Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - initial impressions and casual discussion

Just saw it, and.....

I?m basically lost for words. I?m severely disappointed.

I know people get upset if some bags it, but I really feel like I?ve been kicked square in the nuts.

I?ve been waiting for this movie for as long as anyone and I have watched the other 3 movies more than I can count, but I think ill never watch this one ever again.

Sorry guys but I still can?t believe how much I disliked this movie.....

Steve

To tell you the truth, when I walked out of the theatre, I felt nothing. Nothing at all. I wasn't expecting that. I didn't know how to feel or what to think. When I realised that, I was disappointed. I knew that I should have a grin plastered across my face.

I think part of the reason it failed is because George and Steven did not truly want to make this movie. It was only the desire and even hunger for more Indy on the part of a great majority of the fans that caused this film to be made. George and Steven said repeatedly and firmly around the time of LC that LC was the last Indy movie. Fan demand swelled up for another one and we got this. The reason being is that in their hearts they knew that Indy was supposed to be done with LC. They made the film for the fans and for this reason it suffered. Rather than be something they wanted to see (Like Raiders was) it became a clash (probably between Lucas and Spielberg) over what Lucas wanted to see and what Steven felt the fans wanted to see. I don't think their hearts were in really in it, they just did it to appease the fans, even though they deep down felt Indy was over in LC.

Even LC was made in some ways for themselves. While yes, it was partly as an ''apology' for ToD, it was also because (I believe) Spielberg and Lucas not only really enjoyed Indy but also probably felt there could be more to tell with Indy. Lucas fashioned the Holy Grail story because it appealed to him; Spielberg loved and wanted to see the father-son subtext and the idea of discovering one's own self because he had a difficult relationship with his father and also because he and George were entering middle age. LC was the last necessary film, and it was also the last Indy that I believe their hearts were really in. They rode off into the sunset. The end.

KOTCS is kind of like an add on, an epilogue, if you will. It wasn't necessary (Indy's story didn't have to wrapped up all nice and neat; what happend from 1938 (until 1992 if you like the YIJC) could've been the dreams of fans for years. Playing "What if?" can sometimes be more fun than "What is", in my opinion. This film doesn't even leave any room for fans to wonder what he did between 38 and '57. It would've been much more fun, imo, to allow ourselves to wonder:

What happend to Dr. Jones?
Where did Shorty end up?
Did Indy ever have any children? What were they like?
What did Indy do during the '40s? The '50s?
Did he ever meet Marion again?
What other adventures did he have?

Each and every fan could've been happy, and made his own ideas up about what happend, no division, no arguments. Each fan could've ended the story in his mind, his own way.

But this was done to please the fans who were almost desperate for more Indy. It wasn't needed, and is an epilogue; the end after ''the end''. It's like reading the end of Robin Hood, where he goes off to fight with King Richard in the Crusades (if you stop here, you can allow yourself to wonder what happend to him, what adventures he had etc) and then reading the Epilogue and learning of his return to Sherwood Forest and his death. Sometimes dreaming can be much more enjoyable than reality.

>>and we got this<<
You mean an awesome, fun, exciting, imaginative movie?
I'd say 'we' made out fine.

Raiders112390 said:

Playing "What if?" can sometimes be more fun than "What is", in my opinion. This film doesn't even leave any room for fans to wonder what he did between 38 and '57. It would've been much more fun, imo, to allow ourselves to wonder:

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Well, I unabashedly love this movie. I view it like a great big pulp comicbook from the 1950s. But I think you have a point here, in that one of the greatest things about Indy 4 has always been it's "what if?" factor.

The movie has pretty much thrived on rumors and speculation for at least 15 years. It essentially grew in myth as the internet grew in popularity. I've thoroughly enjoyed poring over tidbits of information about the film- and at several points, convincing myself that it was close to becoming reality. So there was definitely a sense of downtime after seeing it, and I'm just glad that the filmmakers are open to an Indy 5.

However, I disagree about Lucas and Spielberg not wanting to make the film. I know Spielberg may have been reluctant, but I think everyone involved probably had a great time making this thing. Hot rods and Tarzan movies and flying saucers? I'm sure they both loved every minute of this stuff. Lucas may have summed it up best when he told interviewers: "It's just a fun movie. I enjoy watching it."

My thoughts exactly.

I saw it again tonight. It's still in the biggest theater in Phoenix despite all of the newer releases and surprisingly it was sold out tonight. The crowd was a little older this time, no teens, mostly 35+. They all laughed and had a good time.

This was my 3rd time and it keeps getting better. The story is very solid. It's funny, has good action and I love the sets. I think I'm gonna stop coming here because the haters **** me off and it's clear to me that people who don't live in their basements seem to enjoy it. I JUST LOVE THIS FILM. Can't wait for the DVD!

I think the thing that did in this movie the most was its need to describe the fill in years between movies. Raiders, ToD, and LC all were, in a way, their own movie because nothing in the plot relied on indy's actions in the past. Yes I know him and marion had a thing and there was the father son relationship, but those had little to do with what Indy was doing in those adventures.

What I'm talking about in KotCS is Indy's apparent war record and history. I think because they had to too come up with extravagant stories to give Indy and Mac a history, as well as connect Indy to the aliens it took away from the adventure that we were supposed to be witnessing. This type of fault especially came into play when, in about five minutes, Indy and Marion had to tell the audience why they had a falling out, how each of their personal lives progressed, and how they felt about each other.

Overall what I'm saying is that I think KotCS, 20 years later, relied too heavily on telling what happened during those 20 years, rather than describing the adventure Indy was supposed to be on in the movie.

Grave Robber said:

I think the thing that did in this movie the most was its need to describe the fill in years between movies.

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Interesting take. I personally enjoyed the little hints at a backstory- mainly because it's something I found lacking in other recent "comeback" films.

In "Live Free or Die Hard", John McClane is basically asked if he's been involved in gunplay before, and he simply says, "Not for a long time." And in "Rambo", it's pretty much just implied that Rambo has spent 20 years in Thailand. Yet at the end of "Rambo III", he was depicted as being pretty well adjusted. He even cracked a joke!

So, I liked the little hints that Indy was in WWII and helping out at Roswell. The latter also makes a nice in-joke for fans that read the "Saucermen From Mars" script. The exchange with Marion did seem like a lot of exposition to try and fit in, but I appreciated that Indy and Marion had some additional history after Raiders.

We're basically just talking about a very small amount of filling in, and nowhere near the full 19 years that has elapsed. I thought it would've been a bigger mistake for them to just say he'd been teaching steadily the entire time (ala "Rambo").

I think what it does for me is that I, as a viewer, have to take all this information and history and accept it in order to enjoy the film without ever seeing it happen. I mean I think it would be one thing to be little things as you said (the marion-indy tie in raiders was minute)...but the history they went over was quite vast: double agenting, alien dig-ups, an apparent wedding that almost took place, a large war record with numerous missions, valor, and many awards and medals one. All of these are pretty major events that shaped Indy's life. I mean its like when Mac says "Remember Berlin?" as a viewer I would rather have seen what happened in Berlin rather than just hear about it. That way I could understand how such an event ties into whats going on.

In LC, for instance, we were given a visual of Indy's childhood and relationship with his father so that when the subject came up again and had to do with how Indy was living his life, we as the audience already had a visual and good idea as to why Indy felt the way he did.

I've seen the movie three times now, and I'm gonna wait for the Blu-Ray set to watch them all again. Spielberg/Lucas/Ford make 85.5 cents per dollar after it makes $400 million(which is has), not to mention all the money it'll make by the end of its haul(at least 800 million), plus DVD sales and TV appearances.

I can definitely see them making an Indy 5, especially after making so much money on this one.

i hope they make a number 5, but i really hope its like raiders and last crusade.

Its been 24 hours since i watched part 4,and i still cant beleive what they done to indi. aliens and flying saucers??? what were they thinking!!!!

steve (still pissed :| )

Grave Robber said:

I mean its like when Mac says "Remember Berlin?" as a viewer I would rather have seen what happened in Berlin rather than just hear about it.

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I know what you mean, and have quite a few friends that are the same way. I guess I've just always been the opposite as a viewer. For example, I always thought the brief allusion to "clone wars" in A New Hope was far more interesting that what was ultimately depicted onscreen in Episodes II and III.

The brief mention triggered all kinds of things in my imagination which the prequels failed to surpass. In a way, I guess it goes back to what the other poster was saying about "what if?"

James said:

I know what you mean, and have quite a few friends that are the same way. I guess I've just always been the opposite as a viewer. For example, I always thought the brief allusion to "clone wars" in A New Hope was far more interesting that what was ultimately depicted onscreen in Episodes II and III.

The brief mention triggered all kinds of things in my imagination which the prequels failed to surpass. In a way, I guess it goes back to what the other poster was saying about "what if?"

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I agree with you, allusions are fine to me. Why show it? In SW when Obi-Wan tells Luke about the clone wars and Vader killing his father and all that we basically knew everything we needed to. No other sequel or prequel needed to be made. I like them all, even the PT but I remember being a kid and thinking about all of it.

Plus, in Raiders Indy and Marion's prior relationship was alluded to as were Indy's knowledge of the headpiece and Abner Ravenwood. Same is true with how Short Round end up with Indy. These stories are always just small chapter in the life of Indy. We don't have to know everything.

Grave Robber said:

What I'm talking about in KotCS is Indy's apparent war record and history. I think because they had to too come up with extravagant stories to give Indy and Mac a history, as well as connect Indy to the aliens it took away from the adventure that we were supposed to be witnessing. This type of fault especially came into play when, in about five minutes, Indy and Marion had to tell the audience why they had a falling out, how each of their personal lives progressed, and how they felt about each other.

Overall what I'm saying is that I think KotCS, 20 years later, relied too heavily on telling what happened during those 20 years, rather than describing the adventure Indy was supposed to be on in the movie.

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Whilst that is a valid argument, I think you are being a little unfair. After all, I think there was much more "history" implied in Raiders of the Lost Ark e.g. Indy?s history with Marion, his relationship with Abner Ravenwood, his relationship with Beloq etc. etc.

So again, whilst I don?t doubt you have problems with the movie, I think KOTCS is very much based on the template set out by Raiders.

Darth Vile said:

So again, whilst I don’t doubt you have problems with the movie, I think KOTCS is very much based on the template set out by Raiders.

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That's one of the funniest things you've said so far. Thanks for the laugh!

Just went to see KotCS the second time, this time with my father. I was pretty curious how my father would react to the movie, because on the one hand he likes the character of Indy (he's not a what I would call a fan though) and he also likes American 50s culture a lot (I was almost certain he'd like Mutt), on the other hand he's very critical of plot holes and scientific implausibilities. I can't forget his incredulous stare when Indy survived the nuclear blast in the fridge. Fortunately, he decided to take it as a "duck and cover" spoof. He didn't regard some of the later parts of the action as kindly, though. In the end, it was a tie I guess. He enjoyed the characters, banter and settings a lot, but he wasn't so fond of the plot and over-the-top action.

Well, I can't blame him. These important aspects could have been a lot better, there's no doubt about that. But on the other hand, I realized that I like this movie a lot. Like in every Indy movie, there are some little gems of scenes that seperate it from the vast majority of other action and adventure movies. On the top of my head, here are a few that I recall:

- The whole opening scene establishes the 50s mood perfectly. And just look closely at the glances that the Soviets exchange.
- The scene where Indy and Mutt are walking through the streets in Peru, is beautifully shot, acted and even - yes, I dare say it - well written.
- The talk between Indy and Stanforth in his home is great. Most of the time, the movie knows when humor would destroy a scene. This is a very sad and serious scene and it gives us an impression where Indy now stands in his life.
- I still think the quicksand scene is one of the funniest scenes in all of the Indy movies.
- The scene in the diner where Mutt and Indy have their first talk. It elegantly introduces the skull and its historical background (for a moment even in the of the diner the scene has an almost mysterious air), gives a first hint at the family thread and establishes the relationship between the two men.

All in all, I feel that this movie is nowhere near as shallow as some make it out to be. It sure has its ridiculous parts, but there is also a lot to be enjoyed about it.

linus said:

- The scene where Indy and Mutt are walking through the streets in Peru, is beautifully shot, acted and even - yes, I dare say it - well written.
- The talk between Indy and Stanforth in his home is great. Most of the time, the movie knows when humor would destroy a scene. This is a very sad and serious scene and it gives us an impression where Indy now stands in his life.
- The scene in the diner where Mutt and Indy have their first talk. It elegantly introduces the skull and its historical background (for a moment even in the of the diner the scene has an almost mysterious air), gives a first hint at the family thread and establishes the relationship between the two men.

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Those are three of my favorites as well. You're right about the tone in the Stanforth scene. When he tells Indy the line about life taking things away, you almost expect Indy to comment on it. Instead, Indy just gives that sad, knowing smile which perfectly tells us everything.

I also really love the diner scene, and think it's probably Shia's best moment. They deliver a lot of information, while still managing to include some clever visual gags. Mutt's impetuousness is perfectly contrasted with Indy's world-weariness: "It's just a story, kid."

Silentrascal said:

That's one of the funniest things you've said so far. Thanks for the laugh!

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It's a pleasure...

I just got back from seeing the film a second time. I went with my parents, interested in seeing their reactions. My dad has always been an Indy fan, and saw the first three in theaters when he was growing up. My mom on the other hand, although she has seen the first three films, has never cared for the them, and has always regarded them as "silly" (I even had a hard time getting her to watch any of Young Indy, although when I finally did, with "Oganaga, The Giver and Taker of Life" got a getting reaction from her). They are both very critical and cynical people, so (given the general reactions that a lot of people their ages seem to have had to the film), I was pleasantly surprised to see that they enjoyed the film. Sure they cringed a few times, but they managed to look past the over-the-top elements and enjoy themselves. There were lots of chuckles and smiles.

Although I was surprised and all, I wasn't as surprised that my dad liked the film, since he's a big alien/ancient astronaut/government conspiracy buff. I looked over and saw him nodding his head in agreement at some of the extraterrestrial points brought up in the last third of the film. And my mom enjoyed the humor, and was happy to see that Harrison Ford and Karen Allen were on screen, not afraid at their age to play these characters again. She told me she enjoyed the film more than the first three (which, after all of the critical backlash, is kind of weird to hear someone say).

Myself, I think I enjoyed it a bit more this second time. Although I found it so-so on my first viewing, this time I was able to let go of my critical and fan eye. It finally clicked for me what the intent was: to entertain, and to make people smile and laugh and have a good old time. In the theater I was in, there were a few sarcastic remarks, but there seemed to be an overall feeling of giddy joy among everyone.

reading the above posts and thinking back to the movie, id have to say the scene in the diner was great. There are other great scene's but the I just cant get over the ufo/alien story, its just too big to ignore.

I suppose ill have to watch it again and see what happens.

steve