Commies, I HATE these guys...

reinthal

New member
Actually, I've thought about this a bit more and while the term Commies certainly fits the era, and while it might well work still today with American audiences (not sure about that though - guys get back to me on that one) it will, as Finn says, still smack of McCarthyism :eek: which to a lot of the rest of the world (as well as to a decent chunk of American audiences I guess) was a pretty vile era in US politics. We had a mini-version of it here in Australia too, though the Communist Party was never banned like it was in the USA.

(My grandfather, who was what we call a "wharfie" i.e. a dockside worker, told me that back in the day his trade union was a Communist trade union, whatever that entails. He didn't tell me much, but one thing I remember is that he said that the union achieved a lot of good things, such as teaching men how to read.)

So I certainly wouldn't want to tar Indy with a McCarthyist brush! That would make him seem too right-wing, to me at least. Calling them "the Russians" flags that they are an outside power posing a threat to the US and the rest of the Western world, which is exactly what they were in the film.
 
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reinthal

New member
IndyBr said:
Half the world? There are only four or five states today that declares thenselves as communists.
I know about China, Cuba and Vietnam... but I'm sure there's at least one or two more.

Edit: Ok, a quick search and I've found out there's only four states with self-declared communist governments. China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam.

You missed the most obvious one: North Korea! :whip:
 

IndyBr

Member
reinthal said:
You missed the most obvious one: North Korea! :whip:

Yeah, that's what I thought too. But apparently they aren't officially communists anymore.

After his death, Kim Il-sung was declared the country's Eternal President. Juche became the official state ideology, replacing Marxism-Leninism, when the country adopted a new constitution in 1972. With the dissolution of the Soviet Union in December 1991, North Korea lost a major trading partner and strategic ally. Combined with a series of natural disasters, this led to the North Korean famine, which lasted from 1994 to 1998 and killed an estimated 800,000 to 3,500,000 people. North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il adopted Songun, or "military-first" policy in order to strengthen the country and its government. In 2009, references to Communism (Chosŏn'gŭl: 공산주의) were systematically removed from the country's constitution and legal documents altogether.

But yeah, this "Juche" ideology share some similarities to communism.
 
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Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Pretty sure Indy said "Reds" at least once in KOTCS.

And the word "Germans" was tossed about in RAIDERS a handful of times -

"I knew the Germans would hire you...." etc.

But, during the Cold War, "Russians", "Soviets" and "Communists" were used pretty interchangeably, as "Germans" and "Nazis" was during the war.
 

reinthal

New member
IndyBr said:
But yeah, this "Juche" ideology share some similarities to communism.

Interesting. Did not know that. :hat:

Sounds like Juche is just the same as North Korea's former communist ways but adapted to the fact that the whole country is pretty much completely isolated internationally, hence the whole self-sufficiency aspect. It's like they decided "hey, they're isolating us, and there's not too much we can do about it, so we'll add complete self-sufficiency as a nation as a core component of our ideology and rename it so people can stand behind it".

OK back to topic!
 
Lance Quazar said:
Pretty sure Indy said "Reds" at least once in KOTCS.
Where?!
Lance Quazar said:
And the word "Germans" was tossed about in RAIDERS a handful of times
A few, but in reference to archaeology, communiques. Point being the negative connotation given his captors/murderers as Russians and not a single mention of Commies...or Reds, (I think).

The use of Nazis emphasised threat, certainly Commie would have played better in places like: We have to get Ox, recover the skull and to get to Akator before the Russians.

Instead they gave "Ruskie" to Marion...:sick:
Lance Quazar said:
But, during the Cold War, "Russians", "Soviets" and "Communists" were used pretty interchangeably, as "Germans" and "Nazis" was during the war.
But the idea is to imply threat,(cause they sure as hell didn't show it!) and not drag an entire culture into it...

IndyBr said:
Indy is a lot softer in KOTCS, he killed the first Cemitery Warrior.

The Cemetary "WARRIOR" was the ONLY person Indy killed in the flick...that is if the poison was on both sides of the dart, and it was lethal not just incapacitating...
 
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IndyBr said:
"After all those years we spent spying on the reds." :hat:
Ah, yes...thanks.

Still, "Commies" remains the dropped ball...

Once again Indy kills a third world (as in undeveloped country) peasant graveyard ninja guardian but after his near death momemnt with a bloodthirsty psycho "Red" (;) ) they left Commie on the table...

No one else sees this?:rolleyes:
 

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
Maybe Indy is just enlightened and educated enough to know that the ideology of communism is not evil and is not directly responsible for the crimes of the Soviet Union.

He did watch Lenin speak, after all.

And, really, even though KOTCS was a period piece, the word "commies" is just so silly.
 

IndyBr

Member
Lance Quazar said:
Maybe Indy is just enlightened and educated enough to know that the ideology of communism is not evil and is not directly responsible for the crimes of the Soviet Union.

My thoughts exactly.
 

reinthal

New member
Lance Quazar said:
Maybe Indy is just enlightened and educated enough to know that the ideology of communism is not evil and is not directly responsible for the crimes of the Soviet Union.

He did watch Lenin speak, after all.

And, really, even though KOTCS was a period piece, the word "commies" is just so silly.

Lance, you've got it in one! (y)
 
Lance Quazar said:
Maybe Indy is just enlightened and educated enough to know that the ideology of communism is not evil and is not directly responsible for the crimes of the Soviet Union.

He did watch Lenin speak, after all.
I guess you could say that about Socialism not being evil...but all in all it was the Communist Party that exploited the ideal, like the National Socialist Party, right?

Checks and balances being what they are, or actually were...

Or you could say Indy had become a pacifist because of his increasing irrelevance, the movie certainly supports it...

Ultimately "Russians" cuts too broad a swath...if Mac were Russian it might have made a nice moment for him to hit Indy in the arm and balk at his generalization.

Lance Quazar said:
And, really, even though KOTCS was a period piece, the word "commies" is just so silly.
I can understand where you might see it that way, and the way he declares "part time" in the film I wouldn't blame you.

Though I KNOW he could pull it off in a more convincing manner.

I just know it...
 

Kooshmeister

New member
I think he said "Russians!" because they were speaking Russian, implying that up until then, he had no idea who had abducted him. It wouldn't make sense for him to automatically assume any Russian speaker to be a Communist. Only as the situation wore on and Indy start calling them things like "comrade" insultingly.

Even then, it isn't until Spalko appears that it becomes obvious they're Communists, but Indy's insults come after seeing the dead MP's they shot so he's understandably upset. But his exclamation of "Russians!" comes before he sees the MP corpses getting dragged past, and after two of the "American" soldiers starts yelling in Russian. He's merely exclaiming in bewilderment that they're Russians, still trying to get a handle on the situation.

Or, because not every American audience knows what the Russian language sounds like, and so Indiana is just stating the obvious for audience benefit.
 
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