Brace yourselves! - The first wave of negative buzz

G-Man said:

it's looking like it will be the most polarizing of all the Indy movies

Click to expand...

Bingo! Interesting discussions to come to the Raven in the future...

Matt Holcomb said:

This is what one of the CHUD guys said in response to someone who also doesn't think the negative buzz is particularly well-founded:

"I know of at least a few people here at CHUD who've read at least one incarnation of the script, including myself. And although the details of the script have certainly changed over the years, the broad strokes have remained essentially the same. So there's that.

Then add details (good, bad or otherwise) from REAL people who've worked on the film and compare that information to the earlier drafts of the script. From that you can tell what ideas (good, bad or otherwise) have been abandoned, improved or stuck with. Then take what you can out of the trailer and production stills and interviews and carefully work that into the equation. And finally, look at the track records of the key creative participants involved and factor those in.

NONE of this tells me exactly how well the finished film will work or what I will ultimately think of it. But it does give me a feeling of the direction the film is headed in.

I don't want to speak for Jeremy, Andre, Devin or anyone else, but I have to assume this is more or less the same basic "recipe" they're basing their expectations on. And that's FAR more informed and considered than the ridiculous mindset you characterized above.

I also don't think anyone is saying it's going to outright suck. They're just saying, keep your expectations grounded. What's so wrong with that?"

http://chud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107676&page=4

Click to expand...

Let me guess... They read the Saucerman script and think they know everything now.

"And finally, look at the track records of the key creative participants involved and factor those in."

The only person with a questionable "track record" on this film is Lucas, and that's only because of the prequels. But he directed those, exercised total and final creative control...and he's not doing that this time, Spielberg is. Everyone else is either the same as did the previous three films, or is new but one of the absolute top people in their field. David Koepp has his detractors, but his work is based on the work of others who are very good (Nathanson, Darabont).

It doesn't sound like this guy is doing anything different than WE are...he's looking at the available media, the trailer, interviews, etc., factoring in the opinions of some "insiders" and forming his own hypothesis.

How is that different from what we've all been doing here since production began (or far before for some)? It's not different at all.

I would add too that reading a script, and forming an opinion of the film that might result from it, is risky business (even a "shooting script"). Many minor, or even major elements may undergo change during shooting. You can't predict the subtleties of how the actors will handle a scene, how the director will sculpt it, how production design such as sets and costumes may affect things tonally... You'd probably have to be an experienced filmmaker or actor yourself to really form a decent judgment.

Don't all get your panties in a bunch! All of these websites claim to have seen or know a guy who knows a guy, and they're usually wrong or only partially right.

All of the filmmakers involved have a good track record. Say what you want about Lucas, but he has good ideas and is an excellent producer. These films are a complete 180 degrees from Star Wars in terms of how they're made so don't let the prequels worry you. Spielberg and Koepp have been making good films for the past few years and I doubt they'll diverge too much from the formula. Still, we know there's a UFO plotline so it may be hard for some to swallow given the religious relics used in prior films.

I'll use my own judgment, not some loser movie website.

sandiegojones said:

Don't all get your panties in a bunch! All of these websites claim to have seen or know a guy who knows a guy, and they're usually wrong or only partially right.

All of the filmmakers involved have a good track record. Say what you want about Lucas, but he has good ideas and is an excellent producer. These films are a complete 180 degrees from Star Wars in terms of how they're made so don't let the prequels worry you. Spielberg and Koepp have been making good films for the past few years and I doubt they'll diverge too much from the formula. Still, we know there's a UFO plotline so it may be hard for some to swallow given the religious relics used in prior films.

I'll use my own judgment, not some loser movie website.

Click to expand...

i don't see how people are worried about this because of the Saucer Man script. They used bits of Christopher Columbus' Monkey King script for the third and looked how that turned out. This is their process. It really doesn't seem different from the way they filmed the others.

Imagine if the internet were around in the 80s.

spiralout said:

Let me guess... They read the Saucerman script and think they know everything now.

Click to expand...

I think they're talking about the Darabont script, which a lot of guys at CHUD read back in the day.

You can see a group of raveners escaping here... and patriarch Lucas on the left top saying "I told you! it's not the second coming!"
Let's chill and enjoy.

Yes, chill and enjoy is good advice.

So we've heard a bit of negative word. There's no need to slam it to make yourselves feel better (like it or not, CHUD.com has some pretty good pipelines to the production of KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL), but there's no need to take it as definitive and start biting your nails, either. After all, CHUD's not even taking it as definitive - Devin's said he's hoping for the best, and on the whole, Devin's been supportive of INDY IV.

There's a lot of reason to be excited about KOTCS, and there's some good reason to be cautious. It's probably better to go in a little guarded, if only so you'll enjoy the end result more, regardless of what it ends up looking like. As for now, savor the anticipation, enjoy the excitement, and when KOTCS arrives, we'll see how it comes out.

It was a bit uncouth last July when, after many small accurate leaks, someone at CHUD proclaimed "my excitement level for this movie couldn't be any ****ing lower! The sooner Spielberg moves on to Lincoln, the better."
http://chud.com/articles/articles/10958/1/
They've expressed frustration with the long wait, Ford's age, the concept, and that it wasn't Darabont writing about the concept they didn't like. Yet Devin Faraci was rewarded with a set visit for leaking far less than he could have. (The leaker(s) were not found to my knowledge.)
http://chud.com/articles/articles/12095/1/
Every Indy film is a departure from the last, and will take some adjusting to. It will be different from recent action films. It won't look like the film was stuffed in a blender (Transformers). You see movies twice when the first time was a blur, but also because you realize later it was memorable. Stated in the link above, Spielberg will "give his audience a master shot... to decide who to look at in a scene, and not do a ton of inserts and pump up the feeling of action with a zillion cuts." Surely some execs have watched the movie unfold at regular speed, expecially reel 2, and are worried the target audience will start fiddling with their cell phones.

I've never liked Chud there approach towards film, to me, as always seemed somewhat uncouth
They constantly claim rumours as fact and it seems like they're there to just bring down movie goers
I feel like they are being negative for the sake of being negatve
I, for one, will not let some unknown individual behind a computer who claims he knows everything there is to know about film, or this film in particular, make the decision on whether or not it will be good
That decision is mine and mine alone

KotCS is going to be an effen great ride!

I can't help thinking that Lucasfilm is deliberately feeding some sites these negative thoughts about the film. Talk about quelling the highest expectations of the "Second Coming", just like Lucas said.

Matt Holcomb said:

This is what one of the CHUD guys said in response to someone who also doesn't think the negative buzz is particularly well-founded:

"I know of at least a few people here at CHUD who've read at least one incarnation of the script, including myself. And although the details of the script have certainly changed over the years, the broad strokes have remained essentially the same. So there's that.

Then add details (good, bad or otherwise) from REAL people who've worked on the film and compare that information to the earlier drafts of the script. From that you can tell what ideas (good, bad or otherwise) have been abandoned, improved or stuck with. Then take what you can out of the trailer and production stills and interviews and carefully work that into the equation. And finally, look at the track records of the key creative participants involved and factor those in.

NONE of this tells me exactly how well the finished film will work or what I will ultimately think of it. But it does give me a feeling of the direction the film is headed in.

I don't want to speak for Jeremy, Andre, Devin or anyone else, but I have to assume this is more or less the same basic "recipe" they're basing their expectations on. And that's FAR more informed and considered than the ridiculous mindset you characterized above.

I also don't think anyone is saying it's going to outright suck. They're just saying, keep your expectations grounded. What's so wrong with that?"

http://chud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107676&page=4

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what Litmus Config.. wrote. And I think he agrees with what Devin et al wrote.
I think he doesn't have the "sources" that Devin & Co have, though. They made it clear that it's someone who has seen some cut of the film (therefor the ..."caution"). I remember a few days back Litmusblahblahblah told how he knew folks on the crew who reacted rather lukewarm to what they saw/worked on. So he's got that connection. I doubt he knows what has been going on in post.

And while we're at it: Other people on the web who more or less crypticly have showed they know "things" about the movie... Ben There over at spielbergfilms.com. I always wondered: Was his wife working on that one? If you search for statements reassuring you how great this film will be read his posts over at spielbergfilms.

I'm starting to brace myself for the very worst now

TRAILERS

Trailers, have got ridiculously out of control across this decade...totally, totally ridiculous.

Now I want to see some new shots from KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL as much as the next person, and if a really long trailer came out I wouldn?t be able to stop myself from watching it...but, I?m extremely happy that there hasn?t been a long trailer been released, and hope there never will be. It keeps the entire thing FRESH when you finally get to see at the cinema. I can actually remember in 1996 when the picture Dragonheart was about to come out, and I managed to see just about every single effects shot there was of the Dragon on the TV. I got to the cinema...and quite literally there wasn?t anything much left to see (effects wise)

That?s one example anyway. Another would be the trailers for Spider-Man 2 and 3 which seemed to show you the entire story.

Stanley Kubrick had the right idea about trailers...just keep it brief.

Trailers to me are also like book covers, think about it, they?re so out of context...you don?t really get a feel for what your going to see because its been diced up...which gets me onto movie clips.

MOVIE CLIPS

I think movie clips are much better, a little clip can give you a feel for what the film is like, I don?t think ten minutes is a good idea (which is another trend that seems to be happening) but yeah, maybe a minute clip or a minute thirty is a good thing.

Matt Holcomb said:

This is what one of the CHUD guys said in response to someone who also doesn't think the negative buzz is particularly well-founded:

"I know of at least a few people here at CHUD who've read at least one incarnation of the script, including myself. And although the details of the script have certainly changed over the years, the broad strokes have remained essentially the same. So there's that.

Then add details (good, bad or otherwise) from REAL people who've worked on the film and compare that information to the earlier drafts of the script. From that you can tell what ideas (good, bad or otherwise) have been abandoned, improved or stuck with. Then take what you can out of the trailer and production stills and interviews and carefully work that into the equation. And finally, look at the track records of the key creative participants involved and factor those in.

NONE of this tells me exactly how well the finished film will work or what I will ultimately think of it. But it does give me a feeling of the direction the film is headed in.

I don't want to speak for Jeremy, Andre, Devin or anyone else, but I have to assume this is more or less the same basic "recipe" they're basing their expectations on. And that's FAR more informed and considered than the ridiculous mindset you characterized above.

I also don't think anyone is saying it's going to outright suck. They're just saying, keep your expectations grounded. What's so wrong with that?"

http://chud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107676&page=4

Click to expand...

Okay, so they know of previous stories, made inference on top of inference, heard "rumors" and are recalling information that is possibly a few times removed from the source.

Why is this opinion taken as gospel, then?

Have they seen (PERSONALLY SEEN) the finished cut, with all effects, John Williams's score--- EVERYTHING like it will be for us on May 22nd? No.

Why would his opinion, even then, be taken as gospel?

We're so close to the movie now, which is 19 years in the making, and we're getting anxious. Let's also add the lack of publicity and it is creating this void. We're allowing our imaginations to fill in the rest with every bitty bitty piece of information and it is not surprising we are turning to negative thoughts. "THERE'S NO GUN!!!!" "THIS MOVIE HAS THIS LINE IN IT!!!!"
There is a reason why negative posts and threads get more debated than "love" threads. And, sorry- don't think that CHUD is ignorant of this. Look at the post by them. They spend quite a long time just to say, "This is my opinion only, folks."

May 22nd. Let's debate sometime around 3:00 AM after everone is back from the midnight showings

If it's lacking in any way, why didn't they reshoot? They could've, easily. They did on LC.

Hopefully this is nonsense. I also have problems with the few people who have actually seen the movie running to diss it -- is that altogether believable? So much for loyalty. It wasn't a preview screening after all.

Dene said:

If it's lacking in any way, why didn't they reshoot? They could've, easily. They did on LC.

Click to expand...

Because Spielberg was perfectly happy with the film. He said as much: "The best news is that, when I saw the movie myself the first time, there was nothing I wanted to go back and shoot, nothing I wanted to reshoot, and nothing I wanted to add."

However, Spielberg isn't infallible. He's made some weak movies (though I'd argue he hasn't made a film that's a total wash since 2000). But at least we know he is happy with the finished product.

I think it was clear from the beginning not everyone would like INDY IV... and that has become especially clear to me from a lot of the spoiler information. No need to take these rumblings of KINGDOM being bad for anything more than they are: one person's opinion. If we start to hear a lot of people disliking it, I'll raise my eyebrows. For now, the info can't really sway me either way.