Indy catches egg in ToD deleted scene?

Daley

New member
Stoo said:
Daley, please remember, according to the script & novel, it is the PILOT who sees the egg catch, not the co-pilot.

Though Indy's luck & chance factor is a far more believable explanation than 'psychic super ability'. (My girlfriend does strange things with her hands & arms when she is in a deep sleep. Maybe Indy does, too.:p)

Ooh, I haven't been paying attention:eek: ...I think that basically blows my theory out of the water with one fell swoop!!:gun: Okay I'm going to give it some more thought and see if I can bring something else to the table here, hmmm...

I was watching it again today (actually JUST got home after a screening - it was epic watching it surrounded by Indy fans, I loved every second of it!!) - but I paid special attention to the position of Indy's hands (since my previous post I theorised that his hand may have been laying open), and his right hand is actually resting on Shorty's shoulder throughout the scene - what did he do with the egg after he caught it (if he did?)... and why does it look like the position of his hand stays the same, from when we see the pilot pull pack the drape, until Willie wakes him up? Just something else I noticed :)
Could be clever editing as well. Hey perhaps they filmed two versions of the scene - one with the egg gag, one without?
 

Henry W Jones

New member
WARNING: My sketches do NOT feature the Chinese pilots!

Stoo said:
Well, one thing is for sure, I do NOT recall the interaction between the pilots at all. As I've mentioned before, in my memory, it is WILLIE who sees the egg and that is what I drew in my sketches. (I've only been using the photos of the pilots simply to try and illustrate that the scene was filmed.)


Why do you use below photos as evidence constantly to show that it was filmed if they are not in the scene in question? And reference them from book as evidence as well. What do the photos and the book prove then? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


a>
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Henry W Jones said:
Why do you use below photos as evidence constantly to show that it was filmed if they are not in the scene in question? And reference them from book as evidence as well. What do the photos and the book prove then? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
As I said, the photos help show that the scene was filmed. Period. I never said that the pilots weren't in the finished scene, just that I don't remember seeing their extra part (but I remember the egg). Is that so confusing?

The man who edited each of the Indy films, Michael Kahn, has said that "Steven shoots for the editing room", meaning that he films a lot of stuff and then works the scenes out later in the editing stage. (Ex. Some clever editing covers up the fact that Willie went to the back of the plane before looking into the cockpit.)

I've mentioned before that there's a POSSIBILITY that the egg scene changed in the editing stage to make Willie see it, instead of the pilot.

P.S. What's with this: "http://www.flickr.com/photos/62490523@N06/5833417459/" title="Egg_Pilot1 by HWJones, on Flickr.

I put that image together.:gun:
 

Henry W Jones

New member
Daley said:
Ooh, I haven't been paying attention:eek: ...I think that basically blows my theory out of the water with one fell swoop!!:gun: Okay I'm going to give it some more thought and see if I can bring something else to the table here, hmmm...

I was watching it again today (actually JUST got home after a screening - it was epic watching it surrounded by Indy fans, I loved every second of it!!) - but I paid special attention to the position of Indy's hands (since my previous post I theorised that his hand may have been laying open), and his right hand is actually resting on Shorty's shoulder throughout the scene - what did he do with the egg after he caught it (if he did?)... and why does it look like the position of his hand stays the same, from when we see the pilot pull pack the drape, until Willie wakes him up? Just something else I noticed :)
Could be clever editing as well. Hey perhaps they filmed two versions of the scene - one with the egg gag, one without?


I thought that too. I was gonna bring it up after Stoo posted his sketches. Maybe he made it disappear too since he performs magic in his sleep. Hand position is magicians #1 illusion, slight of hand of course.;)

Stoo said:
As I said, the photos help show that the scene was filmed. Period. I never said that the pilots weren't in the finished scene, just that I don't remember seeing their extra part (but I remember the egg). Is that so confusing?

Yeah, a little since these photos are not part of the scene you remember. You can't use them as evidence for a scene you say they are not even in. That makes zero sense. It just shows the pilots were contemplating shooting them and that's it my friend. So shouldn't the pilots be removed from the debate since they aren't in the scene to begin with as you describe?
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
AH! You jest, though you bring up an important question!

What does Indy DO with the egg?

:confused:

He put it in his back pocket.

Twenty-two years later while tied up in the back of Soviet truck he remembers where he left it. It's well and truly hard boiled by now, and makes a distinct ripping sound as he accidentally cuts it with the knife.
 

JayDee

Member
Montana Smith said:
Twenty-two years later while tied up in the back of Soviet truck he remembers where he left it. It's well and truly hard boiled by now, and makes a distinct ripping sound as he accidentally cuts it with the knife.

:D :D Hilarious! I laughed my a** off :D
 

Henry W Jones

New member
Montana Smith said:
He put it in his back pocket.

Twenty-two years later while tied up in the back of Soviet truck he remembers where he left it. It's well and truly hard boiled by now, and makes a distinct ripping sound as he accidentally cuts it with the knife.

Finally a logical answer to the knife gag. Good one.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Henry W Jones said:
You can't use them as evidence for a scene you say they are not even in. That makes zero sense. It just shows the pilots were contemplating shooting them and that's it my friend. So shouldn't the pilots be removed from the debate since they aren't in the scene to begin with as you describe?
Did you actually read my reply?:confused: Once again, I never said that the pilots were not in the scene. I said I don't remember them being in it.

No, the pilots shouldn't be removed from the debate because the photos help to demonstrate that the egg gag was filmed, no matter what shots the finished scene contained.

There are 2 arguments going on in this thread at the same time.
1) Proving that the egg-catch was filmed.
2) Trying to prove that the egg-catch was shown in some prints.
 
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Henry W Jones

New member
Stoo said:
Did you actually read my reply?:confused: Once again, I never said that the pilots were not in the scene. I said I don't remember them being in it.

No, the pilots shouldn't be removed from the debate because the photos help to demonstrate that the egg gag was filmed, no matter what shots the finished scene contained.

There are 2 arguments going on in this thread at the same time.
1) Proving that the egg-catch was filmed.
2) Trying to prove that the egg-catch was shown in some prints.


I've read it several times buddy. The contradiction is incredible here. Your memory is so good that there is no way you could have had a false memory about the movie not having the scene yet you can't remember one way or the other if the pilots are in the scene. Yet the non-believers are supposed to use these photos of the pilots to be convinced that Indy catches an egg.

Stoo said:
Along with the testimony of several witnesses...

2 Americans (at the theatre) Pasedena Jones & chapter 11
2 Canadians (at the theatre) LawgSkrak & myself
1 German: (on VHS) Flannery10

Stoo said:
What happened to the 'falling egg' scene? - Matt Hamilton
"I watched this last night (admittedly the R1 Canadian version).

No one can find the elusive video tapes? Is it easier to find the Ark of the Covenant? Ebay?


juniorjones2009


^ This only proves it was a concept. Where does Short Round fit in? Doesn't he sleep on Indy in the film? By the way that top right pic is Willie and Shorty shooting holes in your logic.;)
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Henry W Jones said:
I've read it several times buddy. The contradiction is incredible here. Your memory is so good that there is no way you could have had a false memory about the movie not having the scene yet you can't remember one way or the other if the pilots are in the scene.
There is no contradiction. I remember the egg but not the pilots. Just because I can't recall the pilots doesn't mean I didn't see the egg. (I also don't remember if I bought licorice or popcorn when I saw "Doom" the first time. Did I have Coke or Sprite? I don't recall!)

Furthermore, some people believe that my memory may have been influenced by the novel. If this was so, then why don't I recall the pilots & gun?
Henry W Jones said:
Yet the non-believers are supposed to use these photos of the pilots to be convinced that Indy catches an egg.
Correct. They are part of the scene as written in the shooting script. How many times does this have to be repeated?
Henry W Jones said:
No one can find the elusive video tapes? Is it easier to find the Ark of the Covenant? Ebay?
"No one can find the elusive video tapes?" Have YOU been helping out by looking?

Henry W Jones said:
^ This only proves it was a concept. Where does Short Round fit in? Doesn't he sleep on Indy in the film? By the way that top right pic is Willie and Shorty shooting holes in your logic.;)
If you want to play the 'logic' angle: this is a simply an early sketch. The scene didn't play out this way in the script nor the novel nor in the film. The fact that Shorty isn't in the drawing is a poor attempt to try and justify that the scene wasn't shot. You'll have to come up with something better than this if you expect to be taken seriously. The top pic is Wille & Shortie shooting holes in YOUR bizarre logic.:gun:
 

Henry W Jones

New member
Stoo said:
There is no contradiction. I remember the egg but not the pilots. Just because I can't recall the pilots doesn't mean I didn't see the egg. (I also don't remember if I bought licorice or popcorn when I saw "Doom" the first time. Did I have Coke or Sprite? I don't recall!)

Furthermore, some people believe that my memory may have been influenced by the novel. If this was so, then why don't I recall the pilots & gun?
Correct. They are part of the scene as written in the shooting script. How many times does this have to be repeated?
"No one can find the elusive video tapes?" Have YOU been helping out by looking?

I have not because I will not spend money on video tapes that I don't need to find a scene that I never saw to find out I bought just another copy of the movie in a format that's outdated. Plus I never saw the VHS in question so I wouldn't even know which one to buy. I have spent a bit of time looking for pics and videos of it on the net. All I ever find is this thread and other non-related Indy pics and videos. But I have searched so I feel I have some room to talk. I'm not just shooting from the hip. Plus your whole statement above says your memory from that day is not 100%

Stoo said:
If you want to play the 'logic' angle: this is a simply an early sketch. The scene didn't play out this way in the script nor the novel nor in the film. The fact that Shorty isn't in the drawing is a poor attempt to try and justify that the scene wasn't shot. You'll have to come up with something better than this if you expect to be taken seriously. The top pic is Wille & Shortie shooting holes in YOUR bizarre logic.:gun:

My logic is solid. And you still have no egg to prove your point. Your grasping for straws.
 

Stoo

Well-known member
Henry W Jones said:
I have not because I will not spend money on video tapes that I don't need to find a scene that I never saw to find out I bought just another copy of the movie in a format that's outdated. Plus I never saw the VHS in question so I wouldn't even know which one to buy. I have spent a bit of time looking for pics and videos of it on the net. All I ever find is this thread and other non-related Indy pics and videos. But I have searched so I feel I have some room to talk. I'm not just shooting from the hip.
As I've told you before there are at least 3 other sites that discuss the scene. Finding someone with an old VHS recording from Czech TV is not going to happen at the snap of a finger. You must realize that. (This is a problem with the Digital/Internet Age. People are becoming too accustomed with instant gratification...It's the 'pics-or-it-didn't-happen' generation.)
Henry W Jones said:
Plus your whole statement above says your memory from that day is not 100%.
You missed my point entirely!:rolleyes: I remember quite a lot about that day but not every tiny, litte detail. Whether or not I recall what I was slurping & munching on in the theatre has no bearing on my witnessing of the egg.
Henry W Jones said:
My logic is solid.
Quite the opposite. Your logic is not solid. Stating that the scene went no further than the concept stage merely because Shortie isn't in the production sketch is not just illogical & silly, it's WRONG!
Henry W Jones said:
And you still have no egg to prove your point. Your grasping for straws.
See above re: instant gratification.

Over a month ago, you wrote that this was a stupid argument yet here you are, still particpating.:p
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Henry W Jones said:
It is silly, but it's so much fun my friend. ;)

It is becoming quite eggciting now, even though it's all a bit scrambled.

Reminds me of that time I was a stunt projectionist on A Clockwork Orange:

Female Psychaitrist: [Changes slide to woman handing bird eggs to a man] "You can do whatever you like with these.

Alex: Eggiweggs. I would like... to smash them. And pick them up, and THROW- [moves injured arm]

Alex: OW! ****ing hell! So did I pass?
 

Kooshmeister

New member
Darth Vile said:
"Makes sense" in context of what exactly?

In the context that it's a night club and therefore floor shows are not only within the realm of possibility but expected? :p

I know the idea of a big musical number in an Indiana Jones film doesn't sit well with you, but when part of the story is taking place in a setting where certain things are likely to happen, then the fact those things happen is not worthy of criticism in and of itself. If you absolutely must criticize this aspect of Temple of Doom, don't waste your effort on the musical number itself. Instead, focus on the root cause of it, the choice to set the opening sequence in a club where floor shows are common.

But to give the film its due credit, the number does serve at least one purpose. It sets the mood. And I don't mean the jokier, more lighthearted feel of the overall film. Rather, it helps to establish that Lao Che's establishment is a very high-class, gaudy joint; a playground for the super-rich after hours. And it does in a way that a bunch of extras in tuxedos sipping wine and champagne ever could. Without Willie Scott's show, Club Obi Wan would've just been a fancy restaurant.

Was this needed? Of course not. There was no reason for Club Obi Wan not to just be a common, ordinary fancy restaurant. Heck, the opening sequence could've taken place almost anywhere with minimal changes to the dialogue and story flow. Indiana could've met Lao Che and his sons at their hideout or some seedy warehouse and it wouldn't have made the littlest difference to the overall plot. Instead, the filmmakers went that extra mile to not only set the otherwise by-the-numbers drama involving Chinese gangsters in a very interesting setting visually, it allowed them to do stuff like having Chen time his gunshots with the cork-popping and provided fun props like the the rolling gong and the serving cart, etc. which are used in the ensuing action sequence, that turned it into something fun and special. In addition, the gaudy floor show recalled similarly-themed acts that were seen in many films of the 1930's.

These elements, I think, are a good defense of the choice to set the beginning in a ritzy club with song and dance. But this is way off-topic...
 
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Darth Vile

New member
Kooshmeister said:
In the context that it's a night club and therefore floor shows are not only within the realm of possibility but expected? :p

I know the idea of a big musical number in an Indiana Jones film doesn't sit well with you, but when part of the story is taking place in a setting where certain things are likely to happen, then those things happening is not worthy of criticism. Rather than knocking the number itself, knock the filmmakers' decision to have the film's beginning in a place where stuff like that happens.

It's not that the scene takes place in a nightclub... It's not that there is a rendition of Porter's 'Anything Goes' at the start... It's that it turns into a dream sequence/faux Busby Berkeley routine - which is incongruous with anything else in Indiana Jones to date. It's telling us that in this movie 'Anything Goes'. It's telling us that this movie, much more so than Raiders, exists in a fantasy world where literally anything can happen (even Willie's Hollywood dream/fantasy playing out in the first few minutes). It's completely bizarre. And whilst I actually enjoy that sequence for what it is (and Williams rendition of the tune), that's the moment (for me anyhow) that Indiana Jones lost that aesthetic of reality i.e. from that moment they could have incorporated "Along time ago. In a galaxy far, far way" in the pre titles.
 
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