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Old 03-25-2005, 04:33 AM   #26
Stoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I remember it on the Cargo hold. I also remeber seeing a scene captured in the novels about Indy stopping before the spider romm in the peruvian temple to gather some artifacts for the sandbag...Is this a regressed memory?

I think everyone remembers a burning logo in the cargo hold!
However, Soapboxtop said "...ark at the end burns the logo of the crate."
which would indicate the D.C. warehouse and reinforces Aaron's claim.

About *seeing* artifacts before the spiders. Are you "yankin' my chain"?
I read the novel only once - don't own it. He puts them in the sandbag?
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale Horse
I remember it on the Cargo hold. I also remeber seeing a scene captured in the novels about Indy stopping before the spider romm in the peruvian temple to gather some artifacts for the sandbag...Is this a regressed memory?


In the original comic book there's a panel devoted to Indy stopping at a shelf (outside the room holding the Idol) to gather a couple of trinkets. It was done to show where he got the 'good pieces' Indy later gives to Marcus. Could that be the source of the memory? I believe the comic was based on the original story boards.

Aaron, I was in the first matinee showing the first day -- and while I was only on my way into seventh or eighth grade at the time -- I have no memory of the second burning scene. I can't believe all those prints of the film were cut after being shipped - I've never heard of anything like that happening.

Stoo, back in '91 McDonald's had a promotion where you could get all three of the Indy films. Back then movies weren't released in 3-4 months after the original theatrical release so it was a big deal when a blockbuster like the Indy films came out on VHS. It was a coup for McDonald's and I'd say a hugely successful promotion. As a gift my brother got me copies of Raiders and Last Crusade -- there was no need to get me ToD.

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Old 03-25-2005, 06:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
Aaron, I was in the first matinee showing the first day -- and while I was only on my way into seventh or eighth grade at the time -- I have no memory of the second burning scene. I can't believe all those prints of the film were cut after being shipped - I've never heard of anything like that happening.
Perhaps, and I'm not sure as to why exactly (thus the word "perhaps"), it was because only a few prints had that scene in it? Either as an error or as a test to see how people reacted to it.

I've seen the short clip from a "friend"...and I'm not saying anything more than that.
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Old 03-26-2005, 12:16 AM   #29
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[half-jokingly]I'm gonna have to break into the Ranch . . . or is it the Presidio (???) to resolve this . . . I"m starting to get a 'recovered memory' of the second burning as the crate is pushed down the warehouse. . . .


I don't doubt the footage was shot -- there's a neat symetry with the two crates. I just really question if the footage was ever really in the film as released. The whole point of the final scene is to dis-engage the audience by pulling back. A second close-up much later in the scene doesn't work. I could see it at the end of the credits before the reversion to the Paramount Logo but nowhere else.

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Old 03-27-2005, 02:23 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Brody
[Incidentally, I'm in the same bind in another film. At the end of the original Murder By Death, the Sidney Wang character and his adopted son are fleeing the mansion in their car. They come across a lost Sherlock Holmes and Watson type who ask directions. They give the directions. This sequence has been dropped from all versions -- I assume because of some copyright flap. I have no proof it was in the actual film but I know it was there. So I feel for you -- and acknowledge that you may well be right.]


I saw Murder By Death three or four times when it was in the theaters for it's initial run. (Twice with my brother and once with the whole family)

I don't recall any meeting with Sherlock Holmes.
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Old 03-27-2005, 11:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy500
I saw Murder By Death three or four times when it was in the theaters for it's initial run. (Twice with my brother and once with the whole family)

I don't recall any meeting with Sherlock Holmes.


You're not the first to tell me this. That's why I really identify with Aaron on this one.
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Old 03-28-2005, 02:42 AM   #32
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Not to mention there were three cuts of Star Wars Epsiode I back in '99. One had Darth Maul fall into the pit whole, the other had just his top half, and the other (the one on all the DVDs) has him falling into the pit whole but then splitting in half.

Also. if I recall, there were seven or so different cuts of Star Wars in '77 with various snipits missing or added (nothing major, just minor things).
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:38 PM   #33
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I can't believe I've never heard of the cut scene in Raiders before!
I'm shocked!
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Old 03-29-2005, 05:08 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Possibly not...Do you remember the shot being in the cargo hold
or the final warehouse scene?

The final scene..right before or after the shot of the entire warehouse.
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Old 03-29-2005, 05:39 AM   #35
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As I said before the scene is on my Region 4 Australian DVD.
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Old 03-29-2005, 06:03 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Colonel Vogel
As I said before the scene is on my Region 4 Australian DVD.


Can you make a screen cap?? It'd be very interesting to see.
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Old 03-29-2005, 06:14 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by soapboxtop
Can you make a screen cap?? It'd be very interesting to see.

I've only got a CD drive. If you buy me a new computer I may be able to help.
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Old 03-30-2005, 12:26 AM   #38
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Vogel
As I said before the scene is on my Region 4 Australian DVD.

When you first mentioned it, I think most people probably thought you
were referring to the cargo hold scene. At least, I did. Thank you for
confirming this truly, stupefying revelation!!! Wow!

CALLING ALL AUSTRALIAN DVD REGION 4 OWNERS
Is there anyone out there who could make a screen capture and post it?!?
Neolithic (if you're reading this), do you have the time/ability?

Aaron, thanks for answering my query. No need to bust your chops any further!
Thanks, of course, to *soapboxtop* from bringing this up in the first place...

For Joe Brody - Cool news about the McD's Indy offer. Do you remember any
promotional TV commercials? Are the boxes any different or are they just
the standard packaging? The thing is, all 3 movies were available on video
well before '91 so when you called them "vintage", it confused me.

Finally, there is a part in the novel where Toht is waiting to see Hitler.
Does anyone have any background info on this scene? Was it filmed?
I'm trying to compile a list of deleted scenes. If one already exists...
...please, stop me now.
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Old 03-30-2005, 03:17 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo
Thank you for confirming this truly, stupefying revelation!!! Wow!

Donít want to sound negative but the scene isnít that interesting.
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
the final scene in the warehouse that has the American flag being burned away

I highly doubt this, Aaron H. God burns an American flag in some version of one of the biggest films of all time, and no critic or commentator ever notices? The burden of proof rests on the few who claim to have seen this. Let's have a link to any video, picture, description or mention of the scene outside of this thread. Anyone?

If the scene is on mass-marketed VHS, Beta, Laserdisc, or DVD somewhere in the world, this should be easy. I've googled and found nothing. How about a link to the Amazon.com DVD comment that started this rumor?

It's not in the novelization. It's not in Kasdan's script. Perhaps only "TOP SECRET - ARMY INTEL. #9906753 - DO NOT OPEN!" burns away? I showed a 35mm print of Raiders at my university cinema recently... it's not there (I'm aware it could have been a rerelease print).

Help he out here, folks. I'm searching for the facts. Not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Doctor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall.
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:28 PM   #41
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sheesh, if only GL hadn't come up with the Idea of a symbol burning away...

this is pretty interesting, It would be cool if it remainded. Can anyone put a 5 second clip of it on the web?
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Old 04-18-2005, 07:34 PM   #42
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forget missing raiders scene, mission ravener! nice having you back old.....guy I never knew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
I highly doubt this, Aaron H. God burns an American flag in some version of one of the biggest films of all time, and no critic or commentator ever notices? The burden of proof rests on the few who claim to have seen this. Let's have a link to any video, picture, description or mention of the scene outside of this thread. Anyone?

If the scene is on mass-marketed VHS, Beta, Laserdisc, or DVD somewhere in the world, this should be easy. I've googled and found nothing. How about a link to the Amazon.com DVD comment that started this rumor?

It's not in the novelization. It's not in Kasdan's script. Perhaps only "TOP SECRET - ARMY INTEL. #9906753 - DO NOT OPEN!" burns away? I showed a 35mm print of Raiders at my university cinema recently... it's not there (I'm aware it could have been a rerelease print).

Help he out here, folks. I'm searching for the facts. Not truth. If it's truth you're interested in, Doctor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall.

clever, I agree that we need proof here, but this is something that I'm not going to disregard, it would be very cool if true and I think it may very well be, all these raveners saying they've seen it.


(no, i'm not anti US, just like the God above government fact)
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Old 04-18-2005, 08:33 PM   #43
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Joining 3 1/2 years ago makes me an old timer... that's cool.

It's not just the lack of evidence that makes me skeptical. Those who claim to have seen the American crate burn cannot agree what exactly burns (words? logo(s)? both? on one, two, or four sides?) or where this fits into the final sequence we know. Does the warehouseman leave a trail or smoke going down the aisle, or what?

I've heard this sort of thing from Aussies before, that Americans are too easily offended to witness certain scenes (such as the rumored duck beheading in 'Babe,' or slangy 'Crocodile Dundee' in-jokes at our expense). And it always comes down to "I've seen it, you haven't, you wouldn't understand" ...like a fifth grader explaining sex-ed to a third grader.

I predict we'll fall back on wondering if this scene was shot and included in test screenings, until someone prods Lucas or ILM for an official response.
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Old 04-18-2005, 09:15 PM   #44
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Its been a long time since I saw the footage...so pardon me for not remembering if it was a logo or just words. I do not have a clip of the scene, I do not know where to find one, and I will not say where I saw it.

The dramatic scene where the warehouseman wheels it down the aisle and the credits roll is where the scene is. Right before it goes to black we see a final shot of the crate, just like on the Bantu Wind, and the logo/words/etc burn away.

Last edited by Aaron H : 04-18-2005 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moedred
Joining 3 1/2 years ago makes me an old timer... that's cool.

It's not just the lack of evidence that makes me skeptical. Those who claim to have seen the American crate burn cannot agree what exactly burns (words? logo(s)? both? on one, two, or four sides?) or where this fits into the final sequence we know. Does the warehouseman leave a trail or smoke going down the aisle, or what?

I've heard this sort of thing from Aussies before, that Americans are too easily offended to witness certain scenes (such as the rumored duck beheading in 'Babe,' or slangy 'Crocodile Dundee' in-jokes at our expense). And it always comes down to "I've seen it, you haven't, you wouldn't understand" ...like a fifth grader explaining sex-ed to a third grader.

I predict we'll fall back on wondering if this scene was shot and included in test screenings, until someone prods Lucas or ILM for an official response.


these are all good points, unfortunitly no one will ever both to bug goerge about it. fortunitly they will save their questions for when they REALLY need them


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron H
Its been a long time since I saw the footage...so pardon me for not remembering if it was a logo or just words. I do not have a clip of the scene, I do not know where to find one, and I will not say where I saw it.

The dramatic scene where the warehouseman wheels it down the aisle and the credits roll is where the scene is. Right before it goes to black we see a final shot of the crate, just like on the Bantu Wind, and the logo/words/etc burn away.

ahh, so you're saying the guy wheels the crate somewhere, then drops it off and it starts to burn?


hmmm, doesn't seem to fit, the ending establishing shot is so perfect



but then again, so is the burning
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Old 04-19-2005, 08:10 AM   #46
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Perhaps he means that the crate burns after the credits.
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Old 04-19-2005, 08:39 AM   #47
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I checked out my old "recorded-from-HBO" version that my parents have, but the ending is as the DVDs and the VHS box set (w/ YIJC ch. 18).

What confuses me is that once the camera begins panning to show the overall warehouse, the "happy" IJ theme begins, then the warehouse worker turns behind some crates, and the credits begin to roll. I'm assuming the deleted scene would be once the worker sets the crate in its permanent home. Showing the power of the Ark just doesn't seem to fit with the Raiders March in the background. And the credits roll over the long shot of the warehouse for more than a few seconds. Having the burning crate shot as the very last shot, as the Colonel mentioned above, would screw this all up.

Something seems fishy here...
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:46 AM   #48
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For me, until someone actually takes the time to upload a clip somewhere I'm going to write this one off as 'Urban Legend.'

It just seems way too out of place with the pacing and timing of the end of the movie.
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Old 04-19-2005, 02:13 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VP
Perhaps he means that the crate burns after the credits.


That's the way I heard it: after the end credits finish, then we go back to the warehouse and see the crate burning.
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Old 04-19-2005, 02:18 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKAbatula
What confuses me is that once the camera begins panning to show the overall warehouse, the "happy" IJ theme begins, then the warehouse worker turns behind some crates, and the credits begin to roll. I'm assuming the deleted scene would be once the worker sets the crate in its permanent home. Showing the power of the Ark just doesn't seem to fit with the Raiders March in the background. And the credits roll over the long shot of the warehouse for more than a few seconds. Having the burning crate shot as the very last shot, as the Colonel mentioned above, would screw this all up.


to me it's not so much the music, but the way that they pull the camera back for an establishing shot BEFOR he would have a chance to put the crate down seems to say 'this is the last shot of the movie'. If they just had an establishing shot it would work, but not pulling back the camera...

unless they shot it both ways, but we have no word from any of the 'beleivers' of this that the establishing shot is different

Colonel Vogel, any chance you can get us a clip on the web?


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