WillKill4Love

WillKill4Food

New member
"By telling stories, you objectify your own experience. You separate it from yourself. You pin down certain truths..."
-Tim O'Brien, The Things They Carried
That is a quote about the Vietnam War, of course, as any of you who have read any of O'Brien's work know. If you have never read any of his work, The Things They Carried is a book I'd recommend to anyone.

Anyway, that's a statement that really is true for me. Writing and talking about what's happening around me is the best way for me to analyze what's happening in my life.

And that's why I'm here. I'm afraid to talk to anyone who knows her, and all of my friends know her. And even if none of you actually read this, I know it has helped me to write it out.



WARNING: Below you'll find sentimental drama of a sort.



There's a girl I know. She's a friend. She's so...words can't describe her. She's intelligent, witty, gorgeous. But she's just a friend.

A few weeks ago, I was talking to a guy that I know. I don't know how it came up in conversation, but he suggested that I ask her out. I rejected the idea at first. She's just a friend, I told him.

But that was an artificial reason, an excuse to hide the real reason I hadn't considered asking her out.

First off, she was dating a guy at the time. Second, I'm afraid that she's "out of my league." Third, I don't want to ruin a friendship.

Ever since that day when he said that, I've thought about her almost constantly. I can't get her out of my head. I see her, and I'm happiest when I'm talking to her.

We're in a political debate club together at school. I even took her side (which I don't agree with) on a debate that we're going to be preparing together just so that I could spend more time with her.

And I think I really like her. I want to date her, to become more than just friends.

Well, I just found out tonight, thanks to Facebook, that they broke up. I saw the relationship status thing changed to "Single," and she wrote something about how she just wanted to forget him.

And I was happy. Happy. Actually happy that she had broken up with a guy.

Is it selfishness? Human nature? Or are they one and the same?

Isn't it wrong for me to rejoice inside when I find out that she's just broken up with him? Obviously, she's going to be broken-hearted. And yet I was actually happy that she broke up.

If I really like her, if she really is a friend, then it shouldn't please me to know that they broke up. I am really upset with myself for being happy about it, even though it was only momentary. I can't help feeling guilty.

And even still, I don't know what to do or what to say.

If you have actually gotten this far, then thanks. And I'd appreciate your opinion.
 
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Gear

New member
Ahhhhhh... Teen years.


Well, aside from any other commentary I'd make (which isn't very important to this conversation right now) there's a question I have to ask, and I don't mean to make you feel uncomfortable--in fact, take comfort in knowing everyone (not just men) feels this:

WillKill4Food said:
But that was an artificial reason, an excuse to hide the real reason I hadn't considered asking her out.

First off, she was dating a guy at the time. Second, I'm afraid that she's "out of my league." Third, I don't want to ruin a friendship.

Is there more to it? Are you frightened of rejection? Are you hesitant to step out of your comfort zone?

Again, I am not out to make you uncomfortable and, as I already said, everyone faces these challenges. Although that may have been what you meant by "I'm afraid that she's "out of my league.", and if so, apologies for misunderstanding.


WillKill4Food said:
And I was happy. Happy. Actually happy that she had broken up with a guy.

Is it selfishness? Human nature? Or are they one and the same?

Are you a bad person? No, and nor is she "brokenhearted"--It was a high school boy friend...

At this age I doubt you need worry.

It's hard to take one's own advice but easy to give it, even so I'd suggest going for it. The idea that you would appear stupid in front of others by stepping out may seem intimidating, but when you step back and look at it you say "Why not?", then of course stepping back into it and saying the same is hard.

Maybe I'm not wise enough to know the right answers, but, well, that's the news from Anaheim Station.
 

AlivePoet

New member
Agree with most of what gear said. Having exited a relationship recently, I have a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, so I don't think I'll provide you with much advice. What I will offer is this: don't catch her on the rebound! Rarely is it profitable to do so.

Also, remember that you have your whole life ahead of you.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
gear guardian said:
Are you frightened of rejection?
The part about ruining a friendship was tied in to this. I don't want to make things awkward with her.

gear guardian said:
No, and nor is she "brokenhearted"--It was a high school boy friend...
At this age I doubt you need worry.
Well, yes, but that is still a concern of mine.

gear guardian said:
The idea that you would appear stupid in front of others by stepping out may seem intimidating, but when you step back and look at it you say "Why not?", then of course stepping back into it and saying the same is hard.
I'm not afraid of "appearing stupid," actually, considering that one of my friends suggested it and really made me start thinking about her and my relationship with her since we met.

AlivePoet said:
What I will offer is this: don't catch her on the rebound! Rarely is it profitable to do so.
Well, naturally. I certainly didn't consider asking her out right now immediately. I was just thinking about the next few weeks.

Thanks to the both of you, though.

gear guardian said:
Well, aside from any other commentary I'd make (which isn't very important to this conversation right now)
Just curious, what other commentary would you make?
 

Gear

New member
WillKill4Food said:
The part about ruining a friendship was tied in to this. I don't want to make things awkward with her.

Well, every situation is different, however, I met a girl a couple years ago and we became friends, but it was somewhat an awkward relationship on account of I new she had a thing for me and I didn't for her--althoughhhh we ended up making out together in a 'in the moment-whatever' sort of fashion. I was afraid our friendship would suffer but she's now one of my close-nit best friends. And that's not just fluffy little foo-foo talk there.


WillKill4Food said:
Well, yes, but that is still a concern of mine.

Take into account other's emotions, but don't feel bad simply because you feel obliged to.


WillKill4Food said:
I'm not afraid of "appearing stupid," actually, considering that one of my friends suggested it and really made me start thinking about her and my relationship with her since we met.

What I was getting at was a lot of times people seem to be frightened of showing emotion and thus feel vulnerable.


WillKill4Food said:
Just curious, what other commentary would you make?

Oh, just rants and such about teenagisms.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
I know this dilemma. You're afraid that if you try to ascend the step, you either conquer it, or then you fall flat on the ground never to able to get up again. It's a gamble, double or nothing.

My advice: Don't take it up. Yes. Don't.

And why? Because she's recently broken up. A girl that's willing to throw herself into a new relationship shortly after ending another one is actually a girl you may NOT want to date. People (and I'm talking about both sexes now in order to save myself from being stamped sexist) who are quick to hook up are also equally quick to break up. I know this from experience.

Sure, you might feel that if you don't act fast enough such a prime piece of meat is going to get picked up by someone else. Well, might be. But if you witness such a thing happening, draw comfort from the fact that whoever is the fellow who might feel a like winner at the moment probably won't feel so for too long.

However, I do know that doing nothing is kind of difficult too and definitely not the piece of advice you want to hear. And you shouldn't. Keep hanging around with her, but... be yourself. This means don't behave in a way that's unnatural for you in order to be close to her. Especially if there's a chance that she knows that you wouldn't normally. If you're always there when there's an opening, there's a chance she might find it uneasy and you're actually hurting your chances.

Finding the right distance and maintaining it might be difficult if you have affection for her, and are dying to know if she's got some for you too. She might or might not. Here's the thing. In either case, instead of miring into the unknown, why don't we grow some? Sure, there's already the chance that she's got that already, but hey, more doesn't hurt your chances a bit.

So, keep on doing whatever you do with her when you're having a good time. Let her enjoy your company without her having to worry if you're enjoying hers. You don't have to be afraid of ruining your friendship by displaying extra feelings, but at the same time you're opening up chances for her to express hers, if there are any developing.

Nihilistically, there are three levels of friendship a human male can have with a female of the same species. 1) A friend, 2) a friend with benefits, 3) a girlfriend. (1) is the basic level, (2) includes sex and other kind of intimate closeness and (3) includes feelings. But apart from those, the pasttimes two human beings can have on all levels are surprisingly identical... especially if both are single.

So, unless you have a pair of Sankara stones full of magical power and are simply dying to find the right hole for your Staff of Ra, you might as well keep it at the level you have now... because if you are meant to be, it'll happen eventually without either one of you having to worry about awkward situations.

This concludes my advice. If you feel it's not something that might apply in your case, no hard feelings. Because there're other ways to learn the very same things.

And that road is usually paved with numerous f**kups.
 

HovitosKing

Well-known member
I appreciate your willingness to put so much of yourself out there for others to read about, that in itself has to be tough. But this is a good place to do it, we're all friends here. You sound like an incredibly intelligent guy, so I know you'll eventually find your way. However, I spent years (too many of them) passing up opportunities because I had the same concerns you have. Trust me, later in life this will leave you with haunting questions and slight regrets. My advice may sound unconventional, but it has always worked for me and I stand by it. Forget the boyfriend, he's not an issue (whether they're dating or not). If they're broken up, chances are it isn't permanent at this point (most people go back and forth a while before actually calling it quits). But that doesn't matter. You don't want to swoop in for the rebound anyway. Don't wait in the shadows for her to be single, and definitely don't waste away thinking and worrying about the consequences of telling her how you feel. We don't understand women well enough to predict how they'll react to us ;) . In fact, in my experience, pursuing a girl with a bf makes you look more of a badass in her eyes anyway, which is an attractive feature to a girl. Go ask her out, boyfriend or no. Don't spend a lot of time telling her you love her and always have, just take her out and give her the signs that you're interested (no heart-to-heart sappy stuff, which in my experience always comes across awkwardly and ends in ruin). Just my advice. Don't pass this up. Your friendship will always be there either way, but a friendship is never more important than chasing down the possibility of something more.
 
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muttjones

New member
Finn said:
So, unless you have a pair of Sankara stones full of magical power and are simply dying to find the right hole for your Staff of Ra, you might as well keep it at the level you have now.
Thank you sir you made my day :hat:


As for this, I have similar problems. My advice would be to not go on the rebound, but wait it out for a few weeks and try to deduce how she feels about it all.

This thread is better than a Soap Opera! :p
 

HovitosKing

Well-known member
Couple of addenda for my earlier post: 1.) badass = confident, 2.) going for her on the rebound is still better than not acting at all. My central point: don't give yourself a single excuse not to ask her out. Be confident and go for it, regardless of circumstances. You will regret it if you don't (give her a day or two to get over her current loss, but then it's back to business).
 
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michael

Well-known member
Finn said:
And why? Because she's recently broken up. A girl that's willing to throw herself into a new relationship shortly after ending another one is actually a girl you may NOT want to date.
There is a lot of truth here. It's a serious BEWARE sign.

Best of luck though.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
Thanks to all of you.

The only thing I'd have to say is that I'm not looking to ask her out right away. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough. I don't want to ask her out "on the rebound."

But you all have has helped me, nevertheless. And Finn's relic metaphor was pretty funny.

Thanks.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
HovitosKing said:
Just ask yourself, "What would Indy do?" The answer should be clear.
Then look at how many lengthy, healthy relationships that method has brought to him, and the incentive to use it in real life should be equally clear.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, only took him several decades and made him miss a lot of his kid's birthdays.


Oh well, guess that's good enough for some.
 

kongisking

Active member
HovitosKing said:
He ended up ok, if that travesty of a fourth film is to be believed.

*SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH.............*

Anyhoo...

As a fellow teen, I can honestly say to you, WillKill, that I am an utter mess with women. Sometimes I think they are despicable in that they seem to think they are superior to everyone else and therefore act so snippy to everyone (I've encountered many *****es like this, so I guess I'm just a magnet for bad social interaction). And also the fact that I absolutely hate it when girls giggle endlessly at the most insipid thing...:mad: :mad: :mad:

However, I also have a deep respect for the opposite gender in that they are far and away more intelligent, reasonable, and morally balanced than any man on earth. I mean, what side of the gender coin has more often than not been responsible for some of the greatest sins of our race (inventing the nuke, the Holocaust, Al Queda, Westboro Baptist Church, etc.)? Go on, look it up, and tell me of your results. I already know the answer...

The point of this bloated, completely unhelpful post? I sympathize with ya, buddy. I don't mean to come across as the "guy that takes pity on the down kid and acts all nice just to cheer him up", but I seriously doubt that any advice I give will be 1) utterly worthless or 2) doomed to failure. Since I have never exactly engaged a girl in a serious relationship thus far, I've got no experience that could help me in giving advice to you. All I can say is "good luck, I'm rooting for ya, and if the Sith DOES hit the fan we Raveners will be here to help you back up".

Love, kong.
 

Finn

Moderator
Staff member
Not any more than you are, man.

It never was bad advice, by the way... only bad analogy.
 

WillKill4Food

New member
kongisking said:
Sometimes I think they are despicable in that they seem to think they are superior to everyone else and therefore act so snippy to everyone (I've encountered many *****es like this, so I guess I'm just a magnet for bad social interaction).
I've known only a few like this, but then again I tend to steer clear of them. However, the girlfriend of one of my friends fits this description perfectly.

kongisking said:
And also the fact that I absolutely hate it when girls giggle endlessly at the most insipid thing...:mad: :mad: :mad:
I know a girl like this, but I steer clear of this type as well. Actually, another one of my friends dated a girl like this, but eventually dumped her after a few weeks for obvious reasons.

Anyway, Hovitos, as much as I would love to sweep her off her feet in Indy-esque fashion, I don't think it very likely. It's just not my personality.
 

NoCamels

New member
As a girl (and kind of shy in the relationship department, myself) I suggest hanging out more. If you feel really nervous about asking her out on a date, just do something together you both like, whether it's alone or with a group. Don't try to make it a "date" if you feel nervous about it, because it will just be awkward. I mean, if you're already friends, work on that relationship and become better friends. Having that deeper friendship will help any romantic relationship that may follow. Obviously, if you have feelings for her, at some point you will have to tell her, but if you have some practice talking to her about things that interest you both, that conversation will be easier.

Hang out, get to know each other better. A good friendship can survive a dating breakup, if things go that way. If you get know her better, you'll find out whether or not you really do want to date her. (and you'll know what her favorite restaurant/movie/etc is when you do ask her out.)
 
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