Real Archaeologists' opinions of Indiana Jones

IndySeven

New member
I don't know any archaeologists, and I'm not one either, but I defintely don't consider Indy a "grave robber". He's simply finding artifacts and bringing them to museums so that the whole world can see them. I'd probably do the same thing if given a chance!:)

As Indy would say, "It belongs in a museum!"(y)
 

indy93

New member
i know i am not an archaeologist but i am a mega history geek and i think indys great and with the KOTCS coming out it should get more people interested in history. archaeology can be like indy if you put your mind to it, such as you could discover a lost mesoamerican temple or find the ark of the covenant.:whip:
 

ValenciaGrail

New member
Indiana Jones: archaeology :: Anakin Skywalker: Astronaut

You said it, Eric Solo, and I was going to post the same article?.:)

Sorry, but real archaeology bears about as much resemblance to Indiana Jones as the real space program does to Star Wars.

Real archaeologists don?t use whips, desecrate tombs, or demolish temples while acquiring a single golden idol. It took years to remove and catalog all the contents of the King Tut tomb. Indy Jones, however, would have looked like the crooks in ?Home Alone?, pulling items into a sack using a crowbar.

Similarly, there is no sound in space, ships flying in a vacuum don?t bank when they turn, and all planets don?t have the same gravity and breathable air.

Indiana Jones is a treasure hunter at best, grave robber at worst.

I love Indiana Jones and I love Star Wars, but they are stories and escapism, not an accurate account of what it is to be an archaeologist or an astronaut. They don?t pretend to be.

What academic value the IJ legendarium does have is as a springboard to real history. I am using them in this way with my own kids.

There really WAS an Ark of the Covenant a Holy Cup, and there is some archaeological basis that they both survive to this day

The value of archaeology is in learning about past cultures through tangible physical evidence?.e.g. the Thuggee Cult was real, did perform human sacrifice, etc?.

The YIJ sequence, of course, teaches history via Indy?s Forrest Gump encounters with real historical figures and events.
 

ValenciaGrail

New member
ford elected to board of Archaeological Institute of America.

Well, someone who matters in the world of Archaeology thinks Harrison has done well by them :confused:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356183,00.html

I still think this is rather like having Kelly Mcgillis give her "expert" testmony to Congress on a Farm bill...because she once played a farmer in a movie.

I like to jump around and play air guitar, it doesn't make me a musician ....
 

adventure_al

New member
Vance said:
Oh, I think there is plenty to be found, to be sure... Troy, after all, was only found and confirmed a few years ago. Sodom and Gammohra were only documented last year.

anyone got any good links to some info on this? i'd love to read a bit more.
 

China Jim

New member
Real Archaeoloists opinions of Indiana Jones

Go to the Lucas Indy site they have a good spot concerning this subject. It is located under characters it on the part about Indy :whip: :gun:
 

adam_jones

New member
An Archaeologists opinion

I am an archaeologist, I have litterally just graduated university and am now out in the wide world of archaeology. During my experience with professors and visiting archaeologists I always asked them what got you into archaeology and what do you think about Indy. The older ones hadn't even heard of him but after explaining what he is/does they weren't impressed, some of the younger ones enjoy the movie but agree that Indy's methods are sub-par (the amount of times I've heard people joke about "why he doesn't follow PPG16"). With the recent release I organised a trip for all the archaeologists to see it on thursday, many came and the unanimous decision was Indy rocks but real archaeology is not like that however ofcourse its not, it would be no fun watching Indy trowl dirt for 2 hours only to find pot fragments then go home, we love the adventure and I know it was Indy who inspired me to do archaeology.
Adam
You wana be a good archaeologist..you gotta get out of the library-Indiana Jones:whip:
 

Athenee

New member
Indy always reacted...

Indy always reacted to events, and I don't mean that in a bad way.

Nurhachi1991 said:
(snipped for brevity) ...he made things up as he went along and half the time he got forced into looking for the object:
like with the ark the goverment hired him;
the stones he stumbled upon the village by accident
the grail he was trying to save his father
the real expeditions he went on, like when he found the idol, were carefully planned; he had guides and proper equipment just like a real archeologist

In RLA, the government hired him because they knew the Nazis were looking for the Ark; unfortunately, even in RLA, he was reacting against Belloq to get the idol, and he still lost it. Interestingly, a scene cut from RLA shows Belloq and Indy in a Cairo bar (when Indy thinks Marion has died), and Belloq tells him that he lost the idol because the Hovitos weren't going to let him take it from them.

In TOD, it was an accident, but Indy discovered that the regent and child rajah at Pankot were using the stones for evil ends (besides kidnapping the village children);

In LC, he was hoodwinked by Donovan to look for his father (because 'Dad' had sent Indy his Grail Diary to keep it out of the hands of the Nazis), because his father was searching for the Grail and disappeared;

In KCS, Mutt convinces him to look for Prof. Oxley and his mom by showing the letter (not the kid's fault he didn't know his mom's real name, or that he didn't have the experience to guess the kidnappers allowed her to mail that letter to get Indy to do their dirty-work for them).

Which makes me wonder: what the heck? All those other archaeologists can't research their way out of a paper bag?! Indy's work is less reacting than deduction, which makes him an archaeological Sherlock Holmes.

Again, in KCS, Indy acted to prevent the Russians from using the Crystal Skulls for their own evil purposes (not that it mattered, 'cus the Skulls had their own plans...) (and to clear his name after that debacle at Hanger 51).

The implication in each instance is that a 'real' archaeologist has to have the education, the database (knowledge) to decipher confused stuff (Grail Diary, Ox's letter), and that the 'bad' archaeologists (Belloq, Nazis, Schneider, Spalko) didn't pay their dues by learning the basics--and they were searching with the wrong "intention" (power and profit, not knowledge). Both Ilsa and Mac died because they sought profit, not knowledge.

BTW, the history Channel has a great documentary running this month, titled "Indiana Jones and the Ultimate Quest," where a number of professional archaeologists credit RLA for igniting their interest in the profession, along with first-hand accounts of where their work differs and resembles Indy's movies. Here's the link:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?episodeId=295858&action=detail

(Rats! Sorry, there are no repeats currently showing; there's no DVD listed, but I've sent THC an email asking if/when they'll feature it for sale on DVD. They got permissions from Lucasfilm to include excerpts of the movies, maybe LFL will box it with IJKCS when it comes out on DVD)
 

NYCGoldenIdol

New member
Athenee said:
Indy always reacted to events, and I don't mean that in a bad way.



In RLA, the government hired him because they knew the Nazis were looking for the Ark; unfortunately, even in RLA, he was reacting against Belloq to get the idol, and he still lost it. Interestingly, a scene cut from RLA shows Belloq and Indy in a Cairo bar (when Indy thinks Marion has died), and Belloq tells him that he lost the idol because the Hovitos weren't going to let him take it from them.

In TOD, it was an accident, but Indy discovered that the regent and child rajah at Pankot were using the stones for evil ends (besides kidnapping the village children);

In LC, he was hoodwinked by Donovan to look for his father (because 'Dad' had sent Indy his Grail Diary to keep it out of the hands of the Nazis), because his father was searching for the Grail and disappeared;

In KCS, Mutt convinces him to look for Prof. Oxley and his mom by showing the letter (not the kid's fault he didn't know his mom's real name, or that he didn't have the experience to guess the kidnappers allowed her to mail that letter to get Indy to do their dirty-work for them).

Which makes me wonder: what the heck? All those other archaeologists can't research their way out of a paper bag?! Indy's work is less reacting than deduction, which makes him an archaeological Sherlock Holmes.

Again, in KCS, Indy acted to prevent the Russians from using the Crystal Skulls for their own evil purposes (not that it mattered, 'cus the Skulls had their own plans...) (and to clear his name after that debacle at Hanger 51).

The implication in each instance is that a 'real' archaeologist has to have the education, the database (knowledge) to decipher confused stuff (Grail Diary, Ox's letter), and that the 'bad' archaeologists (Belloq, Nazis, Schneider, Spalko) didn't pay their dues by learning the basics--and they were searching with the wrong "intention" (power and profit, not knowledge). Both Ilsa and Mac died because they sought profit, not knowledge.

BTW, the history Channel has a great documentary running this month, titled "Indiana Jones and the Ultimate Quest," where a number of professional archaeologists credit RLA for igniting their interest in the profession, along with first-hand accounts of where their work differs and resembles Indy's movies. Here's the link:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?episodeId=295858&action=detail

(Rats! Sorry, there are no repeats currently showing; there's no DVD listed, but I've sent THC an email asking if/when they'll feature it for sale on DVD. They got permissions from Lucasfilm to include excerpts of the movies, maybe LFL will box it with IJKCS when it comes out on DVD)


Yeah, I saw that Ultimate Quest documentary weeks ago and it was really interesting to watch.
 

Athenee

New member
NYCGoldenIdol said:
Yeah, I saw that Ultimate Quest documentary weeks ago and it was really interesting to watch.

That gnashing sound you hear is my teeth; the History Channel does not (as of right now) have that documentary available to buy (or I'd be ordering it right now!).

The production company that filmed IJATUQ has also filmed a number of other documentaries for THC, including "The Science of Star Wars" and a few comics superhero ones. The fact they've had access to Lucasfilms is encouraging, because George (and Steven) may allow them to release it--or they (GL/SS) may include it in a super-duper DVD release for the ultra-completists amongst us. I will send a letter to the production company to find out what's up with a DVD release, and keep folks here posted on any news I receive.
 

PloKoon

New member
Well, it is quite obvious that when Indy was created, the intent was not to show a typical archeologist on a dig. It was to show a typical archaeologist on a dig with bad/good luck. Imitating the life of Indy would not be so hard believe it or not. You would not be able to call yourself and archaeologist, you would have to have tons of money, enough to travel and set you for the rest of your life, and you would have to have the will to put the value of lost items about to be snatched and stolen at a higher value than your own life. I don't think such people exist, if so, there would be more people helping out wildlife, homeless, etc.
 

China Jim

New member
Indy as real orthodox archeologist?

Was Indy a real archeologist? Well academically speaking the answer would be yes if you go by the disjointed movies and the series of paperbacks that as of this time getting reissued the answer is yes. According to the movies and I am including YIJC Indy earned his Ba either in archeology or history from the university of Chicago now the series never did go into whether or not he met Abner their during his time and started the love affair with Marion. That could explain why he left for England to avoid jail :D Now we have to switch to the books that covers his life up to the death of his wife then after that he has earned his Ma in archeology or history and is teaching it until his return to America and running into Marcus Brody at this point we leave orthodoxy behind and Indy enters into the realm of the tomb raider or grave robber. Now first off remember the era 1920s-1930s Indy is teaching at a medium to large sized college Marshall to be exact well Lo and behold Indy's friend Marcus is running the museum well during this era museums reputations could be made or broken by the quality of its collection, well along comes Indy and I am sure Marcus Brody saw his chance to increase the museums standing and knowing what Indy's rep was Marcus says "relic" and off goes Indy like a blood hound to get it so yes during the era of Indiana Jones a archeologist arch type such as Indy could have existed but in our day and age with all the antiquties police and the like a reputable archeologist would not risk his reputation and of course prison time to to do like Indy does well thats my two cents on it
 

swarbs

New member
Im an honours student of arcy at university of western australia, been on a few excavations
all the males have obviously seen Indy and were inspired, but the chicks in our class for some reason were inspired by Stargate the TV show (??) never seen it myself. Alot of people were also inspired by that brit show Time Team.
the lecturers/archaeologists are a bit ho-hum about indy. just kinda laugh about it
 

Montana Smith

Active member
From the magazine Cosmos: The Science of Everything:


Indiana Jones: ?nightmare? archaeologist

23 May 2008

Agence France-Presse


Indiana Jones may provide great entertainment but he's an ethical nightmare as an archaeologist, says the head of the World Archaeological Congress.



SYDNEY: Indiana Jones may provide great entertainment but he?s an ethical nightmare as an archaeologist, the head of the World Archaeological Congress said today.

Professor Claire Smith from Australia?s Newcastle University said the fourth instalment in the adventure series, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, would spur interest in archaeology around the globe.

But she said if the character played by Hollywood veteran Harrison Ford were a real archaeologist, his methods would face stern criticism from colleagues.

?Treats human remains as weapons?

?In pursuit of ?fortune and glory? Jones ignores international treaties, treats human remains as weapons, and destroys archaeological sites in a bid to escape from potential entombment, and other worrisome possibilities,? Smith told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. ?Archaeologists are concerned with preserving the past, not making a profit from it, and sometimes Jones seems more finely tuned to the commercial value of an artefact than the information it can give us about past peoples.?

?This impression is reinforced by occasional references to him as a grave robber,? she said. Adding that the Indiana Jones films contained an imperialist assumption that artefacts in far-flung parts of the world needed ?protection? supplied by the West.

?The native people who hinder Jones in Crystal Skull are, in fact, descendants of the people who made the artefacts that Jones seeks and the contemporary cultural custodians of the site,? she said.

Adding glamour to archaeology

However, Smith noted that there were benefits from the Stephen Spielberg-directed films. ?The great value of Indiana Jones for the archaeological community is that he makes a pedantic and exacting science appear exciting,? she said.

She also conceded that the hair-raising adventures experienced by Jones were not entirely the stuff of fiction: ?One of my colleagues was held at gunpoint while his four-wheel drive was used for a bank robbery in New Guinea,? she said.

?Another had his life threatened while recording graffiti in cells used to house political activists in Argentina,? said Smith. ?Others have needed armed guards while they excavated mass graves near Bosnian villages that still housed the murderers.?


http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/indiana-jones-nightmare-archaeologist/
 

Matt R

New member
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/indiana-jones-nightmare-archaeologist/[/QUOTE]

Interesting editorial however I feel it has way over-analyzed the spirit of the films. Clearly any comparison between a fictional 1930's-40's archeologist and modern archeological techniques is not going to work.
As has been said earlier on in this thread by Vance & others, back then the world & attitudes were different & the films try to reflect a little of this.
Academia can be pedantic...and sometimes rightly so but let's just enjoy the films for what they were intended for, entertainment & escapism without trying to contextualize them too much. ;)
 

Montana Smith

Active member
Matt R said:
Interesting editorial however I feel it has way over-analyzed the spirit of the films. Clearly any comparison between a fictional 1930's-40's archeologist and modern archeological techniques is not going to work.
As has been said earlier on in this thread by Vance & others, back then the world & attitudes were different & the films try to reflect a little of this.
Academia can be pedantic...and sometimes rightly so but let's just enjoy the films for what they were intended for, entertainment & escapism without trying to contextualize them too much. ;)

Indeed. I prefer Indy as the roguish tomb raider and vandal who occasionally masquerades as a professor of archaeology (in return for a regular income while waiting for good leads on things to steal). ;)
 
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