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Old 10-06-2008, 09:21 PM   #276
IndyJr
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I loved the Indy IV Soundtrack. Especially the 2 tracks "Jungle Chase" and "Ants"
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:21 AM   #277
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This score reminded me a great deal of Williams' adventure scores of the 70s. Stuff like The Eiger Sanction, Black Sunday, The Towering Inferno, The Fury. I was even reminded of some of his television work with Irwin Allen.

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Old 10-10-2008, 11:52 AM   #278
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The score didn't jump out at me when I saw the film at the cinema, but since the repeat viewings on Blu-ray I can tell it's very good.
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:30 PM   #279
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So, from the Onion A.V. Club, here's an interesting observation that I wonder if anyone with a better ear for this sort of thing has any perspective on.

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Whether itís wringing some enjoyment out of Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull simply because you realize the skullís theme is basically a backward version of the Ark Of The Covenantís theme in Raiders...

I can sort of see how that might be the case, but does anyone have anything to add?
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:44 PM   #280
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Funny...I just listened to this:

Sean Micallef and Guy Noble on the music of John Williams

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This weekend at the Sydney Opera House the great music of film composer John Williams will come alive with Sean Micallef presenting the music and Guy Noble conducting the wonderful Sydney Symphony Orchestra

Before Friday night and Saturday afternoon, we were very lucky to have Sean and Guy drop by to have some fun and discuss all the great scores from Indiana Jones to Schlinder's List. James also was very open to critique of the program by Sean, pointed out some of the similarities of themes of Star Wars and Superman, and Guy Noble revealed a great talent for impressions.

They mention order of notes...going so far as to call him a one trick pony, (in jest I'm sure). About eight minutes in...

Maybe you could help? Those links to the right of the article include "Share" at the bottom, is there a selection to embed the recording to a message board? Like here for instance?
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:07 PM   #281
Attila the Professor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Funny...I just listened to this:

Sean Micallef and Guy Noble on the music of John Williams



They mention order of notes...going so far as to call him a one trick pony, (in jest I'm sure). About eight minutes in...

Maybe you could help? Those links to the right of the article include "Share" at the bottom, is there a selection to embed the recording to a message board? Like here for instance?

No, I'm not seeing one. Can't even come up with a direct link to just the recording.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:21 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Maybe you could help? Those links to the right of the article include "Share" at the bottom, is there a selection to embed the recording to a message board? Like here for instance?

Heh; got to be honest, in isolation those bits do sound amusingly similar and I've not noticed that before. But of course he's not exactly recycling himself there.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:38 AM   #283
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Personally, I thought his score was excellent.

He integrated and played with the old themes beautifully, and came up with several great new ones, like he did in the previous sequel/prequel (the Skull theme, the Russian theme, Spalko's theme).

He did exactly what he was supposed to do, as far as I'm concerned.

With regards the Skull theme being a backwards version of the Ark theme, is it the three note motif thats being referred to? I think thats coincidental. In any case that three note thing is only a small part of each theme, the rest of which is completely different.
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Old 08-13-2011, 07:40 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtiem
Heh; got to be honest, in isolation those bits do sound amusingly similar and I've not noticed that before. But of course he's not exactly recycling himself there.

There is a certain formula to writing a March!
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:07 PM   #285
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The initial notes for "Call of the Skull" are B-F-B

The initial notes for "The Miracle of the Ark" are G-F# -C

While they are both played on the 1-3-4 they are played with entirely different notes. Also "The Miracle of the Ark" repeats those notes for two bars and the piece changes. While "Call of the Skull" plays the notes over and over the first minute and 14 seconds in a droning fashion to make you fell like your being sucked in. They also at the fifth bar play over the droning notes with the other melody while building the original three notes. At 1 minute and 14 seconds the song drops the droning notes, plays another melody, then brings the droning notes back later in the song. These melodies have very little in common looked at as a whole. A song is more complex than the first three notes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
James also was very open to critique of the program by Sean, pointed out some of the similarities of themes of Star Wars and Superman.

They mention order of notes...going so far as to call him a one trick pony, (in jest I'm sure). About eight minutes in...

These are Hero's themes so of course they have a similar feel. The order of the notes is totally different. This is a situation where most artist have a sound that is just them. AC/DC, Aerosmith, Muddy Waters, Dr. Dre, ect. Stephen King has a certain way about his writing. Most people have a distinctive way of writing, singing, or playing an instrument. John Williams is no exception. Example: I was watching The Outlaw Josey Wales and had to look and see who wrote the screenplay 30 minutes in because something about it reminded me of the dialog in Raiders. Guess what I found? Lawrence Kasdan was behind the screenplay.

Last edited by Henry W Jones : 08-13-2011 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:17 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Attila the Professor
So, from the Onion A.V. Club, here's an interesting observation that I wonder if anyone with a better ear for this sort of thing has any perspective on.



I can sort of see how that might be the case, but does anyone have anything to add?

Just to follow other posters thoughts... Like any composer Williams has his own unique style, which is quite distinctive when listening to his 'standard' work. Again, like many composers, Williams doesn't shy away from being influenced by other writers and of course being influenced (or using) his own work. You only have to listen to his score for The Cowboys to hear the seeds of his Superman, Indiana Jones and Star Wars themes. The trick of course is to make that variation distinct enough to become its 'own thing'... and whilst one could easily argue that the Star Wars, Superman and Indiana Jones marches are all a variation of the same theme, they are all valid and wonderful pieces in their own right (IMHO). I believe the OST to KOTCS added at least 3 great pieces (in relative terms) to Williams overall repertoire.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:18 PM   #287
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KOTCS is a decent score, but it's not like the original three.

There are no real special, STAND OUT moments in the score. When I put in KOTCS, I don't really look forward to any cue. I just sorta listen and go with it.

There is nothing like the cue of Indy finding the exact location of the ark.

There is no bombastic statement of the theme when Indy arrives on the sub.

Or in Temple when Indy takes off in the plane from Shanghai or the powerful Slave Children's theme.

Or in Crusade there is no 12 minute piece like Indy's Very First Adventure or the lovely Scherzo for Motorcycle.

There are parts of the Jungle Chase that stick out, but for the most part, it was NOT John William's fault. Uninspired movie will usually lead to uninspiring music. That's not to say that what is there is bad, because it is good. Just not GREAT like the others
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:32 PM   #288
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The full version of the Jungle chase is pretty decent (although it's no Belly of the Steel Beast) and Ants is a strong track, but I find I enjoy the themes very much in it: they match the quality of the original three, or at the very least stand alongside them, very happily. It's an excellent score.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:36 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtiem
The full version of the Jungle chase is pretty decent (although it's no Belly of the Steel Beast) and Ants is a strong track, but I find I enjoy the themes very much in it: they match the quality of the original three, or at the very least stand alongside them, very happily. It's an excellent score.
Yes the FULL Jungle Chase is fantastic.

The themes were well done, they really were, but on the cd they are all essentially concert arrangements.

I do find them to be great to listen to, but I don't look forward to any parts in them, they are just really nice pieces.
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:11 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael
KOTCS is a decent score, but it's not like the original three.

There are no real special, STAND OUT moments in the score. When I put in KOTCS, I don't really look forward to any cue. I just sorta listen and go with it.

There is nothing like the cue of Indy finding the exact location of the ark.

There is no bombastic statement of the theme when Indy arrives on the sub.

Or in Temple when Indy takes off in the plane from Shanghai or the powerful Slave Children's theme.

Or in Crusade there is no 12 minute piece like Indy's Very First Adventure or the lovely Scherzo for Motorcycle.

There are parts of the Jungle Chase that stick out, but for the most part, it was NOT John William's fault. Uninspired movie will usually lead to uninspiring music. That's not to say that what is there is bad, because it is good. Just not GREAT like the others

I don't know... to each their own, but I actually find the KOTCS OST to be a really elegant and sophisticated Williams score. I don't think it's up there with TLC OST, but for my money it's a much more solid and layered piece than the TOD score (although I still liked that one too).

Also, your point about "uninspired movies"... I don't think the process really works that way. I think composers very rarely get to compose to a completed movie i.e. directors will talk through the tone, themes or specific scenes with the composer and write the main themes in advance of seeing the whole thing. For example, I'm pretty sure the Raiders March was written before Williams had seen a finished cut of the movie (same with the main themes for Star Wars, ET and Superman). So perhaps it's more that your view of the movie shapes your view of the score???
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:24 PM   #291
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I think the unreleased alternates would really improve the score IMHO

but, my Complete Score will do for now

EDIT: oh and my favorite moment has to be the soft statement of Spalko's theme in the tent scene.
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Old 08-18-2011, 01:35 PM   #292
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When the films first came out, I wasn't too impressed with the score, but when this Staff of Kings trailer came out(which just used the music from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull) I realized just how impressive this score really was. There are many catchy(and memorable) melodies through-out this soundtrack, several of them weren't even used in that trailer. While I can get onboard in saying its not as good as the first 3, I say its a very good score, and compared to say the score from Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides you'll see this score is far more diverse and memorable than that film and this easily could've been far worse. I know that many don't compare this film to The Dark Knight anymore, but I think we can agree the score from Kingdom was far better than the one from TDK(which just copied and pasted the score from Batman Begins).

Also think about this, John Williams was 76 when Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was released, and at 79 today, he's still composing for Spielberg's two latest films. The fact that he's still capable of writing and composing music(let anyone one as strong as Kingdom of the Crystal) is impressive in and of itself.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:13 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
but for my money it's a much more solid and layered piece than the TOD score (although I still liked that one too).

KOTCS a more solid and layered piece than ToD? Really?

I know ToD is your least favorite movie out of the bunch, so are you sure it's not your view of the movie that shapes your view of the score? JW was in his absolute prime in 1984. Could not be touched.

But like you said. To each their own I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Also, your point about "uninspired movies"... I don't think the process really works that way. I think composers very rarely get to compose to a completed movie i.e. directors will talk through the tone, themes or specific scenes with the composer and write the main themes in advance of seeing the whole thing. For example, I'm pretty sure the Raiders March was written before Williams had seen a finished cut of the movie (same with the main themes for Star Wars, ET and Superman). So perhaps it's more that your view of the movie shapes your view of the score???

Sure the process works that way. He watched it and scored it. 2008, far from the JW in 1984. The final two acts of the film were uninspired and lackluster. The music followed suit.

The first third of the movie contains the best music, which again, was the best part of the movie, IMO.

I will say though, that the themes/concert arrangements that JW came up with for Mutt, Spalko and the Crystal Skull are FANTASTIC. So in that respect, he wasn't really uninspired. But as far as scoring the film, it's just sort of filler sounding at times.

The best stuff from this score is officially unreleased, which is a shame.

But back to my original point, there are just not many parts in the score I eagerly await to hear. "The Departure" is one I can think of, and the very last bit of the end credits with Indy and Mutt's theme sort of mixed.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:15 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael
KOTCS a more solid and layered piece than ToD? Really?

I know ToD is your least favorite movie out of the bunch, so are you sure it's not your view of the movie that shapes your view of the score? JW was in his absolute prime in 1984. Could not be touched.

But like you said. To each their own I guess.

The TOD OST, like the movie itself, is hastily put together I think. In comparison to his other notable scores, it's rather unsophisticated and uses way to much of the Raiders March for my liking. It's possibly a more accessible score than KOTCS i.e. less demanding... but that's the primary reason why I don't rate it that highly (in terms of Williams work). I think the love theme is great (Nocturnal Activities) and of course Slave Children's Crusade is class, but the rest is really run of the mill stuff (IMHO).

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael
Sure the process works that way. He watched it and scored it. 2008, far from the JW in 1984. The final two acts of the film were uninspired and lackluster. The music followed suit.

The first third of the movie contains the best music, which again, was the best part of the movie, IMO.

I will say though, that the themes/concert arrangements that JW came up with for Mutt, Spalko and the Crystal Skull are FANTASTIC. So in that respect, he wasn't really uninspired. But as far as scoring the film, it's just sort of filler sounding at times.

The best stuff from this score is officially unreleased, which is a shame.

But back to my original point, there are just not many parts in the score I eagerly await to hear. "The Departure" is one I can think of, and the very last bit of the end credits with Indy and Mutt's theme sort of mixed.

I understand why you don't particularly like KOTCS, and I can understand why the OST doesn't do it for you... but I just don't think scoring a movie is necessarily as black and white as "if the movie is good/bad, the music will be the same". IMHO - there are far better movies than KOTCS with far inferior soundtracks...

I think the OST for KOTCS is a really well crafted piece of music (possibly more atmospheric than the others, probably less 'poppy')... and it's also nearly twice as long than the original edits of the first 3 soundtracks, which means there is a lot more esoteric cues to get through... but personally speaking (and as you say) I think Call of the Crystal Skull, The Adventures of Mutt (the version without all the Indy theme) Irena's Theme, Jungle Chase and Ants! are as good as anything he's done of that ilk
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:58 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
The TOD OST, like the movie itself, is hastily put together I think. In comparison to his other notable scores, it's rather unsophisticated and uses way to much of the Raiders March for my liking. It's possibly a more accessible score than KOTCS i.e. less demanding... but that's the primary reason why I don't rate it that highly (in terms of Williams work). I think the love theme is great (Nocturnal Activities) and of course Slave Children's Crusade is class, but the rest is really run of the mill stuff (IMHO).


I do tend to agree in a way; it's a brilliantly exuberant score (something I think the slightly drier and technical Crusade score misses out on, slightly), but at times the CD can be a slightly dull listen as a lot of it just follows the action onscreen (which is what it's supposed to do, after all), and I know what you mean about the Raiders march- the escape from the mine is a bit annoying with all those Raiders bits. It's probably the one I listen to the least.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vile
I think the OST for KOTCS is a really well crafted piece of music (possibly more atmospheric than the others, probably less 'poppy')... and it's also nearly twice as long than the original edits of the first 3 soundtracks, which means there is a lot more esoteric cues to get through... but personally speaking (and as you say) I think Call of the Crystal Skull, The Adventures of Mutt (the version without all the Indy theme) Irena's Theme, Jungle Chase and Ants! are as good as anything he's done of that ilk

Yeah, they're all crackers.
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:58 PM   #296
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What I appreciate about the score is Williams' homage to Korngold in Mutt's theme.
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Old 08-21-2011, 06:25 PM   #297
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It's very swashbuckling, yeah; good point. It's not favourite as there isn't a great hook to it, but it works well with his swordfighting.
I watched Skull today and noticed how good that sword fight on the back of the jeeps is; very nicely done fight, and in the shots where the stuntmen are doing it for real it looks great.
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