The Man
Well-known member
michael said:Still waiting for this....
I'm in 'think mode'*, Mike...
*Property of Lucasfilm...
michael said:Still waiting for this....
Darth Vile said:Montana ? Thanks for the reply....
Darth Vile said:very subjective
Montana Smith said:I wouldn't argue with your assessment, Darth, since the way we each view a film is, to use your words, naturally
What will work for one, won't work for all. Which was the dilemma that faced Lucas and Spielberg when they approached the project of KOTCS.
I would agree with you about Shorty not being a very engaging character. For me he was the weakest point of TOD, and a sign of the times in which that film was made.
Darth Vile said:Agreed. Also forgot to mention that I think a lot has to do with the qualities the actual actors bring. For example, I think Karen Allen would have been equally good at playing a night club singer... and I think the reason a lot of people actually like the character of Marion (the quality of Raiders notwithstanding) is not because of Marion's substance on paper/within the dialogue, but what Allen brings naturally with her performance. Would Marion have been as popular played by Kate Capshaw?
Imagine Mutt played by River Pheonix as he was at the time of TLC. Would that have improved KOTCS any? Would that have made Mutt a more engaging character and the father/son dynamic more akin to TLC? Not that I dislike Shia... but I don't think he's an 'intense' kind of character actor that could make Mutt appear complex in very few words... but that's another discussion.
Darth Vile said:Imagine Mutt played by River Pheonix as he was at the time of TLC. Would that have improved KOTCS any? Would that have made Mutt a more engaging character and the father/son dynamic more akin to TLC? Not that I dislike Shia... but I don't think he's an 'intense' kind of character actor that could make Mutt appear complex in very few words... but that's another discussion.
kongisking said:When I asked a friend if Mutt would have been a better character if played by anyone else than Shia, he took about a half-second to mumble, not very convincingly, "no."
He claimed that, as shown on screen, Mutt was a wimp, a pathetic loser trying to kid himself into thinking he's cool and hip, while looking like a buffoon compared to his old man. But this was precisely what I enjoyed; I think it's hilarious that the son of Indiana Jones is a little bit of a crybaby and a hotshot. That being said, we do get to see Mutt mature throughout the film, and witness him taking his first lessons in badassery (the motorcycle chase, the duel). I want to see more of Mutt learning how to become an "action hero" in Indy 5.
Like I said, I thought Mutt was a fun and likable addition to the cast, and I now love the idea of Indy having offspring because of all the potential for character development it implies.
Darth Vile said:Imagine Mutt played by River Pheonix as he was at the time of TLC. Would that have improved KOTCS any? Would that have made Mutt a more engaging character and the father/son dynamic more akin to TLC?
kongisking said:He (Kong's buddy) went on to say that Mutt's character should have been how James Kirk was in JJ Abrams' Star Trek: a heroic person with a good moral compass, but lacking in a firm direction and positive support.
Sea Monarch said:Darth, I agree with alot of other things you've said on this post,and others, that perhaps I can mention in near future. I humbly point out however, that comparing Shia and River's performances is akin to apples and oranges. Not only are they different actors (obviously). But they are portraying different characters. Shia should not portray Mutt the way River portrayed Young Indy, Unless SSpielberg had wanted it. This would most likely be boring and redundant.
And were River called upon to play Mutt instead, he (rightly) would have played him as a slightly whiny hothead, as needed, unless Spielberg wanted to go another direction. And again, Mutt is not the same person as Indy. Different environment, different circumstances.
Lonsome_Drifter said:I apologize for going off-topic. But, SM; I can't tell where you're quoting someone and when you're not.
That post is very hard to read.
(PM me, if you need help learning how. Also, mods feel free to delete this post if you desire. Again, I apologize.)
Sea Monarch said:Couldn't agree w/ you more, Kong. Everybody's looks wimpy compared to Indy. He's like a timex watch! But Mutt was neither wimpy nor pathetic. And come on, Derr! Thinking and/or acting like he's cool or hip is exactly what that kind of "tough guy" teen does in real life. Mutt captured a "young heroic teen w/ a good moral compass" very well. Well meaning teens, try to mask those insecurities that we all face at that age, with that "hotshot", tough guy mask. But he's not some emotionless, "untouchable", cardboard, blowhard, as evidenced in his barely contained feelings of worry and heartache for Oxley's safety in the Peruvian asylum.
He's an emotional teen (as most are), trying to figure out who is, and trying to mask his insecurities, still doing the best he can to be what he perceives a Man to be, as he grows up into that man, more and more everyday. We do see him become more mature, and more of a Man as he helps bear responsibilities and rises to the challenges he is faced with.
I also thought it was hilarious, and true to character when he whined about Marion getting "to drive last time". And in all fairness he earns the image a bit, as he is a real Biker, that knows his way around a Motorcycle, and not just some poser. Not to mention his skills with Blades. Gotta give credit where due.
Conversely, I think it would have been a mistake, and unrealistic, not to mention boring, had he been portrayed as having it all together. Remember, he hasn't even known Indy, so don't expect him to be just like him. And just think, they almost went the opposite extreme with Mutt (according to the making of...features), which I suspect, would have ultimately been a more boring choice.
It seemed to me also, that some had an unsubstantiated bias against Shia, before going in, (The loud minority). But I think Shia was great in the role. He portrayed Mutt effectively. Faults, strengths, insecurities, and all.
Darth, I agree with alot of other things you've said on this post,and others, that perhaps I can mention in near future. I humbly point out however, that comparing Shia and River's performances is akin to apples and oranges. Not only are they different actors (obviously). But they are portraying different characters. Shia should not portray Mutt the way River portrayed Young Indy, Unless SSpielberg had wanted it. This would most likely be boring and redundant.
And were River called upon to play Mutt instead, he (rightly) would have played him as a slightly whiny hothead, as needed, unless Spielberg wanted to go another direction. And again, Mutt is not the same person as Indy. Different environment, different circumstances.
As much as I enjoyed The latest Star Trek, despite, and somewhat because of the Star Wars posing, I find the young Kirk shot where he jumps from the car to be more and more unbelievable and annoying with repeated viewing. It's tries too hard to be cool, and is just so cheesy and over the top!
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