robert Watts etc. confirming the switch between an Marshall... Barnett... and *LOL* back to Marshall...

Fact is: The switch is expandend Universe BS. From the point of Steven Spielberg, the director, why should Indy AND Marcus switch from from one College to another and... back.. ?

Can't wait to read this interviews...

By the way: The name was never mentioned in "Raiders". Why do you think it's the "Marshall College" in Raiders???
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:15 PM   #108
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I dunno man, that making of book is 400 giant pages long and has names of obscure characters from unused scripts, you'd think Indy changing schools and back again would come up somewhere in there.
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:48 AM   #109
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1) There is a DVD chapter named "Barnett College".

It's NOT in the movie!


2) SEVERAL students have a Barnett emblem on their notebooks ONSCREEN.

Very-very-very hard to see... but there is a guy with an large "M" for Marshall College on his shirt. The same "M" is used in "Skull"...

3) The parcel paper prop has the Barnett College in Fairfield, NY address.

You can't see this in the movie!


4) The cars in the film (including Indy's) have 1938 New York license plates.
Do tell, does the sedan look like it has a '38 NY plate or a '38 Connecticut plate?

And???


Can't wait to read this interviews with Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, Robert Watts etc. confirming the switch between an Marshall... Barnett... and *LOL* back to Marshall...
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:56 AM   #110
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And at this point I hope, everyone stops arguing with Sankara, as it really is quite pointless. We could wheel in George and he say it was Barnett or not, or we could uncover a mythical Indiana Jones and the switch the Barnett, filmed in the years between Doom and Crusade, but Sankara would still not be convinced.

Surely the director approved props and giant signs over doors in Crusade...

no wait, I'm doing it again, its impossible to convince Sankara with argument, evidence even. Proof even. So I really should stop..
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:25 AM   #111
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Yeah, I pretty much give up as well after reading that latest post. I just hope Sankara understands the difference between conceding an argument, and giving up out of sheer frustration.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:49 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankara
Once again: We are talking about the movies! You can't read the the adress and you can't read what's on the sign. BUT: You can see a Boy with a Shirt with large "M" in the Classroom of "Last Crusade"! The same "M" for "Marshall College"...
You're whacked! You can read the sign. On my kick-ass, flat screen TV I can so it's undboutedly legible on a giant, 70mm projection.
If you want talk about the movies then talk about the movies. Y'know, what is on celluloid and not in your imagination. We can see
the "M" but we cannot see/read "arshall".

If you want to play make-believe, then maybe the "M" stands for "moron" or...maybe...

The guy was an avid Montreal Maroons fan! 2 time Stanley Cup champs who played in the NHL from 1924-1938.
Fairfield is halfway between Montreal & New York so he was probably from upstate and had an unshakeable
allegiance to the team. The Maroons last won the cup in '35. He was most likely still rooting for them in their
final season and wore his away/visiting team-colour sweater to show the NY fans.

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Old 09-11-2008, 10:52 AM   #113
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Well, I'm still waiting for the interviews with Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, Robert Watts etc. confirming the switching between colleges...


By the way: It is obviously that Brody is working at the same college and that he is some kind of "Boss" to Indy! Oooh... look what I found:

Elliot described his character as "a rather eccentric professor and reluctant adventurer who is always saying the wrong thing at the right time. He's Indiana's friend and boss at the university."



Source: The Raider.net
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:57 AM   #114
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I believe they are the same colleges in the movie. Barnett college is in "Fate Of Atlantis" I do know that.
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:10 AM   #115
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@stoo
It's sooo funny that you "want" that there are two colleges in the Indy-Movies...

So, you know that these guy is a fan? Maybe the "M" is for his name... Marco! Yes, the name of the guy is Marco! Or maybe he is fan of Mercedes... or maybe he loves his Mum...

But you: I'm still waiting...
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:36 PM   #116
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Sankara, I do a lot of theatre. As a director, as a designer, as an actor. There are things going on in the heads of all three people that frankly don't match up unless they explicitly talk about it. The actors need not necessarily know some of the smaller aspects of, you know, prop design and set dressing. Also, the dialogue that Marcus speaks is clearly more concerned about a museum - he never mentions the university. Yes, he's there, but there's a lot of people who can show up at a college campus without working there.
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:38 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankara
Well, I'm still waiting for the interviews with Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, Robert Watts etc. confirming the switching between colleges...

Keep waiting. The fact that Barnett is not addressed in Indy4 is simply a goof on Spielberg and the writers' part. Nothing more. If asked about it in an interview, I wouldn't be surprised if Spielberg said, "Oh wow, I didn't even realize that!"

Since Spielberg shot the classroom scenes of Raiders and Crusade in the same set, I'd say it's probable he intended for it to be the same college, but the fact that the exterior of the school is vastly different (for whatever reason...I still remember something about it being unavailable, but that piece quoted earlier in this thread contradicts this) necessitated that they call the college something else - Barnett, which is referenced by name in the movie, hard to see or not. Its reappearance in Fate of Atlantis or in "Expanded Universe" work is not the only proof we have of its existence. Last Crusade and FOA confirm that Barnett is located in upstate New York, whereas Marshall is in Connecticut. They are two different schools in two different locations that both appear in the Indiana Jones movies. This is fact. The conjecture comes in when trying to explain why there are two different schools. Maybe when Spielberg addresses it in that hypothetical interview you keep praying for he'll reveal that he simply screwed up. My guess is that Spielberg forgot that they called it a different college in Last Crusade (maybe it's even possible he never knew it to begin with, if it was just something the prop department did to explain the fact that the exterior was different), and reprised Marshall upon rewatching Raiders.

I do think it's kinda funny that they just stole the Marshall College establishing shot from Raiders in Crystal Skull. (Excellent detective work, Stoo!) Maybe they would have done that for Crusade too if there wasn't an actual scene that required Indy to be at the school's exterior. By the time Indy4 came around, Spielberg and everyone else probably forgot about this obscure little fact, and assumed they were doing fans a favor by showing us the college from Raiders of the Lost Ark. The most obvious explanation is that this is a simple flub, unless you really believe Lucas and Koepp and Spielberg and whoever conspiratorially penned this huge convoluted explanation for why he switched back and forth that they never felt like sharing. You can believe whatever the hell you want - it doesn't change the fact that Indy works at Barnett College in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, and that sometimes an "M" is just an "M."
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:04 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Oh, man, you are absolutely right! It's the same shot digitally modified! Not only have the cars been changed
but 2 students walking across the grass have been removed. Good eye, Udarnovky! Check out the detail, folks.
In a full screen comparison, you can see the trees haven't changed in over 20 years...


I'd actually noticed this myself the day Crystal Skull opened, but wasn't 100% certain since I hadn't done an A/B comparison. I was almost certain, though.

Hasn't this come up somewhere here in the Raven before? I seem to remember seeing some reference to it somewhere, but...
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:38 PM   #119
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I mentioned this in another thread.
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:57 PM   #120
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Indy teaches at Marshall College in Raiders and Crystal Skull.

Check out The Complete Making of Indiana Jones...Frank Marshall was quite embarrased about it.

Possibly a Visiting Professor, Second Job, or Indy just following Marcus around, how do we know Indy is not teaching at Marshall College in The Last Crusade? Despite the multiple students with the Large M patch sewn on the front of their sweaters, on campus in Indy's class and his office, Barnett College is the name of Scene 5 in the Last Crusade DVD Chapter Credits.

Where else is the school mentioned in the varied Indiana Jones Media...?
Barnett College is a location in The Fate of Atlantis Video Game and it's Comic Adaptation. Indy's mailing address on the Grail Diary cannot be seen, however the Lost Journal of Indiana Jones shows the mailing wrapper and the address reads:

Prof Indiana Jones
Barnett College
Hamilton Hall
Grove Avenue
Fairfield, New York

Which only spurs more continuity questions like; did he really want to send it to the family's dead dog?
Most recently, Barnett College acts as the main hub in Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:05 PM   #121
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Rocket Surgeon,Check this out..

http://raven.theraider.net/showthrea...arnett+College

Stoo really does his homework on this.You'll also get a good laugh out of a certain artifact's persistance too!
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:58 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalinvader
Rocket Surgeon,Check this out..

http://raven.theraider.net/showthrea...arnett+College

Stoo really does his homework on this.You'll also get a good laugh out of a certain artifact's persistance too!

Holy Schnikes!

Good Lord!

Thanks for the heads up...I admire a man who stands up to the mob, but delusional is delusional!
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:11 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way of the dodo
I still don't get how all that freeze frame art department stuff can trump Spielberg filming in the same classroom?

Yeah, it looks like there was never the actual good answer given here. It was accessible; they'd worked with the people before, and they knew that it worked out well. That argument holds water whether the entire team was in agreement on whether it was the same or a different college.
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:31 PM   #124
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Right, the fact that same interior is used is explainable, but there's really no arguing against the fact that, story-wise, Indiana Jones teaches at a separate college in Last Crusade. References to Barnett are made in the film (nonverbal or not), the name appears in the movie's various adaptations, the college is brought back in Indiana Jones in the Fate of Atlantis (which takes place shortly after Last Crusade), and the placement of college's location on the US map in that game corroborates the address seen on the package in Last Crusade (namely, that it's located in upstate New York as opposed to Connecticut for Marshall). These are not coincidences - at some point during Last Crusade's development, a decision was made to move Indy's college of employment (clearly with more attention to detail than a mere name change) for whatever reason, and it became part of canon in the time line as recognized by multiple alternate universe (but no less official) material.

The real unanswered questions are why they invented this new college in the first place (Was it just to change the pace? Did they alter this aspect of the storyline during production for logistical reasons i.e. when the real-life Marshall exterior was unavailable for filming? Was there an actual decent story-related reason for Indy switching colleges that just didn't survive beyond the script?), and why Crystal Skull chooses to confuse matters by not addressing the situation at all. The answers to these questions would satisfy my curiosity, but I've got a feeling that they wouldn't turn out to be particularly impressive.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:31 PM   #125
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Perhaps they just got uncomfortable with the idea of having it named after Frank Marshall by LC; did they think it was too in-jokey? Dunno.
As a casual fan of Indy I certainly never even noticed it before I came to this forum: I'd heard it was Barnett in the comics but I thought they just got it wrong to be honest.
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