Why are people so hard on Indy IV?

Billy Ray said:
image_zpse0167835.jpg

Precisely E for Effort Stoop.
 
Túrin Turambar said:
It's called the English language Tex, try looking it up in a dicknitary.:)

Truth is nobody gets a hard on over Crystal Skull do they? So Lets hope Indy 5 brings Back the original magic hey?? Harry looks fantastic since his latest accident, I even like his new s car. So Get the "eye" patch on and get that whip cracking Harry, your 73 now. No time to waste !!_!!
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Túrin Turambar said:
I suppose the monkey chase was all done with real monkeys swinging through the Amazonian jungle to hey?? And mutt was so good he just joined in for fun too.? Do I kake my self "cleaR"??
Not sure watt you're point is with that reply mate but go Watch the making of docs on the dvd and blu-RaY and reed the making of book yule find out the truth for you're Self you wont see any vehicals being filmed in a studio dont no why you cant beleave it when the proof is write their at your'e finGer tips…??

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Many shots in the jungle chase don't look realistic because the outdoor DIRT ROAD was digitally covered up with leaves, foliage, etc. and this gives the impression that whatever is underneath the wheels is not REAL GROUND. (This unfortunate result is most likely the cause of the "blue/green screen studio" gripes.)

Dr. Gonzo said:
Why people are so hard on Indy IV?
Perhaps it's because some folks are flippin' clueless?:confused:
 
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mrman7

New member
No way

Definitely watched the special features but haven't read the book. I'm sure at some point they filmed some shots in the jungle but there is no possible way that 95% of that scene is shot practically. No way. I can spot the difference between enhanced backgrounds and chromakey.

I wouldn't "making of" materials issued by Lucasfilm at face value. Lucas' recounting of how his films are made are specious at best. Remember him talking about how he had the Star Wars saga all planned out in his head? Remember him on the Episode I dvd sitting down to write the screenplay and saying "now all I need is an idea?"


Stoo said:
'Tis absolutely true, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it to you!;)

(What I was wrong about, however, was the use of green screens instead of blue??...because, "Crystal Skull", did indeed use quite a lot of BLUE!)

Mr.Man7, have you checked out the book, "The Complete Making of Indiana Jones", or the bonus features on the "Skull" DVD & Blu-ray? You can see the crew rehearsing & filming several of the chase sequences OUTDOORS and you can read about how difficult it was to choreograph the fights because of multiple vehicles?AND shooting everything on a bumpy road! Even Shia talks about how hard it was to stand astride two cars moving through the jungle. I also have a great "POST" magazine interview with effects supervisor, Pablo Helman, which confirms all of this.

Loads of shots were digitally beefed up to make the jungle look more crowded so maybe the addition of those extra trees & bushes in the foreground is what you mean?:confused: Hope you aren't confusing CG enhancements with chromatic key shots.

If necessary, I could count the actual time (in seconds) of what was filmed in a real jungle and what wasn't. The totals will definitely show that only a tiny percentage used a chroma backdrop for the main plates. (My offhand, educated guess puts it at about 5% or less).

Anyway, the point is that the actors & stunt people in the jungle chase scene were NOT "all in a studio"!:gun:
 

DARTH ZOIDBERG

Well-known member
I think it comes down to weather you like Ancient Alien Stuff If you do you love KOTCS If you don't you probably hate it....

I just bought KOTCS on Blu-ray and it looks fantastic on my 42 Inch LG HD TV !!!!!!!! I forgot how good the film really is !!! I also just bought Raiders on Blu-ray from Wallmart KOTCS I bought at FYE and I just placed an order on Amazon for Temple Of Doom and Last Crusade the reason I did not want the big box set is because I dont like the card board packaging it looks great but it skips the discs. as you can probably tell from my love of KOTCS I love all that Ancient Alien stuff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
 

Sea Monarch

New member
TheLastCrusader said:
People are hard on Indy IV because

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SAYS YOU!!! ;)

All things considered, despite some flaws (which most movies have), Kingdom is a rollicking, imaginitive and exciting adventure, that has a chemistry and creative synergy that is so sorely lacking in many of today's blockbusters, and is a welcome thrill ride and change from the same old retreads Hollywood usually spews out!

I observed and noticed that every time I saw KOTC in theaters (about 7 times), the majority of audiences were thrilled, laughing and having a great time. When I asked most ordinary people what they thought afterwards at the theater as well as in other settings, most people said they loved it! I also remember upon its initial release, the number of positive reviews outweighed the negative reviews for the most part. Heck, I even took my Grandma to see it one night, and she loved it! And she's not one that is necessarily easily impressed, when it comes to movies. But she's always been pretty cool, case in point she took me to the original Batman in '89 when I was younger and She loved it as much as I did!

Then a number of armchair critics, some of the nerd culture, pseudo fans, and some of the die-hard fans that were dissapointed (usually an inevitability), started posting, blogging, ranting and nitpicking ad-nauseum, and seemed to shape the perceived view of the movie. :rolleyes:

I've made an observation that that may not be true 100% of the time, but I've noticed that often with certain properties or franchises with a devoted fanbase, when a new movie that's either a continuation of a saga or a beloved property like a book translated to screen, the un-initiated average movie goers often times like it, and many of the die-hard fans also enjoy it, but the ones I witness that tend to whine and complain about it the most are the Johnny come lately/wanna be fans that either have something to prove or fancy themselves an expert! It's actually hilarious to observe!! :D

Case in point, when Jackson's The Lord Of The Rings movies were released, people relatively new to the stories (like myself) and many die-hard Tolkien fans I talked to who either knew the books by heart or had read them several times, were overall very pleased and satisfied with the end result, even despite compromises that were made, minor or otherwise.
While the ones I heard complain the most (if at all), were people such as one of my friends, who had recently started and finished reading the Fellowship and subsequent books a few weeks before catching each movie in the theater, and was ranting about what he didn't like or would have done better, while the faithful Tolkenites were very happy!(y) My buddy seemed intent on proving what a true expert/fan he was! :rolleyes:


Listen, I know there were a number of people who were legitimately bummed, dissapointed or annoyed with either, aspects of the film and/or the film itself, but I also noticed that many people seemed to be made to feel un-cool, schmaltzy, or stupid if they enjoyed any of the proceedings in KOTCS, and many also had their opinions shaped negatively towards the movie before they even had the opp to see it and decide for themselves.

A telling story, is the time when I ran across a friend of mine that worked at the movie theater while KOTCS was playing. We got to talking about Kingdom and I asked him what he thought of it. He proceeded to tell me something along the lines of,
"It sucked". Then, while talking about upcoming plans in the week, he mentioned he was gonna go watch KOTCS! AGAIN, Lol!! He admitted it was gonna be his third or fourth time!! :confused: :D To which, I said to him, "I thought you hated it"?! He sheepishly smiled, then hemmed and hawed. :rolleyes:

I know taste is subjective, but based on the overwhelmingly positive audience response/reception I observed over the several different times of watching KOTCS in theaters (spread out from its premiere all the way through late summer), and the opinions expressed to me by many ordinary movie-goers that talked to me about the film both at the theater and in other everyday settings, as well as several mostly positive early reviews upon its release, I suspect KOTCS is (or at least originally was) hated by the Loud minority, while, in actuality being a film that (mostly) thrilled, pleased and/or entertained a majority of people at the Box office, and later at home! (y)


I'm sure that hatred for it grew and spread to several others over time, but I'm also positive that fandom for it has also grown and spread to many over time. And I maintain now, as I did then, that it is destined to be viewed as a Great Classic Action Film someday, just as Temple of Doom has become to more people with the passing of time, despite its original tepid, disenfranchised, and divided audience response. That movie was also not liked by many people. And while I enjoyed TOD, I find it to also, be flawed and certain aspects of it still bug me (no pun intended)! Though I still like TOD I tend to rank KOTCS above it.

Time will tell, and is telling! Ultimately, I believe KOTCS is criminally underrated by many, but I also suspect it's appreciated/enjoyed by many more, and certainly by more people than we hear from. :)
 
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Sea Monarch

New member
TheLastCrusader said:
Yea well KOTCS sounds a lot like "kots", which means "vomit" where I live.

Beat that, sucka.(y)

I only missed once! Death by Stereo!! :gun:

I'm Gonna Get You Sucka! Haha!
And the wonderful chocolate you Oompa Loompa's export!! ;) (y)
 

DARTH ZOIDBERG

Well-known member
I always liked KOTCS my only beef might have been Mutt swinging in the trees with monkeys it was just not necessary. but other then that I liked it and currently it is tied with TOD and since I got KOTCS on Blu-ray the movie looks better then ever on my 42 Inch LG HD TV and almost ten years later the movie really isn't that bad I quite like it!!!!!!
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
I couldn't believe it...but this hasn't been posted here

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Mickiana

Well-known member
Pale Horse said:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bz3dKqTjZO4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Those 'Everything Wrong With...." clips really make me dislike the movie in question. The concentration of all the bad points is disturbing. CS had many bad points.
 

Udvarnoky

Well-known member
I'm not watching that video. I don't need some snarky guy on the internet explaining to me what was wrong with Crystal Skull for 15 minutes.

What was wrong was perfectly evident to everyone would watched the movie. It is a bizarrely lethargic film with lazy writing and a lack of considered ideas. I can't think of a movie more disinterested with itself. Throwing out all these promising concepts that it refused to develop - Spalko's psychic powers, the FBI subplot that was utterly abandoned after Act I, the side characters it didn't know what to do with.

It lacked any of the decent one-liners or memorable cliff hangers that all the previous movies had. The much-maligned Doomtown sequence is the only thing in the damn movie that even resembles a classic Indy setup. We're given clumsy swathes of exposition that were only necessary because of the goofily unwieldy plot points (somehow both undercooked and overcooked at the same time) that could have easily been streamlined. The whole hand-waving business with Oxley's letter, the pointless shrouding of Marion's identity, and the inconsequential mystery of the conquistadors were just set dressing, elements that served to take up running time but didn't add up to a damned thing.

The movie was wall-to-wall with missed opportunities that came to be downright distracting - Indy never once trying to outwit his captors and instead assisting them at every opportunity and even complaining upon rescue, the jungle cutter that was immediately destroyed, the natives that served as nothing but a gag, the obelisk puzzle that Indy isn't allowed to solve. It feels like a first draft that they somehow took 19 years to write.

There was no menace or stakes, the material de-fanged to the point where Indy never once fires his gun. At one point the lead villain allows Indy, Marion and Mutt to play out their Jerry Springer routine at the jungle camp, before finally cocking a gun behind Marion's head. In response, Indy and Marion keep right on quipping. If the characters don't see the villains as a threat, why should the audience? It's no wonder Marion doesn't care, considering she seems fully aware that she's in a movie, like when she drives gleefully off the cliff onto the tree, confident that she will survive.

The movie has a strange, cheap look to it, with Kaminski imposing this glow-y, diffusive style that doesn't just make it seem out of place with the other movies, but at times like it's set on a different planet. This boggling creative choice is aggravated by the stagebound nature of the production. The previous movies were shot in striking locations like Tunisia, Skri Lanka, and Petra. Crystal Skull was filmed in Los Angeles and...the surrounding area. They did not expose one frame of film outside of the U.S. during principal photography. And why bother physically filming the jungle chase in Hawaii if the whole thing is going to be digitally molested to the point where it all looks green-screened anyway?

The movie was even outright incompetent at times. The demise of Mac is the most embarrassing bit of staging I've ever seen in a Steven Spielberg film.

There were no moments of gravity, and when they were attempted the movie had to invoke the previous films, like when they reprised the Grail Theme during Indy's horrible "Knowledge was their treasure" wrap-up at the end without having earned that right at all. That scene is perfectly indicative of how the movie never stands on its own two feet, and relies entirely on our goodwill for the previous movies to get by.

And that's what makes Crystal Skull so objectionable, at the end of the day. It merely gets by, and not because its reach extended its grasp, but because that appears to have been the height of its ambition. It doesn't even have the decency to be bad in a memorable way. It's just a dull, soulless, inert movie. At the time I remember there being a contingent of people chiding others for their bloated expectations, but what was so unreasonable about expecting something even along the lines of the previous movies? No one was anticipating brilliance, just for the Beards to be able to come with something more than mediocrity.
 

Toht's Arm

Active member
"It feels like a first draft that they somehow took 19 years to write."

That's a great way to sum it up. And I say that even though I actually LIKE the movie, too!

To put it a slightly different way - it feels like a hodgepodge of drafts by different writers. Which it is, really, I guess. Hence we have scenes that seem to serve no purpose, or have characters entering a scene with one motivation, leaving with a distinctly different motivation, but no explanation for why.
 
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