What is the real reason Indy and Marion survived?

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Rocket Surgeon said:
You contend the lid isn't part of the Ark?:hat:

One supposes that must have something to do with Belloq's incantation and the ceremonial preparations. High priests were able to handle it on special occasions, weren't they? (That's not an argumentative question, this is just some remote memory of mine about the Holy of Holies. I'm capable of being corrected.)

But even apart from the historical facts, that's the best answer I've got.
 
Attila the Professor said:
One supposes that must have something to do with Belloq's incantation and the ceremonial preparations. High priests were able to handle it on special occasions, weren't they? (That's not an argumentative question, this is just some remote memory of mine about the Holy of Holies. I'm capable of being corrected.)But even apart from the historical facts, that's the best answer I've got.

It's as good a supposition as any...I tend to believe, whereas there are rules, there's no real science to it. Which begs the question, (no offence) The High Priest vs Nazi fodder?!? :D ;)

All in all who knows, which prompted the touching/lid, so sure of yourself question.:hat:

Your question sparks another...could ANY blessing protect an agent whose mission is to further the genocide of God's chosen people?
 

Col. Detritch

New member
Great point.
Originally Posted by kongisking
So Roger Ebert is wrong: it wasn't God Himself helping out the good guys; it doesn't matter who looks in the Ark, they all will be slaughtered without mercy! Hell, even if Martin Luther King Jr. or Jesus himself looked inside (assuming they were still living, of course), they would be killed just the same. NO ONE is to look inside or touch the Ark! NO ONE.

Right! I watchwd a doco at one point about this and it mentioned Jews themselves being insinerated by the Ark just by touching it. The Ark will not discriminate, if you touch it or even look at it funny, no pun intended, you will die. Kind of odd really. The box that contains the ten Commandments, ment to be read, can't be looked at. Which begs the question, then why did they have the Commandments in there?:hat:
 

Attila the Professor

Moderator
Staff member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Read the Bible, then come back with questions...it SHOULD be self explanitory.:hat:

The Bible is many things, but I'm not sure self-explanatory is among them...

But (slight) kidding aside, I'd say that's a good idea. Find one of those sites with a searchable Bible text. Word of advice: use the search term "ark" rather than "covenant." You'll get some Noah stuff you don't want, sure, but covenant will be a long, long list.
 
Attila the Professor said:
The Bible is many things, but I'm not sure self-explanatory is among them...

But (slight) kidding aside, I'd say that's a good idea. Find one of those sites with a searchable Bible text. Word of advice: use the search term "ark" rather than "covenant." You'll get some Noah stuff you don't want, sure, but covenant will be a long, long list.

If you REALLY don't know why they were in there...it's the place to start!
I believe THAT part is self explanitory, no?
 

Perhilion

New member
the whole death and destruction didn't have anything to do withe the ten commandments. it was becaus the presence of God was on the ark. Belloq was right, the Ark was a transmitter for speaking to God.
 

Robyn

New member
Dr Bones said:
Even to the extent of setting Indy and Marion free so they could take the ark away from the wrong hands?

I always thought that was an interesting point, not only does God spare Indy and Marion's lives for humbling themselves before him, but he also disintegrates their ropes and sets them free
 

Kooshmeister

New member
I agree with the supposition that they survived because they just didn't look. Why else would Indy scream for Marion not to look, no matter what? I like the notion that good or evil, regardless of who you are, to look upon the power of the Ark is to die. In that regard, the Ark is fair.

Belloq's summation of the Ark as a transmitter makes some sense. If what we behold when the Ark is opened is indeed the power of God Himself, then not only can it be used as a weapon, but it's too much for mortals to comprehend.

Or, summation:

Belloq, Dietrich and Toht died because, although they were not targets of the Ark's destructive power, they looked at said power, couldn't take it, and their minds and bodies broke. Literally. Like how the voice of God makes your head explode in Dogma.

The soldiers happened to be positioned where an enemy army might be, and they looked, so the Ark automatically fired upon them as shown in the book earlier.

Meanwhile, Indy and Marion didn't look. So the Ark ignored them. Thus, they were spared from both the Ark's destructive powers, as well as from insanity, terror and eventual physical destruction from the sheer magnitude of God's power.
 
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sgttom

New member
Right! I watchwd a doco at one point about this and it mentioned Jews themselves being insinerated by the Ark just by touching it. The Ark will not discriminate, if you touch it or even look at it funny, no pun intended, you will die. Kind of odd really. The box that contains the ten Commandments, ment to be read, can't be looked at. Which begs the question, then why did they have the Commandments in there?
They already knew what the ten commandments said. It was a sacred object carved by God himself. I can understand why it was forbidden to be looked at or touched.

So Roger Ebert is wrong: it wasn't God Himself helping out the good guys; it doesn't matter who looks in the Ark, they all will be slaughtered without mercy! Hell, even if Martin Luther King Jr. or Jesus himself looked inside (assuming they were still living, of course), they would be killed just the same. NO ONE is to look inside or touch the Ark! NO ONE
If High Priests can open and look at the Ark I'd think that Jesus Christ who is God himself can do the same. Though Jesus would have not tried to look at it as it would be a sin and God is sinless.


Kooshmeister said:
I agree with the supposition that they survived because they just didn't look. Why else would Indy scream for Marion not to look, no matter what? I like the notion that good or evil, regardless of who you are, to look upon the power of the Ark is to die. In that regard, the Ark is fair.

Belloq's summation of the Ark as a transmitter makes some sense. If what we behold when the Ark is opened is indeed the power of God Himself, then not only can it be used as a weapon, but it's too much for mortals to comprehend.

Or, summation:

Belloq, Dietrich and Toht died because, although they were not targets of the Ark's destructive power, they looked at said power, couldn't take it, and their minds and bodies broke. Literally. Like how the voice of God makes your head explode in Dogma.

The soldiers happened to be positioned where an enemy army might be, and they looked, so the Ark automatically fired upon them as shown in the book earlier.

Meanwhile, Indy and Marion didn't look. So the Ark ignored them. Thus, they were spared from both the Ark's destructive powers, as well as from insanity, terror and eventual physical destruction from the sheer magnitude of God's power.
Exactly! If you read in the bible the Ark doesn't nessesarily destroy evil people. In one case a man pushed the Ark to steady it from falling and the man was cast to stone. His actions weren't evil but he touched the Ark so he was killed. Marion and Indy didn't die because they didn't look at the Ark. Seems pretty evident to me. The one thing that throws this off a little is there ropes were burned loose. If the Ark doesn't take sides why did that happen? I guess its just a movie.:p
 
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There's interesting insight from the History channel's Indy special which the "historian" says the Ark itself has no power to control, that it's a medium through which God works and cannot be "controlled".

I paraphrase yet this might hold the resolution to all the questions. Whereas God has granted us free will he's not going to use his power for an "unjust" cause.

In addition wasn't the angelof death in exodus not supposed to be seen? Sodom and Gamorrah hadsimilar stipulations. There are some things that you cannot bear wittness to.

It seems to me the angels, (summoned by the ark,((maybe a portal)) not contained within) in the finale work in a similar manner.
 

AnnieJones

New member
I think I listed the events,in this scene,in the order that they happened in the movie(if not please correct me).

1.There was lightning going through the Nazi soldier's bodies.That idea may have come from Revelation 11:19.

2.The idea of "looking" may have come from 1 Samuel 6:19.the only difference in 1 Sam.6:19 is that they looked in the Ark not on or at it.

3.There was also fire and a crack of thunder in this scene.The fire idea may have come from 1 Chronicles 13:10 and the thunder idea may also have come from Rev.11:19.

I hope I was a great help!:hat: (y)
 

arkfinder

New member
It the Old. Test. the Ark carried the laws of the land. It could only be handled by the long poles.

Revelation 19 tells us : "19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm."


So for a movies sake just having them close their eyes worked.
 
arkfinder said:
It the Old. Test. the Ark carried the laws of the land. It could only be handled by the long poles. Revelation 19 tells us : "19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm." So for a movies sake just having them close their eyes worked.

I'm almost positive God reserves the right to change the stipulations of His given grace and curses without prior notification, (he's done it before, see Job), so too bad for us.

Without the expressed written consent of Major League Baseball, I guess we're on our own to figure out things as we go.

Thank his dad Jesus showed up to iron things out...
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
I'm almost positive God reserves the right to change the stipulations of His given grace and curses without prior notification, (he's done it before, see Job), so too bad for us.

Without the expressed written consent of Major League Baseball, I guess we're on our own to figure out things as we go.

Thank his dad Jesus showed up to iron things out...

Remember that, in retrospect, there are more things in heaven and earth that could've played their part in the power of the Ark. ET was missing his skull, and Indy was the chap who was going to retrieve it in 21 years time. It was in ET's interests to be selective, and if they didn't like Spalko, they certainly didn't like the Belloq and the Germans.

Was Jesus any good at baseball? I figured he'd be more the cricketing type, and it's easier to find a red ball in the desert.
 
Montana Smith said:
Remember that, in retrospect...

Bah! Revisionist Historian! No self respecting scientist would draw THAT parallel! Because our man discovers a UFO in the Jungle it's the answer to EVERYTHING? HA! We're into the chicken and the egg here, (as noted elsewhere) who created the Aliens? You did see the crucifix in the UFO right? Proof positive that these creatures were on a mission from God! To remove the heathen idols that early man was mistakenly worshiping and pave way for the one true God. (Box office receipts)

Montana Smith said:
Was Jesus any good at baseball? I figured he'd be more the cricketing type, and it's easier to find a red ball in the desert.
That's a joke right? Yes Jesus could hit a curveball...

Eh, cricket is old testament, baseball new testament.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Bah! Revisionist Historian! No self respecting scientist would draw THAT parallel! Because our man discovers a UFO in the Jungle it's the answer to EVERYTHING? HA! We're into the chicken and the egg here, (as noted elsewhere) who created the Aliens? You did see the crucifix in the UFO right? Proof positive that these creatures were on a mission from God! To remove the heathen idols that early man was mistakenly worshiping and pave way for the one true God. (Box office receipts)

I'd have thought the same, except that the seed was there in 1978. Lucas was harbouring a grudge for 30 years - that Spielberg said "no aliens, George". After 30 years of harrassment Spielberg probably gave in and said, "okay, George, just this once."

If they're on a mission from God (i.e., God's own Men in Black), they're as ruthless as the angels in Hellboy, and that kind of works as well, except they left the treasure behind. It shows that man wasn't the highest creation, but more of a worker drone. But does God in an Indiana Jones film have a human skull, or an elongated one, or none at all?

There's similarities between what happened to Spalko and what happened to Belloq, Dietrich and Toht. They were all given a fitting demise - and it was all very selective. Indy and Marion were allowed to live in Raiders, but at the end of KOTCS, although they weren't selected for death, they still had to risk the collapsing temple and the rising waters to escape. It was as though Indy had completed the task and the Interdimensionals had no further reason to keep him alive.

Rocket Surgeon said:
That's a joke right? Yes Jesus could hit a curveball...

Eh, cricket is old testament, baseball new testament.

I like the way you think!
 

Exulted Unicron

New member
I happened to watch a documentary last night on National Geographic on the Ark. It was very informative. According to the bible, only certain people could touch the ark, see it and use it. Those were the High Priests of Levi. God had chosen them as he deemed them the most pure of all the tribes. It was said that the covered the ark with a shroud of the purest silks and velvets to prevent others from seeing it.
 

Pale Horse

Moderator
Staff member
. This is simply a matter of understanding cause and effect.

It is also a matter of how you understand the sovereignty of God.

Biblically, any attempt by man to ?help? God, approach God, or commune with God according to our terms is a prideful event, and one that will be punished. Though Belloq was adorned in the typical High Priest outfit when he opened the Ark?he presumed he was already sanctified and pure to approach the Holiness of God.

As Jesus said to Satan, when he was in the desert...Do not tempt the Lord your God.

ie: do not put God in a position to be forced to redeem you.

Belloq and the Nazi's were not pure and sanctified. Indy knew this. Indy, even knew he and Marion were not sanctified.

God knows(knew) this too, But, He allowed the Spirit of Death to purify their souls prior to them ascending to the heavens to facilitate their communication with God. Because Indy and Marion were not ready....they did the rightful thing, by shutting their eyes...(the window to their souls) and were spared the sanctification by fire.....there on the island.
 
Montana Smith said:
I'd have thought the same, except that the seed was there in 1978.

Thankfully "a rocky place where [that] seed could find no purchase..."

Montana Smith said:
If they're on a mission from God (i.e., God's own Men in Black), they're as ruthless as the angels in Hellboy, and that kind of works as well, except they left the treasure behind.
It looked to me like they broke those idols into itty bitty little pieces.

Montana Smith said:
It shows that man wasn't the highest creation, but more of a worker drone.
Hmmm, different, not superior or inferior, although being favored among all of God's creations, (angels included) surely infers something more substantial than "drone". Following you down that path, I'd err on the side that mankind is more of an experiment then a drone.

Montana Smith said:
But does God in an Indiana Jones film have a human skull, or an elongated one, or none at all?
We were created in Gods image right, they way HE imagined we should be, (not the way He looks)? I guess if he wanted to have a skull it would be anyway He wanted it to be at any given moment. Who knows the mind/plan/designs of God?

Montana Smith said:
It was as though Indy had completed the task and the Interdimensionals had no further reason to keep him alive.

Well, I choose to think Indy kept himself alive, and that they looked into his cute little primate brain and gave him a reasonable fighting chance to escape the anthill...

Pale Horse said:
ie: do not put God in a position to be forced to redeem you.
Awesome!
 
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