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Old 12-13-2009, 06:10 AM   #51
Mickiana
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You guys are refusing to see my point. No probs.
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:58 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mickiana
You guys are refusing to see my point. No probs.

I see your point, and I fully understand where you are coming from... but what’s being confused here I think is the differing opinions on the criteria for “plausibility” and that of the tonality of a movie. For example, I find the premise of Raiders just as implausible (if not more so) as KOTCS (as I personally believe the existence of extraterrestrial life is far more probable/logical than that of ‘God’)... However, I do think there was a step change after Raiders to make the set pieces in the subsequent movies more spectacular… and by definition those set pieces become more intricate, elaborate and contrived (and dare I say it... predictable).

So if you were to ask me what I’d find more believable? The possibility of surviving a nuclear explosion or the power of a religious relic I’m confident doesn’t exist? I’d have to say the former. If you were to ask which scenes are less over elaborate/less complex (and possibly better conceived), I’d say Raiders every time. But more “plausibility” doesn’t automatically equate to better.

Ultimately (for me) it’s what engages at a conceptual/imaginative level, and what entertains at a viewing level… be that the truck chase, the rope bridge, the tank chase, Ants! Or ‘Doom Town’. They are all good IMHO.
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:17 PM   #53
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I don't think Indy and Elsa could have survived the escape from the Venice catacombs. The "way out" was never even shown on screen and it was a lazy cheat of an escape.

At least the nuked fridge was clever and was grounded in 1950s "pull a mattress over your body" type advice.
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:06 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Mickiana
You guys are refusing to see my point. No probs.

I understand your point, Mickiana, and I respect your right to view the films the way you do. We all see things differently, some more than others, and as I've written before, a film is art, it's a product of imagination. If we all liked and agreed with the imagination of every film maker that would be worrying, as it would imply we were either all clones, or had been brain-washed prior to viewing the film. In a case like this all views are valid.

However, based on science, if an idea is remotely possible, given a sequence of events, it is also plausible. In the real world there would be so many factors to consider in nuking the fridge, so many things that could go wrong, that it is unlikely that a human would survive such an event. However, based upon the presmise that Indy has unnatural luck, and a gift for survival, something that in the real world would be only remotely plausible, becomes far more possible.

If I didn't think Indy could survive the fridge incident, then it would make the rest of the film pointless to me. If KOTCS becomes pointless, then I am left wondering which parts of the story (that is, the four films) I accept or ignore. Because I am lead by Lucas' four-film vision, which, to me, provides a rounded story (with inter-dimensional beings explaining earlier inexplicable events - light trap, Ark, Grail etc), I have to look beyond the absurd and accept that Indy did it - as he did many other outrageous things.

Whilst it's reassuring to find agreement on a subject, I understand that it's not always going to be possible.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:03 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Montana Smith
If I didn't think Indy could survive the fridge incident, then it would make the rest of the film pointless
Which is the biggest problem with the film...
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:53 AM   #56
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You see, Indy is a guy we can relate to, because he's still human. In the first three he gets shot (a small flesh wound), bashed to within an inch of his life and even falls under the spell of black magic. He seems susceptible. Rolling out of the fridge without any apparent damage takes him beyond being susceptible. It's too unrealistic. That's what I've been meaning to say all along: Indy's adventures are all a bit unreal, but the fridge scene is too unrealistic. It's a matter of degree. The criticisms I have of KotCS I also apply to some scenes in, say, ToD where the mine cart shoots through the air to land perfectly on the tracks again. That would have to be impossible. ToD was cartoonish because of this type of impossible feat. But the criticism is a very personal one. I didn't like the differing standards between Raiders and its successors. But I am howling at the moon and cursing the stars here: I've always wanted another Raiders, without it being Raiders of course. Having watched Secret of the Incas I realised Lucas borrowed from it for the making of Raiders. I don't mind that at all. He was inspired by it and then he did the best thing - he bettered it. As Harold Bloom says, plagiarism is only a legal issue. For the artist it's necessary and he must try to usurp previous success and Lucas did that with Raiders. The sequels don't match Raiders' superior quality. They are more aligned with achieving contractual obligation. Harsh I know, but that's how I see it.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:37 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mickiana
You see, Indy is a guy we can relate to, because he's still human. In the first three he gets shot (a small flesh wound), bashed to within an inch of his life and even falls under the spell of black magic. He seems susceptible. Rolling out of the fridge without any apparent damage takes him beyond being susceptible. It's too unrealistic. That's what I've been meaning to say all along: Indy's adventures are all a bit unreal, but the fridge scene is too unrealistic. It's a matter of degree. The criticisms I have of KotCS I also apply to some scenes in, say, ToD where the mine cart shoots through the air to land perfectly on the tracks again. That would have to be impossible. ToD was cartoonish because of this type of impossible feat. But the criticism is a very personal one. I didn't like the differing standards between Raiders and its successors. But I am howling at the moon and cursing the stars here: I've always wanted another Raiders, without it being Raiders of course. Having watched Secret of the Incas I realised Lucas borrowed from it for the making of Raiders. I don't mind that at all. He was inspired by it and then he did the best thing - he bettered it. As Harold Bloom says, plagiarism is only a legal issue. For the artist it's necessary and he must try to usurp previous success and Lucas did that with Raiders. The sequels don't match Raiders' superior quality. They are more aligned with achieving contractual obligation. Harsh I know, but that's how I see it.

I know what you're getting at, Mickiana. Raiders set the standard for the films that followed, because it was the first time we see Indy. Audiences in 1981 wouldn't be sure that they would see the character return (film-makers don't always make good on their intentions!)

On the face of it Raiders is a classic adventure story, with a supernatural twist. It went down the cliffhanger route, as it was inspired by the 1930s and 1940s serials. The cliffhanger was famous for creating situations that were seemingly impossible to escape from. The more times you do it it's inevitable that the situations will get more and more extreme.

I wrote earlier that the series was a virtual live-action cartoon. In a cartoon absurd things happen that the viewer accepts as they know they're watching a cartoon, rather than reality. All the Indy films are larger than life. My first realization of this, at a young age, was watching Indy being dragged behind the truck. You might call it my personal 'fridge moment'. It's a thought that has always remained with me: why wasn't Indy badly wounded, or at least get his clothes ripped?

To survive the truck dragging sequence, the stuntman had to have protective padding, and a trench was dug under the path of the truck so the stuntman would fit safely beneath it. Indy couldn't have done this manoeuvre in real-life. Realizing this didn't spoil my enjoyment of the film, but it made me think about how it was that Indy could get away with it. My answer was to see that things operate differently in the world Indy occupies - and the biggest factor in all his escapes was luck.

Once I began thinking about plausibility, I thought of the darts in the temple. These were intended to prevent a warrior from reaching the Idol, unless he figured out how to cross the room without setting them off. Indy races across the tiles on his return journey and the darts fly at him. Either this was a useless trap, or Indy was lucky not to be hit.

Other events also ask us to suspend belief, or to find alternative reasons: the Hovitos failing to catch or hit Indy; the lack of smoke in the burning Raven (most films do away with smoke when they show room fires, since smoke will kill a person before the fire itself); Marion's long fall into the Well of Souls; Indy pushing over the statue; Indy getting punched in the face by the mechanic, but not getting a broken nose.

I found the submarine ride to be one of the more plausible incidents. The U-Boat was unlikely to submerge, as it uses more fuel underwater. As long as Indy can survive the cold he can remain alive.

The mine cart chase was initially intended to be in Raiders, so the portrayal of it might have made Raiders even more cartoon-like. As it was, the scene was left for Temple of Doom.

To accept Raiders, you have to accept that Indy's world is different to ours. More is possible, which means greater scope for adventure and incident. In our world it may be remotely possible to survive in a lead-lined fridge, if it was structurally sound; if it was well-sealed; if the door could be held firmly closed; if the blast blew it away before the thermal radiation; if it could absorb the heaving landings, protecting Indy inside.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Looking at pictures of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and the film of the test explosions, and reading reports from those test, some things just seem to defy belief. Walls and trees that remain standing, whilst around them people were incinerated. The safe that remains intact with its contents.

If Raiders is plausible, then so is the fridge. Whether or not, as a viewer, you are willing to accept the plausibility is a matter of personal opinion. It's not much different to accepting the plausibility that the opened Ark displayed the power of God, or power derived from another source (I have always accepted the latter, since I don't accept the existence of God, even in Indiana Jones!)
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:57 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
You see, Indy is a guy we can relate to, because he's still human. In the first three he gets shot (a small flesh wound), bashed to within an inch of his life and even falls under the spell of black magic. He seems susceptible. Rolling out of the fridge without any apparent damage takes him beyond being susceptible. It's too unrealistic. That's what I've been meaning to say all along: Indy's adventures are all a bit unreal, but the fridge scene is too unrealistic. It's a matter of degree. The criticisms I have of KotCS I also apply to some scenes in, say, ToD where the mine cart shoots through the air to land perfectly on the tracks again. That would have to be impossible. ToD was cartoonish because of this type of impossible feat. But the criticism is a very personal one. I didn't like the differing standards between Raiders and its successors. But I am howling at the moon and cursing the stars here: I've always wanted another Raiders, without it being Raiders of course. Having watched Secret of the Incas I realised Lucas borrowed from it for the making of Raiders. I don't mind that at all. He was inspired by it and then he did the best thing - he bettered it. As Harold Bloom says, plagiarism is only a legal issue. For the artist it's necessary and he must try to usurp previous success and Lucas did that with Raiders. The sequels don't match Raiders' superior quality. They are more aligned with achieving contractual obligation. Harsh I know, but that's how I see it.

Completely disagree with this point. TOD established Indy as a 'superhero' (which is one of my biggest gripes). Sure he got cuts and bruises during the movie, but he could just about survive everything and anything (yes even jumping from a plane at a 1000 ft). If your argument is that only Raiders keeps the right side of plausibility, I may agree. However, if your position is that KOTCS is the only "implausible" Indy movie, I would have to question that judgement.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:47 AM   #59
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That's the problem with analyzing the films too deeply, Darth. Lucas set out to make a spectacle for viewing pleasure. But, what he did was create something with far more depth and longevity.

As fans we enjoy studying them in depth, and in doing so, at places like this, we discover many other things that we never expected to. The original film which set the standard, didn't set out to be what it became - it set out as a wild, death-defying adventure, paying homage to previous credibility-shattering series. What made it last as a series is more than just action: it's the character of Indy who makes it more interesting for us to follow the adventure. Since we care about Indy the character we care more whether he survives or not. There are plenty of action movies where I couldn't care whether the 'hero' lived or died, since they are far more cardboard in character.

I think it's because fans want to believe in Indy, that they also want to believe in all the physics and logic that come into play during an Indy movie. But, there will always be that homage to the past, to those incredible escapes that monochrome heroes were faced with at the end of each episode, and miraculously escaped from at the beginning of the next. Unless you accept this format, then Indy won't work, especially KOTCS, where the format reached a new 'explosive' cliffhanger.

To place an Indiana Jones film in the real world is to deny what an Indiana Jones film represents.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:46 AM   #60
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I am definitely making the point that KotCS is NOT the only implausible movie. ToD is up there too.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:09 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
That's the problem with analyzing the films too deeply, Darth. Lucas set out to make a spectacle for viewing pleasure. But, what he did was create something with far more depth and longevity.

As fans we enjoy studying them in depth, and in doing so, at places like this, we discover many other things that we never expected to. The original film which set the standard, didn't set out to be what it became - it set out as a wild, death-defying adventure, paying homage to previous credibility-shattering series. What made it last as a series is more than just action: it's the character of Indy who makes it more interesting for us to follow the adventure. Since we care about Indy the character we care more whether he survives or not. There are plenty of action movies where I couldn't care whether the 'hero' lived or died, since they are far more cardboard in character.

I think it's because fans want to believe in Indy, that they also want to believe in all the physics and logic that come into play during an Indy movie. But, there will always be that homage to the past, to those incredible escapes that monochrome heroes were faced with at the end of each episode, and miraculously escaped from at the beginning of the next. Unless you accept this format, then Indy won't work, especially KOTCS, where the format reached a new 'explosive' cliffhanger.

To place an Indiana Jones film in the real world is to deny what an Indiana Jones film represents.

I agree with pretty much everything you state. Sometimes one doesn't need to justify why one should likes or dislikes something (although that doesn't mean that the debates can't be fun and enlightening). Over examination/analysis can sometimes lead to conclusions that are debatable, when ultimately it's simply about what works (or doesn't work) for the individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
I am definitely making the point that KotCS is NOT the only implausible movie. ToD is up there too.
I assumed that would be the case... in which case our view is not that different. It's just a question of wether one thinks the "implausibility" element adds or detracts (and to what extent) to a given movie... in this case TOD, TLC and KOTCS.

Last edited by Darth Vile : 12-14-2009 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:43 AM   #62
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I don't have to back it up and say it definitely could have happened as we saw it: I'm just saying there's reasonable doubt there as to whether it's possible.
It's easy to say you don't have to back it up AND whine about snide comments, (as you see it) vs backing it up. Although pretty self serving. Glad you cleared that up!

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Originally Posted by emtiem
You've utterly failed to grasp what's going on here. Read the first post again; kongisking said "have fun and just imagine, for a brief moment, how this could possibly work?". To understand that sentence is neither brain surgery nor rocket science, Rocket Surgeon.

Utterly failed to grasp! That's GOLDEN. Whereas you feel justified in confining me SOLELY to the thread's springboard, what you've utterly failed to grasp is what goes on in a message board. A right which I'm fully exercizing: to express my consternation with a subject I consider utterly stupid and worthy, I guess from your volumes on the subject, for THEM. Members who are devoid of grey matter having emptied them, emtiem.

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Originally Posted by emtiem
If we're accepting the Mythbusters life raft thing as proof that the Temple raft escape can work, despite them changing every single variable in order to make it more possible, then why the hell would I have to say what yield the bomb is?

Having a hard time staightening out your thoughts? Temple is just as guilty. Way to comprehend things.

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Originally Posted by emtiem
Why are you so singularly incapable of reading in my and other posts that it 'depends on the size of the bomb'? It may be possible if the bomb was a fairly low yield. Read my post above where I give examples of objects and even men surviving blasts.
Yeah, Like the example of Marion faling "a couple of stories and surviving"? A person can fall FIVE and survive, not to mention Horus' skirt offset someof the velocity, and that pesky little point of her fall being two stories MAX. No I still don't accept your "examples".

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Originally Posted by emtiem
You can only PROVE it's impossible by giving me examples of people in lead-lined fridges being killed at the same distance and from the same yield bomb as in the film- until you can provide this, (as I say) YOU CANT, BACK UP your witless little comments bashing everyone who's having a fun time talking about this.
Sure I can, Spoiler:
but what's the point of explaining things to Kool Aid drinking fktards?
Well either I'm picking on you or everyone sweetheart which is it? (Please look up the concept of "Universal YOU") This IS fun to talk about!

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Originally Posted by emtiem
Oh don't be so pathetic as to lie.
'Snide' means to be maliciously derogatory and to show haughty disdain. Obviously you find 'us folks unbelievable' in a nice way. Sorry, I mean some of us 'idiots'. What a charmer.

You know what? Snide also means: communicated without humor, which you are sorely lacking, and as you're so competent at comprehending things, I quoted a part of a post I agreed with jackass! Pathetic indeed, I won't be so bold to say I'm playing chess, but put down the jacks and at least play checkers! Duh.

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Originally Posted by emtiem
Pray tell how you mean everybody to take you calling us 'idiots', then? Is there some definition of the word 'idiot' that's in some way complementary in modern society that I've not come across before? I can't believe you don't even have the backbone to stand behind your own snide little comments. I've already used the word, but it is truly pathetic.
Fool, Surely you understand a sequence of events, cause and effect? To take a humorous quote and use it as an emotional tampon is causality. But, to assert I don't have the backbone to stand behind the usage of idiot without first waiting for a response to your objection of the use lends itself to my point regarding cause and effect. Which of my posts ducked the usage of the term "idiots"? Maybe you should go back to praying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by emtiem
I've seen your ridiculous outbursts on this board before and I do have to wonder how you even function as a member of society.
I could ask the same of your perception of time: cause and effect!

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Originally Posted by emtiem
Don't bother replying with more puerile insults: I'm not interested in an argument and as soon as this is posted I'll be looking for an 'ignore' function on this board so I don't have to endure any more of your moronic and inflammatory posts.
THAT's a good one, you can just pursue the enlightened reflections of the cultivated concerning surviving a nuclear blast from the inside of a refrigerator!

Quote:
Originally Posted by emtiem
I'll happily continue talking to anyone else about this subject, though, as I was having fun talking about it in a sensible manner, and I thank kongisking for coming up with a fun idea for thread.

Yeah, THANKS "kongisking"!

Bottom line: You can't survive a nuclear blast in side a refrigerator!
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:14 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
You see, Indy is a guy we can relate to, because he's still human. In the first three he gets shot (a small flesh wound), bashed to within an inch of his life and even falls under the spell of black magic. He seems susceptible. Rolling out of the fridge without any apparent damage takes him beyond being susceptible.

That's actually the only bit of the scene that, if I really had to find fault, I say that's a bit hard to swallow. I can go along with the fiction of the scene that his fridge is lead-lined because they tell me it is, and that it gets blown away by the blast because that could happen. His actual survival of the impact is the bit that's tricky to explain, but then that ever was that way. As I said before- if I really think about it there's not much chance of him surviving the bridge crash in ToD, but you're not given enough time to worry that and in these sort of films people can survive big falls and the like. Marion even does it in Raiders.
Perhaps they could have had the fridge land on something soft (maybe a big gopher mound! ); perhaps water or something, but that would almost slow it all down and complicate it too much. It's fine the way it is, and to be honest I still love the whole thing: what a great bit of peril to be in- stuck in a Doomtown! Marvellous, and it feels fresh to Indy- it's a situation no-one really thought to have him in but it works fabulously. I love it.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:21 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by emtiem
Perhaps they could have had the fridge land on something soft (maybe a big gopher mound! ); perhaps water or something, but that would almost slow it all down and complicate it too much. It's fine the way it is, and to be honest I still love the whole thing: what a great bit of peril to be in- stuck in a Doomtown! Marvellous, and it feels fresh to Indy- it's a situation no-one really thought to have him in but it works fabulously. I love it.

Yep... The only element of the entire scene I don't warm towards, simply because it's somewhat tacky, is the CGI'd flying fridge. Everything else, as you say, is "marvellous".
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:22 PM   #65
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Agreed.

People complain all they want about this scene. But the fact is when I first heard the countdown and seen Indy looking for a way out, my heart raced a bit and I was on the edge of my theater seat. I even knew about the fridge scene beforehand thanks to The Raven, but as the countdown got closer to zero I just thought "Jesus, what's he gonna do?!"

It made me forget my problems and took me out of the real world for a bit.

And that's what Indiana Jones is suppose to do.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:03 AM   #66
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emtiem, Darth, Doc,

The landing is the hardest part of the event to see Indy surviving. Just how absorbant is the outer lining of a top of the range lead-lined fridge?

In the 'Lost Journal of Indiana Jones' there's an advert for a Wizard fridge. Indy has added a note to one side of the picture: "Gotta get one of these. Looks pretty durable."

And as Rocket wrote, there are precedents for people falling long distances and surviving:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Yeah, Like the example of Marion faling "a couple of stories and surviving"? A person can fall FIVE and survive...

If the average real world person can survive, then all the more reason for Indy, who is more impervious to damage than the average person. Braced tightly inside a confined space, which has a rigid inner and a less rigid outer layer may provide all the protection he needs.

For the average person in the real world, the fall would preferably be into water from a low level (above a certain height, hitting water is like hitting concrete because of the surface tension).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
Bottom line: You can't survive a nuclear blast in side a refrigerator!

Until it's been tested nobody can say for certain. It isn't something that's likely to get tested. The human body can be remarkably resilient, and there have been cases of people surviving seemingly impossible situations. Even if we only accept Raiders as 'the one true Indiana Jones movie', then there are plenty of examples of human body resilience taken to extremes.

To say that something can't be done without actually trying it, is theoretical. Just as it is theroetical to say that something may be achieved, before it is attempted. A theory may be proved or disproved.

That's the basis on which I accept that Indy could survive being nuked in a fridge. Science provides evidence for the survival of objects in nuclear explosions, and as long as they are blown to safety before the thermal radiation there is even more chance of their remaining intact.

What KOTCS does is take scientific precedent and add a big dose of luck to the event. Luck and coincidence ensure that the event follows the scripted path. Just don't try it at home.

Last edited by Montana Smith : 12-15-2009 at 02:21 AM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:59 AM   #67
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Guys, I have enjoyed your replies and I don't wish by any means to detract from your arguments. I admit I suffer from Raiders-itus, but I won't accept that as a fault of mine, rather I blame George Lucas et al for making such a brilliant movie. I will happily keep suffering this affliction until he makes equal or better. Again, I'm glad they made KotCS (regardless of any and all of my criticisms) and I'm really hoping they make Indy5.
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:23 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
Guys, I have enjoyed your replies and I don't wish by any means to detract from your arguments.

If it wasn't for differing viewpoints there would be little to discuss, and nothing to get the little grey cells working for their money!

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Originally Posted by Mickiana
I admit I suffer from Raiders-itus, but I won't accept that as a fault of mine, rather I blame George Lucas et al for making such a brilliant movie. I will happily keep suffering this affliction until he makes equal or better.

I have the same feelings towards the three Star Wars prequels. The original three are special, and have the characters and situations that make them feel right. As a kid I wanted to live in the universe that George built. But the later three films just don't appeal in the same way. Luckily, for me, I found that KOTCS didn't offend in the same way (even though I expected it was going to, hence my initial resistance to even watch it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiana
Again, I'm glad they made KotCS (regardless of any and all of my criticisms) and I'm really hoping they make Indy5.

That's something the majority here will likely be in agreement with. As long as it isn't 'The Adventures of Mutt Jones'!


Last edited by Montana Smith : 12-15-2009 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:39 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
emtiem, Darth, Doc,

The landing is the hardest part of the event to see Indy surviving. Just how absorbant is the outer lining of a top of the range lead-lined fridge?

In the 'Lost Journal of Indiana Jones' there's an advert for a Wizard fridge. Indy has added a note to one side of the picture: "Gotta get one of these. Looks pretty durable."

If the average real world person can survive, then all the more reason for Indy, who is more impervious to damage than the average person. Braced tightly inside a confined space, which has a rigid inner and a less rigid outer layer may provide all the protection he needs.

For the average person in the real world, the fall would preferably be into water from a low level (above a certain height, hitting water is like hitting concrete because of the surface tension).


True, and I suppose the fridge does land on a sloping hillside which offers an angle closer to its trajectory than just flat land would do- it sort of acts as a landing ramp which may mean that the impact would be slightly less.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:19 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Even if we only accept Raiders as 'the one true Indiana Jones movie', then there are plenty of examples of human body resilience taken to extremes.

Very true: gunshot wounded arm hanging onto a periscope in salt water for hours on end? Ouch!
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:46 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhelm
We have to remember that Mickey Rooney survived the atomic bomb without a fridge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWGsryWhxIA

This scene from "The Atomic Kid" (1954) was the genesis for the whole Doomtown sequence. They combined it with the fridge idea from the early draft of Back To The Future.

"How did he survive?"
Thank you very much for finding that clip, Wilhelm. Mickey's sandwich is still intact, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
To survive the truck dragging sequence, the stuntman had to have protective padding, and a trench was dug under the path of the truck so the stuntman would fit safely beneath it. Indy couldn't have done this manoeuvre in real-life. Realizing this didn't spoil my enjoyment of the film, but it made me think about how it was that Indy could get away with it. My answer was to see that things operate differently in the world Indy occupies - and the biggest factor in all his escapes was luck.
Hi, Matt. When "Raiders" came out, I had a good friend in school who HATED it because of Indy's lack of wounds from the drag under/behind the truck. She would call the film 'dumb, stupid, etc.' and would roll her eyes everytime I mentioned it. I tried to explain that 'it's just a movie' but it didn't change her opnion. Now, she's a doctor...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
I found the submarine ride to be one of the more plausible incidents. The U-Boat was unlikely to submerge, as it uses more fuel underwater. As long as Indy can survive the cold he can remain alive.
Oh, it definitely dives and there are many on-screen elements to confirm it. The question is: how long/far does it stay under? (Anyway, that is a completely different topic of discussion and this is a thread about refridgerators.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
In the 'Lost Journal of Indiana Jones' there's an advert for a Wizard fridge. Indy has added a note to one side of the picture: "Gotta get one of these. Looks pretty durable."
I like that little note in the book. One can almost hear H.Ford's voice when reading it. (So you've managed to get a copy of "Lost Journal". If you feel so inclined, I'd be interested in reading your opnions: The Lost Journal)

Having read about the fridge idea about a year before the opening day of "Skull", I thought it was fun gag and enjoyed the final scene. Is it plausible? No, but without these ridiculous moments they wouldn't be Indiana Jones movies. To me, the crazy luck and incredible escapes are the attraction rather than a quest for biblical aritifacts and beatin' up Nazis. As for your explanations on the A-bomb survival, they work well in The Wacky World of Indiana Jones.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:33 AM   #72
Rocket Surgeon
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Thanks Goonie...

9:39-10:00 sums up nuking the fridge...

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Old 12-15-2009, 10:36 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Oh, it definitely dives and there are many on-screen elements to confirm it. The question is: how long/far does it stay under? (Anyway, that is a completely different topic of discussion and this is a thread about refridgerators.)

Hi Stoo,

So it dives to preserve secrecy - diving is normally a last resort, what with using extra fuel, and provision of fresh air. I think I remember seeing film now, of the U-Boat travelling just under the surface with Indy clinging to the periscope above water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
I like that little note in the book. One can almost hear H.Ford's voice when reading it. (So you've managed to get a copy of "Lost Journal". If you feel so inclined, I'd be interested in reading your opnions: The Lost Journal)

Not much to say about the Journal, apart from it being an interesting addition to my Indy collection, giving useful diagrams, plans and little notes like the one about the fridge. It's also a nice book to pick up, as it has a sort of padded squishy 'leather-like' cover! The Greatest Adventures is similarly useful, and fiendishly clever (running your fingers over every page to make sure you haven't missed some secret insert!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Having read about the fridge idea about a year before the opening day of "Skull", I thought it was fun gag and enjoyed the final scene. Is it plausible? No, but without these ridiculous moments they wouldn't be Indiana Jones movies. To me, the crazy luck and incredible escapes are the attraction rather than a quest for biblical aritifacts and beatin' up Nazis. As for your explanations on the A-bomb survival, they work well in The Wacky World of Indiana Jones.

If there is even the slightest chance of something being remotely plausible in the real world (if each individual event is possible in isolation), then Indy's got a good chance of having all those events link up in sequence, so the complete event becomes possible. Well, the events are scripted to follow that route to success.

The question is, though, just how far did he travel in the fridge?

In the 'Lost Journal', opposite the page showing the fridge, is a photo of a "'Fake' house designed for A-bomb testing". Its partially derelict, and is unclear whether it's been bombed or not. It''s blackened on the front, but not the side, it's lost its windows and roof and half the brick chimney. Under the photo there is a list of effects caused by an atom bomb, but it doesn't say what size of bomb. Somewhere I have a mountain of facts and figures pertaining to bomb sizes, blast effects and radiation in radius from ground zero.

Like you say, it's a 'fun gag' and you have to look at it in the context of the film, and it's forebears. It's not the first seemingly implausible escape, but maybe the one that requires the most events to go right in sequence.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:46 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Smith
Like you say, it's a 'fun gag' and you have to look at it in the context of the film, and it's forebears. It's not the first seemingly implausible escape, but maybe the one that requires the most events to go right in sequence.

That's a good way of putting it.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:51 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon
9:39-10:00 sums up nuking the fridge...


It is indeed genuinely amusing (although I can’t determine whether the guy narrating is special needs or just pretending to be). One could of course do the same thing for ANH, TESB and ROTJ… movies which were far more focused on the "spectacle" of space ships and explosions than some over weight middle aged men like to pretend (including Lucas to some degree).
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