I'm curious: Anyone know the whole story of the Hasbro Indy line?

Wugmanmax

New member
I am going to be writing an article about the current Hasbro Indiana Jones toyline (just for my site) and I was wondering if any "insiders" would like to drop me a line to vent, inform, or otherwise drop some information on me.

I have an idea of what happened from what I've picked up in bits and pieces from this messageboard, but would like some hard truth if any of you in the know would like to share.

My primary goal is to approach it from a marketing perspective on what went right and what went wrong, with a bit of fan appreciation mixed in.

If any of you would like to toss info my way you can send it to: wug@10mfh.com, otherwise I'm just going to go forward on an opinion piece filled with conjecture. :gun:
 

Vance

New member
No one who really knows the whole story would be able to tell it to you. :p And, no, I'm not kidding. There's NDAs, non-comps, licensing issues, and all that stuff.
 
The Death of Indiana Jones: Why the 2008 Toyline Failed


In 2008 Hasbro fulfilled the dreams of many toy collectors by releasing Indiana Jones toys, which coincided with the theatrical release of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Instead of being a smash hit, the line lasted about a year and then was gone. This post attempts to explain just how a successful movie franchises of all time combined with one of the premier action figure making companies could have been a bust when it should have been a hit.

Personally, the Indiana Jones toy line produced by Hasbro during the release of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is very near and dear to my heart. The line was out during a time when my Grandfather was very sick. I remember visiting him in the hospital several times and after leaving each time I?d see ads for Crystal Skull at a nearby Burger King and I?d pick up a few figures at the Wal-mart next door. When many other collectors deride the line, I have a soft spot in my heart for it for emotional reasons. I also liked it because I love Indiana Jones, but I feel that there?s a bit of an underdog current riding through it too.

So with that being said, I decided to revive an article on my classic toy collecting site that is no longer up for historical purposes. Please keep in mind that there?s a good amount of conjecture, but it?s mixed in with observations made at the time as well as answers from Hasbro in their Q&A sessions.

1. Hasbro Oversold the Line to Retailers: The thinking had to be that Indiana Jones is a huge franchise that was dormant for some time, so collectors would go out in droves and buy toys based on the films. This was combined with the fact that kids would be seeing the new movie and would want toys based on it. So in turn, almost every store in the U.S. ordered loads of Indiana Jones related toys in expectation that they?d sell quickly. It was insane; there were entire four way aisle displays at Wal-Mart stuffed with figures in addition to dedicated hooks in the action figure aisle.

To contrast this, the 25th Anniversary G.I. Joe line that had premiered the year before had to prove they were worthy of some dedicated peg hooks through strong sales. Likewise, the Star Wars brand proved through six movies that it could sell through a large amount of figures during a theatrical release. Indiana Jones was given a huge amount of shelf space based purely on speculation.

2. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was not well Received: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull didn?t perform as well as expected. Sure it pulled some pretty big numbers at the box office, but there were so many people disappointed in the film that it didn?t carry over into as an enormous hunger for merchandise as was likely predicted.

3. The Cost of Oil: Oil prices soared to record highs at the time, so the figures debuted at a higher price that consumers had been used to and that price would only go up from that point.

4. Quality Issues: The sculpting on the first run of figures was simply terrible. Indiana Jones didn?t look like Harrison Ford in most of the figures, in fact he looked more like Clark Gable in at least one, which is pretty pathetic for a company who could perfectly capture Ford?s likeness in its Star Wars line. To make matters worse, not only was the Jones line made by the same company as the much superior Star Wars line, but it was made by the same team.

The biggest reason for these problems that Hasbro cited at the time was that a new Chinese factory was making the figures and they were taking awhile to catch up to the quality levels collectors demanded and expected in modern toys. This lower level of quality could have caused some collectors to not buy any of the first figures until they were ?fixed? in the later waves.

5. Poor Character Selection: The initial waves were overloaded with figures that collectors didn?t care about, especially since The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull underperformed (See issue: #2) and was unpopular with many adult movie-goers (i.e. collectors). Most collectors didn?t care about a Mutt Williams figure if they hated him in the the film (boy, did they ever), and even if they did like the movie, they wanted more figures from the original trilogy than what was being offered. Meanwhile, kids that were into the line could only have so many Mutt Williams figures at a time.

6. Vehicle and Playset Selection: The variety of Indy vehicles and playsets weren?t very attractive to collectors, perhaps due to Hasbro trying to milk more life out of the line while cashing in on Crystal Skull because it was ?hot?. Almost nobody wanted the Jungle Cutter (again, because of it?s association with Skull) and while the Temple of Akator playset was rather cool, it didn?t tie into any of the more beloved Indiana Jones films. While there were a few things here and there to appeal to fans of the original film or even cross over into the realm of those movies, like Indy on his horse and the transport truck, that was it. Collectors didn?t even get a WWII sidecar, which had been planned!

From a 2008 Hasbro Q&A:

IndianaJonesCollectors.com: Will we see a vehicle, deluxe set, or exclusive of Henry and Indiana Jones with the motorcycle and sidecar as in The Last Crusade?

Hasbro: Unfortunately, while a motorcycle with sidecar was planned, it will not make it out.

7. A Bad Mail-away: The mail-away incentive for buying the 3-3/4ths inch scale figures wasn?t very enticing. If you collected enough UPCs, you could send in for a Kingdom of the Crystal Skull alien on throne. With the movie proving to be a dud with many fans, nobody cared about an incentive like this. The 12 inch figure incentive was much better, since it was a 12 inch scale Ark of the Covenant from Raiders of the Lost Ark, however the bulk of boys toys at the time was in the smaller scale figures.

8. Competition: The line had to compete against Hasbro?s other 3-3/4th inch lines in a time when they were going very strong. G.I. Joe was super hot and with the increase of toys, many collectors might have had to cut back and be more picky when buying figures. A line consisting of bad sculpts and a selection of characters they cared nothing about might have helped pushed buying decisions away from the line.

9. Great Figures Came out too Late: Waves that contained action figures based on some of the most desired characters from the original Indiana Jones films came out very late and were impossible to find, due to the pegs being full of all the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull figures. Retailers had no incentive to order more figures when they were already overloaded with ones that had been collecting dust for several months.

Making matters worse was the fact that cases of new figures had older, unpopular figures mixed in. Take a Wave 4 case consisting of twelve figures for example:

(2) Raiders of the Lost Ark Indiana Jones (already overloaded on shelves and not a popular figure)
(1) Mutt Williams (jacket) with sword (no demand)
(2) Indiana Jones with coiled whip, pistol, rpg, in shirt (already overloaded on pegs)
(1) Indiana jones with sub-machine gun (not much demand for)
(1) Indiana Jones
(1) Chief Temple Guard
(1) Short Round
(1) Willie Scott
(1) Temple Guard
(1) Mola Ram

That?s six figures in a case of twelve that nobody wanted. And that?s just one case. A store in the best of circumstances gets several cases when a line is selling well. Open this case in a store that has pegs full of figures that aren?t moving and you have a problem.

Meanwhile, figures that fans really wanted badly were scheduled for later waves.

From a Hasbro Q&A in September of 2008:
Cool Toy Review: Is the German Mechanic figure shown in the second Raiders of the Lost Ark wave scheduled for January going to include any accessories (wrench, removable hat and shirt etc?)?

Also, would it be possible to see a picture of the stands that will be included in this wave as well as Mola Ram without his head dress?

Hasbro: Right now, we are not going to be revealing any more details or information on this wave due to the likelihood that it will not make it out.
In an interesting twist, Toht?s body (the Nazi whose head melts in Raiders), ended up being used for the body of a San Diego Comic Con exclusive Cobra Commander.

It wasn?t until 2011 that this final wave of figures was actually released. A collector?s dream come true, but it didn?t help the line from dying in 2008.

10. Improvement Came too Late: While sculpting greatly improved, it was too little too late. Combined with the overstock of old figures nobody wanted and the fact that most collectors were no longer invested in the line, Indiana Jones died in toy aisles.

While there were many factors at work here, I put most of the blame on Hasbro and this is coming from one of the biggest Hasbro boot lickers around. Indiana Jones toys should never of had a Star Wars film release level of presence at retail in the first place and the rest of the issues outlined above helped to create the perfect storm for the death of the line. If only Hasbro hadn?t put so much stock in the success of The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, we might have seen more Indiana Jones waves. Thankfully for fans of the line they managed to release the final wave, but it would have been nicer to have a little bit longer life in stores.
 
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Montana Smith

Active member
Interesting post, Herr Surgeon.

Rocket Surgeon said:
[7. A Bad Mail-away: The mail-away
incentive for buying the 3-3/4ths inch scale figures wasn?t very enticing. If you collected enough UPCs, you could send in for a Kingdom of the Crystal Skull alien on throne. With the movie proving to be a dud with many fans, nobody cared about an incentive like this.

I take issue with the reasoning behind this one. Personally I thought this was a good mail-away,though I was late to the party and picked my aliens up on the after market.

What's not to like about that big ol' alien as an action figure? And a nice throne thrown in as well.

A mail-away Toht or Mechanic would have been more welcome, but we got those figures in the end anyway. And if everything else had gone to plan, we'd have had them sooner. Whereas we'd have been unlikely to get an alien and throne at such a late date.

As for KOTCS being a dud, well that wasn't exactly the case. Its market was precisely those who were likely to buy action figures and send away for the extra one. KOTCS was the second wave, and paved the way for TLC and TOD.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Interesting article. Just to expand a little on what you wrote, I think the poor character selection at the outset really hurt the line.

Hasbro admitted they had Toht ready to go in the first wave, but decided to hold him (and others?) back. Instead, in addition to giving us two Mutts (which no one - adults or kids - wanted), we also got boring characters like Monkey Man and the Cairo Swordsman. Hey, I'm glad those characters exist and that I have them, but I'm a superfan and would have bought almost anything. To really grab the widest market, they should have put their best foot forward.

I will nitpick slightly the point about the quality control. Yes, the early figures had problems, but it was in the painting of the figures, not the sculpting. Generally, the sculpts were quite good. But, no, Hasbro has NEVER been good at capturing Harrison Ford's likeness, even with a dozen or two tries in the Star Wars line. Even the recently released Bespin Han in the Vintage line - an outstanding figure in most respects - has only a mediocre likeness.

The only figure that I think truly has a truly lousy headsculpt, sadly, is Spalko. Such a crushing blow to this lifelong Blanchett fan.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Lance Quazar said:
Interesting article. Just to expand a little on what you wrote, I think the poor character selection at the outset really hurt the line.

Hasbro admitted they had Toht ready to go in the first wave, but decided to hold him (and others?) back. Instead, in addition to giving us two Mutts (which no one - adults or kids - wanted), we also got boring characters like Monkey Man and the Cairo Swordsman. Hey, I'm glad those characters exist and that I have them, but I'm a superfan and would have bought almost anything. To really grab the widest market, they should have put their best foot forward.

I would have loved this line to run and run, to the point that, like it's much more popular cousin, Star Wars, we would have seen all manner of minor and background characters.

However, I think that the real failing is that for all his popularity Indy has much more of a niche market. I had the misfortune to hear one Star Wars-oriented child proclaim that "Indiana Jones is boring."

For a child looking at play-value, maybe the Indy movies are a little too mundane to re-enact.

For Star Wars Hasbro could look to a variety of alien races and robotic designs, and produce exotic vehicles and environments. By comparison the Indy line was sparse: a few vehicles and one environment of note. That leaves a lot to the imagination filling in the gaps.

Perhaps the Indy Lego line was more successful because it provided more in the way of enviroments in which to re-enact the scenes for which figures were created.

In consequence the Hasbro Indy line became a passing fad, which faded as excitement for KOTCS died away and children moved on to something else.
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Montana Smith said:
However, I think that the real failing is that for all his popularity Indy has much more of a niche market.

I agree. And it's always been that way. Though the movies were huge hits and were a large part of the cultural conversation in their respective years - especially "Raiders", obviously - the films were never merchandising juggernauts.

Indy is not "Star Wars" and doesn't fire the imaginations of the kids in the same way - even when kids enjoy the movies.

In the past, the toy lines were not successful. The original Raiders line was short lived. And this particular "Raiders" fanatic - who also had a very sizable Star Wars toy collection - didn't even know those figures existed back in the day.

The Temple of Doom line was cancelled before all the promised figures were released (those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.)

The character, the films, the franchise - it just isn't one that kids are interested in recreating.

There are no monsters, no lasers, no superpowers. Ultimately, Indy is just a couple of middle aged guys rolling around in the dirt.

I can see why the kids passed thirty years ago and even more why they passed today.
 
"2. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was not well Received: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull didn?t perform as well as expected. Sure it pulled some pretty big numbers at the box office, but there were so many people disappointed in the film that it didn?t carry over into as an enormous hunger for merchandise as was likely predicted."


There are too many contradictions in this "point"
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
featofstrength said:
"2. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was not well Received: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull didn?t perform as well as expected. Sure it pulled some pretty big numbers at the box office, but there were so many people disappointed in the film that it didn?t carry over into as an enormous hunger for merchandise as was likely predicted."


There are too many contradictions in this "point"

There are no contradictions. It made money. Lots of people went to see it. However, many of those people were disappointed. Those disappointed viewers were not inclined to buy merch.

Pretty straightforward.
 
Montana Smith said:
I take issue with the reasoning behind...
There are a couple I give creedence to, which i think is enough:

Hasbro Oversold the Line to Retailers

They have to make a profit though, right? Which makes this the killing stroke:

Poor Character Selection

They approched the case counts like it was Star Wars and Star Wars is sucessfull because of Star Wars. Indiana Jones has to be successfull because of Indiana Jones. So how do you sell Indiana Jones?

Vehicle and Playset Selection

We may romance the Well of Souls playset, but it sucked. The one greatest failing of every Indiana Jones toy line is the absence of:

The Flying Wing

For the single greatest designed imaginative piece in any of the films to be excluded from the line is unforgivable. It would have been/could have been the ultimate collectible, the centerpiece of ANY toy line.

But we got what we got, and to review the line based on it's own merits, it's still a failure because of:

Quality Issues

The cross eyed paints and bent accessories were enough for me to turn away, what child would care for it? The sculpts weren't bad, they weren't great, but they weren't bad. All of this is just compounded by:

The Cost of Oil and A Bad Mail-away

What kind of sick deluded ass hole makes the aliens mail order only? I could go on but I'm getting sick.

Really, figures that fans really wanted were used as leverage. The Indians should have come in a two pack, (and for the single figure price) and the playsets should have been "modular." Please tell me how cool it would have been if you could have bought additional railroad tracks to custom build your own Mine Cart Chase...hell I would have put it around the base of my...Christmas Tree!

The apathy towards the line killed it, plain and simple.
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Rocket Surgeon said:
Really, figures that fans really wanted were used as leverage. The Indians should have come in a two pack, (and for the single figure price) and the playsets should have been "modular." Please tell me how cool it would have been if you could have bought additional railroad tracks to custom build your own Mine Cart Chase...hell I would have put it around the base of my...Christmas Tree!

The apathy towards the line killed it, plain and simple.

Stop, you're killing me!

I'd love to have seen a mine cart and track. And 'rooms' that could be connected together to build bigger scenes: the Cachapoyan temple; The Raven; the Cairo bar; Map Room and Well of Souls, and so on.

For me that would be the stuff of dreams. Such a thing, however, might encourage me back to the world of model-making!
 

phantom train

New member
Great article, Rocket Surgeon. This is definitely the best analysis I've read of why the 2008 IJ toy/figure line failed. It's a no-brainer that the line wasn't handled well, but you really outline the reasons for this.

To add to your article:

- I actually liked the "Crystal Skull" mail-away toy and thought it was one of the better toys/figures in the line. However, I liked the KOTCS film as well, and I know I may have been in the minority here.

- It was extremely dissapointing that the TOD wave was almost impossible to find at retail. I never saw these, and since I don't like ordering online, was not able to get them. A darn shame, since from all accounts & pictures these figures were superb.

- Going along with the above, I was also very dissapointed that the highly-anticipated 2nd ROTLA wave was not available at retail at all.

I've said it before on this board - Hasbro should have handled this line like the very successful 25th anniversary G.I. Joe line (from 2007-2009), instead of treating it like a blockbuster summer movie line. I.e., the figures should have been more collector-oriented than kid-oriented, and should have been sold in much smaller quantities at retail.

Or, Hasbro could've gone the direct market route, i.e. just selling the figures at Local Comic stores (that carried figures), like the DC Direct and/or Marvel Select line. IMHO, this would have ensured that the line was directed to the collectors who would be primarily interested in these toys in the first place.

Or, Hasbro could have sold the line exclusively online. To use an example, The Masters of the Universe re-booted toyline from the early 2000's didn't do well at retail and was eventually cancelled; this is despite the fact that the figures, overall, looked great. However, like IJ, the toys did have a following and so a couple of years ago, Mattell started the line up again & it's sold exclusively on the Internet.
 
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phantom train said:
Great article, Rocket Surgeon. This is definitely the best analysis I've read of why the 2008 IJ toy/figure line failed. It's a no-brainer that the line wasn't handled well, but you really outline the reasons for this.
Thanks but the original is not mine...

My feelings are sketched out a bit in Post 11, but the original article, which you can jump to with the link was as you say well outlined, if not exactly in the order I thought right.
neverAcquiesce said:
Sooo...when's the last time someone found a pegged figure at retail? Are they still floating around out there?
Found a Willie which I begrudgingly forked over ten bucks for a few months ago...the same Mom and Pop have the Jungle Cutter for $35...

I tried to talk them down, but the stood fast.
Montana Smith said:
Stop, you're killing me!

I'd love to have seen a mine cart and track. And 'rooms' that could be connected together to build bigger scenes: the Cachapoyan temple; The Raven; the Cairo bar; Map Room and Well of Souls, and so on.

For me that would be the stuff of dreams. Such a thing, however, might encourage me back to the world of model-making!
How simple would it be to make a couple Stone Block Tombs out of which each of the films temples could have been created, or simple used to customize your own?

A three foot long Flying Wing? That bastard wold have sold out so fast...and I would have two at bare minimum.
 
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Rocket Surgeon said:
Found a Willie which I begrudgingly forked over ten bucks for a few months ago...the same Mom and Pop have the Jungle Cutter for $35...

I tried to talk them down, but the stood fast.

Those bastards. :gun:

Nothing recently at a chain store, though? I know that article said the last batch was released this year but I don't recall seeing anything anywhere.
 
neverAcquiesce said:
Those bastards. :gun:

Nothing recently at a chain store, though? I know that article said the last batch was released this year but I don't recall seeing anything anywhere.

They would have bargan binned them long ago. I think there were some stragglers at a "Party City" and I found the Titanium Vehicles at a dollar store for three bucks...
 
Rocket Surgeon said:
Bait and Switch...don't think I didn't consider using that priceing gun left on a shelf!

Three bucks was still a good price for the tanks...

Price check in the dollar store! I'm sure the employees looooove that joke.
 
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