Does anyone have info on the flying wing?

I

Iehow Esq

Guest
Does anyone know anything about the flying wing in The Raiders of the Lost Ark? I am wondering if this is a real aircraft and if so, what is the make and model?
 

Trevor G

TR.N Staff Member
There were flying wing aircraft back in WWII, I know that much. If the one in Raiders resembles the true aircraft though, I'm not sure.

I've seen many comprehensive drawings of what was going to be the plane in Raiders. all seemed fictional. I would think that it was a true representation of what they looked like, but I'll leave it to the experts. ;)

Trev

PS-welcome :D
 

monkey

Guest
The aircraft added to the 'aura' of the movie

I only know that it strongly resembles a German aircraft that came out late in the war. Except that the aircraft that came out late in the war was launched more or less like a rocket (Werner Von Braun was involved in its development) and it was jet powered. That aircraft was capable of incredible speeds for its day (1945). But there were a lot of bugs that were never quite worked out before the war ended. I wish I could tell you the name of it, but it eludes me at the moment. Check out any good book about German aircraft of World War II, you'll find it in there I'm sure.

As for the strange aircraft in Raiders, I'm not sure at all. I too have often wondered about that. Why would they have such a strange 'futuristic' type aircraft? Why not use something more fitting for the time period (1936).

I think the answer may have been that Spielberg was trying to create a certain 'aura'. By using this futuristic looking aircraft, it led you to think about concepts like 'Nazi super weapons', 'secret Nazi this' or 'secret Nazi that'.

So what would they be able to do if they got their hands on the Ark????? Especially once they used their 'secret advanced Nazi technology'!!!

Something like that. Just my guess.
 
S

starks_6

Guest
The flying wing is an interesting subject. It was a real aircraft built by the germans during world war two, they figured that if planes fly with wings then a wing with engines would have to be one of the best aircraft everbuilt, but it was actually one oof the worst being slow and having next to no maneuverability. The real thing looked a little different too. Real flying wings had four engines but during the filming of Raiders Lucas had filming time cut back so a whole section of movie was cut which was supposed to have Indy flying to germany in the flying wing, and also the building time of the flying wing was cut down and so was built with the two engines instead of the four.

I can almost reach it Dad- Indy
 

Sacred Goor

New member
Hi

Monkey is right on the money with his answer. A German jet fighter WAS developed by the Luftwaffe towards the close of WWII, but came too late to be put into active service. A good thing too, some historians argue that enough of these fighters "could" have turned the tide of the war back in Axis favour. I forget the exact name of it too, but it was built by Messerschmidt (surprisingly!), and i remember it looked more like your conventional jet fighter, but i'm not sure.

I don't think that technology for flying wing type craft turned up until stealth-type aircraft were developed (from alien blueprints found at Roswell, of course!) but i'd be interested to know otherwise.

I agree with Monkey that the futuristic vibe of the flying wing was to add to the slightly fantastic aura of the film, the idea of Nazi secret weapons, of which the Ark itself was intended to be added to the arsenal.

The plane itself, though not capable of flight, was built by Vickers here in the UK, and yes, was cut back from four engines to two to keep production costs down.

Cheers
 

Col. Musgrove

New member
However fictional, the Flying Wing really looked like it could fly. And I've seen pictures of real 'flying wings,' very similar.

I have a question too: I have some reason to believe that a model kit of the Flying Wing exists. Not the real ones, I've seen those kits, but the one in Raiders. Could anyone help me out?
 
M

monkeyman

Guest
Flying Wing info

According to the Raiders of the Lost Ark Collectors Album "The Futuristic flying wing was choosen by director Steven Spielberg to represent the ominous and advanced state of aeronautics in Hitler's Germany. Production designer Norman Reynolds used a Northrop Corporation prototype of the Flying Wing and drawings by Ron Cobb to design for Raiders this strange plane that has no tail and no fuselage. The plant was built in England by Vickers Aircraft Company and painted at EMI Elstree Studios in London. In order to ship the elaborate prop to Tunisia for filming, it had to be disassembled and sent in parts, then rebuilt on location." There is some additional info on this in the book "The best of the Lucasfilm archives". I hope this helps.
 

indydude

New member
Re: The aircraft added to the 'aura' of the movie

monkey said:
I only know that it strongly resembles a German aircraft that came out late in the war. Except that the aircraft that came out late in the war was launched more or less like a rocket (Werner Von Braun was involved in its development) and it was jet powered. That aircraft was capable of incredible speeds for its day (1945). But there were a lot of bugs that were never quite worked out before the war ended. I wish I could tell you the name of it, but it eludes me at the moment. Check out any good book about German aircraft of World War II, you'll find it in there I'm sure.

As for the strange aircraft in Raiders, I'm not sure at all. I too have often wondered about that. Why would they have such a strange 'futuristic' type aircraft? Why not use something more fitting for the time period (1936).

I think the answer may have been that Spielberg was trying to create a certain 'aura'. By using this futuristic looking aircraft, it led you to think about concepts like 'Nazi super weapons', 'secret Nazi this' or 'secret Nazi that'.

So what would they be able to do if they got their hands on the Ark????? Especially once they used their 'secret advanced Nazi technology'!!!

Something like that. Just my guess.

actualy the nazis did have planes that sort of looked like that exept they were not planes they were gliders and did not have that much propelers, about it being to futeristic, it was about to be worse, the mechanic was going to be a cyborg with a big grabber arm, I have a book that has some original concept art and the flying wing was going to be a modern style fighter jet, so be fortunate it is just a flying wing.
 

Pilot

New member
Northrup experimented with flying wings, beginning in the late 1930's and built an eight-engine flying wing bomber in the late 1940's, which was later changed to jet power. Northrup lost an air force contract to build more. So they never really got much beyond the prototype stage.
 
F

FHHUBER

Guest
There were MANY flying wing aircraft under development by Germany in WWII. For an incomplete listing of German flying wings :: http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Lippisch_Nurflugels/left_lippischmasterborder.html

The Horton flying wing which is in the Smithsonian was referenced by the designers of the B-2 Stealth bomber (to solve some problems they were having), over 30 years after the end of WWII.

Probably the closest design to the Raiders aircraft: http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Lippisch_Nurflugels/P_04-114/lippisch_p_04-114_schematic.JPG is truely tail-less, but is a bit smaller than what was in the movie.
 

1bumthumb

New member
Flying wing

i believe that the airplane in question is a Gottha Flying Wing.
they were piston powered, similar to Northrup's flying wing which was fooled around with in the 1940's. It was around the time of the B-36 " Peacemaker".
There was a programme about it on a TV show called " Wings " which I believe to be British.
The Americans laughed at Jack Northrup, but before he died, the brought him into the Pentagon and as he still had top secret clearance they shoud him a model of the new B-2 Flying wing.
They finally overcame the weird flying characteristics of the profile with computers.
The German's were very ahead of their time with aircraft experimentation, and had even put wings on backward similar to the B-31a.
A lot of the stuff they are horsing around with now was prototyped by the German's way back then.
Hell, I read a book by Willie Ley where the had figured out the rocketryto send a 3 stage rocket all the way to the USA by bouncing it off the ionosphere. Remember the " if we don't get the entry angle right, we'll bounce off back into space ". Where do you think that came from?
So much for the stuff I read.....
 

greyfalcon

New member
Fwing3.jpg


northrop_xb-35.jpg


The plane in Raiders looked so unique because it was.

The futuristic Flying Wing was chosen by director Steven Spielberg to represent the ominous and advanced state of aeronautics in Hitler's Germany.

In the film it is in Egypt for the top secret mission of transporting the sacred Ark of the Covenant.

Production designer Norman Reynolds used a Northrop Corporation prototype of the Flying Wing (B-36) and drawings by Ron Cobb to design for Raiders of the Lost Ark this strange plane that has no tail and no fuselage. The plane was built in England by Vickers Aircraft Company and painted at EMI Elstree Studios in London. In order to ship the elaborate prop to Tunisia for filming, it had to be disassembled and sent in parts, then rebuilt on location.

http://greyfalcon.us/The%20Horten%20Ho%20229.htm


:whip:
 

Stoo

Well-known member
"Raiders" Brainstorm Transcript Revelations

*BUMP* (There are few flying wing threads but this one is the best. "An oldie but a goodie".):D
greyfalcon said:
The futuristic Flying Wing was chosen by director Steven Spielberg to represent the ominous and advanced state of aeronautics in Hitler's Germany.
Don't know the source of this info (posted twice in this thread) but it appears to be incorrect.
According to the transcript of the Lucas/Kasdan/Spielberg brain-storming sessions for "Raiders":

Kasdan: How many engines do they have?
Lucas: Four. It depends on how big it is.
Spielberg: Is it the B-36 with eight engines backwards?
Lucas: Yes. The wing has four engines backwards...

Another interesting revelation from the transcript is that the flying wing was originally envisioned
to be landing just as Indy escapes the Well of the Souls.

Lucas: All you need is him poking his head out of the temple and seeing all the Germans. Then you
cut to the wing landing. I want a great shot of the wing flying. The wing could land, and taxi to one
of the buildings and say, "Fill this up with gas. We have a precious cargo to load." They're loading
the wing up with gas, and he goes and gets into a fight with the guys...
+
Lucas: They say, "Get this thing gassed in a hurry. Don't even shut the engines off because we have
a precious cargo and it has to get out of here right away."

I really like this idea and it would have great to have seen a shot of the wing in flight but, because it
can be seen in a few shots beforehand (camouflaged under a tarp in the background), we can assume:

a) The flying wing was in camp the whole time Indy was there.
b) The flying wing was covered by a tarp in an attempt to hide it from the audience? (Not likely.)
 
BV-38 Flying Wing

The History Channel Show "Mail Call" with R Lee Ermey devotes a segment of the show to the flying wing...put it on your DVR!

Black Sun Models : BV-38 Flying Wing

3356566847_c141e44fe5.jpg
Available from Starship Modeler
MISCELLANY
Kit # BS-BV38
Scale: 1:72
Pattern Maker: Thorsten Dreisel
Caster: Blap! Models
Produced: December 2007

3357394346_2b372faab4.jpg


Indy: "They're gonna fly it out of here. When that ark gets loaded we'll already be on that plane."

So begins one of the most harrowing fight sequences in cinematic history as Indy goes fist-to-fist with nazis while dodging the spinning propellers of an out-of-control flying wing and we are introduced to one of the most unique contrivances devised for the screen, the nazi flying wing.

The fictional flying wing prototype was designed by concept artist Ron Cobb who is listed as one of the production artists (although in the bonus material disc of the Indiana Jones box set, the design of the wing was attributed to Raiders of the Lost Ark Production Designer, Norman Reynolds). The inspiration for the wing was not from the many advanced tailess designs of the nazi plane designers like the Horton bros. but by an american flying wing prototype from the 1940s (although it was never mentioned, but I'm guessing the specific inspiration may have been one of Jack Northrop's early flying wing designs). The full-sized model was built by the Vickers Aircraft Company and shipped in pieces to the set in Tunisia where it was assembled on set. Although the action was all between Indy and the big nazi goon, the centerpiece of the sequence was the flying wing!


This model kit is cast in 50 grey resin parts with 8 vacuformed clear parts for the canopy (4 required, with one extra set), water-slide decals, instruction sheet with painting and decal placement guide. There is one pilot figure and landing gear but no base or stand included.
The cockpit parts are nicely done, with a good amount of detail. The plastic seems different than what was used to cast the main body and other detail parts. The interior parts are a slightly darker grey and quite flexible but the detail is very sharp.
The landing gear parts are quite impressive. The heavy strut, wheel truck and wheels seem overbuilt for the plane, but look quite accurate to the physical model seen onscreen.

The engine parts are also very well done. The exhaust pipes are tiny but well cast. All the parts were mostly bubble-free--there's one bubble on the tip of one of the spinners.

The fuselage is incredibly well done. It is a substantial, solid casting with a wing span of over 12 inches.

A hallmark of Blap! Models is clean, bubble-free castings with hair-thin seam lines. The castings for the BV-38 are no exception. Mr. Dreisel's immaculate pattern work is well represented here with very fine, even engraved panel lines and other surface detail.

The underside of the fuselage is just as impressive as the top. In this view you can see the molded-in detail of the engine nacelle and the delicate panel lines throughout. The slots are for the exhaust pipes, intake vent and landing gear strut. These parts are all accurately keyed for a nice positive fit. There's no guessing where things go here!
Just visible are the anti-skid strips framed by the tub for the tailgunner turret, the access tunnel hump and the wing.
The wings feature sharply rendered control surfaces, panel lines and access panels.
I've left off the seat in this picture to show off the back wall and floor of the cockpit. There's stowage space behind the seat and the door leading to the tailgunner's turret.

The headlight frames seem a bit exaggerated compared to the full-scale mock-up. These could be sanded down a bit for a more realistic look. Or the more ambitious modeler can carve them out altogether and rebuild the headlamps completely.

The air intake scoops just above them are a little soft and chunky too. These can be reshaped easily with a hobby knife and file.

The pilot's seat looks thicker and flatter than what can be seen onscreen. Not a problem if you're using the pilot, but I think I might be rebuilding the seat with a more curved, thinner back using some thin sheet styrene and raiding the photo-etch pile for some in-scale seat belts
The instrument panels are nicely done. After painting, a bit of clear epoxy in each bezel ought to give them a good, realistic look. The rudder pedals are kind of thick and plain though, and there's no throttle quadrant so maybe I'll be back to the photo-etch stash for those as well. The cockpit walls are devoid of detail. Although there's not much room there, a bit of wire and silver solder will busy it up.
The very chunky landing gear accounts for 20 of the 50 parts in this kit. They are well cast with good detail. The top of the truck is one of the few places I found a bubble. Not a big deal visually as that part is seated into the bottom of the strut when assembled but I'm wondering if this isn't going to be a weak point in the model. The gear truck is made of the same darker grey plastic the cockpit interior is made of and is quick flexible but easily broken off. I may reinforce the gear by pinning the truck to the strut with a length of brass rod. Also, there can be seen brake lines and wiring running from the struts down to the trucks. Annealed speaker wire can be used to add this detail to the model.
4 clear vacuformed parts make up the canopy and tail-gunnner's turret. A thoughtful inclusion are cast resin bucks to support the canopy parts when trimming and polishing. There's also a back-up set of parts in case the knife slips!
The pilot figure looks okay, though a bit stiff. Detail on it looks soft as well, but I think it should paint up nicely. The cockpit is so nice and there's enough canopy to really show off the inside that I may just lay this guy to one side so he won't block the view.

Giant 7 foot tall quarter not included. : )

Black Sun Models BV-38 is one of the best engineered and well executed garage kit I've seen in a long time, with fine detail, delicate panel scribing and well considered parts breakdown. The pattern maker designed this kit to be as trouble-free as possible and the casting is nearly flawless. As a garage kit hobbyist, I think I can easily be spoiled by the quality of the production and service. This is state-of-the-art as far as garage kits go; a far cry from the bubbly, sticky approximations that was common to the craft only a few years ago.

A couple of notes to the instruction sheet: In step 3, the builder is directed to attach the engine exhausts (parts # 21) on the inboard side of each nacelle, curling down and in. I've done a frame-by-frame review of the entire sequence and it's clear in several shots that the exhaust pipes curl out. Also, in the shot where the planes wing tip tears open the fuel truck, I can clearly see the underside of the wing is marked with a cross, not a swastika. So in regards to the Decals portion of the instruction sheet, use the swastikas on the tops of the wings and use the crosses beneath.

It only took 27 years for a decent sized model of this unique and memorable movie vehicle to become a model kit. Now, if only someone were to make one in styrene, maybe in 1/32 or even 1/24?

Moderator's Note: The above text comes from this site. Cite your sources next time, if you're going to quote verbatim.
 
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WillKill4Food

New member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Because plagiarism is wrong. Dishonesty is wrong. Robbing someone else of their intellectual property by claiming it to be your own is wrong. Are you incapable of understanding basic morality and ethics?
 
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