Chachapoyan Temple light trap

Nurhachi1991

Well-known member
Stop................ stay out of the light?

i have been wondering this since i was a little kid


what does the light have to do with the trap? how does standing in light trigger a trap??????
 

Nurhachi1991

Well-known member
Indy just kinda puts his hand up and a drip of water falls down then forrestal comes out of the wall



and did you notice this? when satipo drops indys whip and runs and indy makes that huge jump......... well the door is slowly closing on him and it looks like its almost shut than when they pan back to indy the door is higher. That door should have closed there is no way he could of been faster
 

|ZiR|

New member
Maybe the map had warnings about the various traps and ways to avoid them.

What I do wonder was where the idea for the light/absence of light triggered traps comes from, and what historical basis there is, if any.
 

UltimateManGod

New member
I always figured Indy knew about the trap. I wonder how it works. How a more primitive civilization can build a trap triggered by interrupting a shaft of light is quite a conundrum.
 

Moedred

Administrator
Staff member
Original Raider said:
Theres a midget Hovito hiding in the wall
Or a monkey, or bats, or birds. (see my previous post)
Aaron H in 2004 said:
Who says the Hovitos built the temple? It could have been built by some Atlantean-like civilization several thousand years ago.
So many Indy 4 hints were right before our eyes...
 

NLogan

Member
Temple of the Chachapoyan warriors Traps

So I stumbled upon this site whilst looking up Indiana Jones in anticipation of the upcoming movie. I should have known there would be a community of die hard Indy fans, it seems now-a-days there is a fan site forum for everything. I’m glad I stumbled onto this one. I have been reading pages of comments from you folks over the years and have come across an interesting question about the booby traps in the Temple sequence of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Original thread here. http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=7059

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread or concept but I couldn’t resist adding my opinion on the believability of the traps. Starting from the idol to the exit I will postulate on how they might have worked if they were real, (regardless they worked in the movie to make one of the most exciting and memorable sequences ever filmed). Also sorry about posting one right after another but the explanations are lengthy. Remember I am not an engineer or chemist, but if you are I would like to know if my ideas are possible or what errors would keep them from being so.

All of the traps in the temple work off of simple machines, i.e. the Lever, Pulley, Wedge, Wheels and Axles, Inclined Planes, Screws, and simple Engines using friction or heat.
 
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NLogan

Member
Idol Trap
Deep inside the dark recesses of the Temple of the Chachapoyan warriors the fertility idol sits on top of a pedestal that somehow gauges its exact weight and activates the trap when the weight is displaced.
Imagine a teeter-totter or seesaw if you will. It is just a type of simple machine, a lever acting as an inclined plane balancing on top of an inverted wedge, a level plane balancing over a fulcrum (pivot point). Ignore the dots, they were the only way the diagram would work because of auto formatting.

H....................H
H....................H
H....................H
H....................H
=============
...........A...........

If the weight is evenly distributed on both ends the plane is level. But if there is a weight discrepancy on either end the lightest end will rise while the lowest end will fall. Underneath the gallery where the idol is found is a similar mechanism. Instead of two equal weights, imagine one weight vastly outweighs the other but the fulcrum (pivot point) is moved off center to counter balance allowing the length of the lever to exert a smaller force on one end to keep it level.

H
H
H
H....................H
=============
..A



Imagine there is a horizontal lever on top and bottom of the small end of the balance beam.

H
H
H....................-----
H....................H
=============
..A..................-----

If the weight on the idol pedestal is too little or too much it will raise or lower the heavy end of the balance beam (the column supporting the idol) and as the small end rises or falls it will trip one of the levers above or below. The levers use leverage to open a floodgate type stone door. Surrounding the gallery room is a huge aquifer or void containing either water or sand. If it is water it is continuously supplied by rainfall and groundwater seepage or a direct access to an underground or above ground river. As the gate opens sand or water starts rushing through and filling the void between the inner and outer walls of the gallery. Eventually the weight of it is too much and it collapses the support structures and columns ending in a total Collapse of the Gallery. If someone just snatched the idol off of the pedestal it would be like someone jumping off of or onto one end of the seesaw and catapulting the other end.
Perhaps Indy guessed pretty closely the ratio of weight of his substitute bag of sand to the Idol but it was slightly heavier (not enough sand taken out), and this caused a slow descent of the column and a slow force on the lever, which slowly opened the floodgate. Instead of near instant collapse the sand or water took more time to accumulate allowing our intrepid hero the time to escape while still causing minor collapses of stone and debris. Also the temple is built on an inclined plane and Indy is always going up when entering (there are several sets of visible steps and slopes to the passageways leading up to the idol gallery) so the rushing water or sand will eventually follow gravity down toward the temple entrance.
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NLogan

Member
The water or sand also is the impetus for all of the following traps (except the pillar of light spike trap and the initial blow dart) setting off a chain reaction. The Pitfall that Indy swings across is the eventual drain for all of the water or sand. The sliding stone door would have to have been on some sort of pulley system with a fulcrum and counter weight to open the door if it was ever to be reused. If it was a one-time use mechanism, the stone door possibly had wedges between the walls of the passage and itself to keep it from sliding shut. The building pressure on top of it from the sand or water running downhill in the void above the ceiling eventually forces the weight down, but the friction of the wedges keeps it from slamming shut. Also with a gradual build up of weight from the water/sand would mean a slow descent of the door. If he had just snatched the idol from the pedestal and somehow avoided the quick collapse of the gallery, the door would have slammed shut anyway trapping him. Or the water would have swept him into the pitfall where the fall itself or punji sticks at the bottom would have ended it for him. The building pressure also starts the Giant stone ball rolling down the passageway (a giant inclined plane) which gains momentum from gravity and the decline of the slope towards the exit eventually sealing the temple.

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NLogan

Member
Blow darts
The dart mechanisms are pressure released in much the same way on a smaller scale. Stepping (or mis-stepping) on a booby-trapped paving stone in the floor causes a balance exchange that shifts a lever or activates a pulley system. The lever possibly builds pressure (water or sand) or like someone suggested uses gravity to cause a falling stone to cause enough air pressure to propel the darts out the carved relief stone faces and at the unwary sojourner.
When I was in Brazil some children there taught me how to make a Trabuca (spelling?) blowgun that works in the same manner. We would take a thick length of bamboo and put a small berry or stone into one end. Bamboo is hollow or can be easily hollowed. On the other end we would insert an identical small berry or stone. We would then select a smaller circumference length of bamboo the exact size of the hole of the original shaft of bamboo. We would ram the small bamboo into one end pushing the berry or stone and the air pocket between the stones would shoot the other berry or stone out of the other end hard enough to welt whomever we aimed at. Berries worked best because as they squished in they formed an airtight barrier. The pushing berry also became the next projectile and another pushing berry was placed in the ramming end reloading it. I have seen toy pop cork guns that use the same principle.
It would not take to much imagination to imagine a mechanism that could use pressure to propel darts and simultaneously reload a dart. However I don’t believe the darts were capable of being fired more than once. All of the volley of dart projectiles as Indy is running from the pedestal is caused by him running and stepping on the trigger release stones but travelling faster than the mechanism is working keeping him ahead of the darts. It is also (and mostly) from the falling debris landing on the floor triggering each dart mechanism.
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NLogan

Member
Light Trap
In the temple there is a tunnel leading to an antechamber lit by a single shaft of light, one that has deadly consequences for blocking it. A whirring noise, a creaking sound and a sudden rush of spikes is the last thing you will see or hear. But how did it work? I liked someone’s suggestion of a water bladder type heat device but water takes way too much time to heat up using sunlight. My theory is along the same lines though.
The crepuscular-rays of light entering from the outside fall directly across the floor of the passageway. There are also crevices in the passage walls on either side of the column of sunlight. Through direct light or diffused light a simple thermodynamic heat engine powers the spikes.
The light falls directly onto or possibly refracted onto a bladder made from animal skins. The bladder contains a mixture of gas such as methane or other common gases such as carbon monoxide found in mineshafts or caves. The gases accumulate in inadequately ventilate spaces above a pillar fall because they are lighter than air and will rise and stratify if not properly diffused. The gases themselves can be deadly to explorers but in this case we will say they were carefully mined and placed in animal skin bladders carefully soaked and sealed in animal fat or pitch. The warriors may have inadvertently discovered them by exploring caverns lit by torches.
The combined gases form a proportional relationship between temperature and pressure because of constant volume in the sealed bladders. Each bladder is on a seesaw balance beam also, with an identical bladder and second beam of light in the adjoining tunnel or crawlspace next to the main shaft. Changes in air temperature or the amount of light being refracted onto the bladder changes the temperature and pressure of the mixture of the gases causing it to rise or lower. Which in turn causes the other bladder on the other end to rise or lower either more directly into the light or further away from it which causes even further tilting from pressure and temperature differences. The seesaw motion activates pulleys of vine or rope around a wheel with pegs (envision the wheels from the breath of God in the Last Crusade).
The pulleys move the spikes along a friction track back and forth. The spikes only shoot out at intruders into the shaft of light in the chamber. During times such as cloudy days or nightfall the same amount of light falls on each bladder creating a homeostasis that balances the seesaw. The twin shafts of light actually have a single source but branch close to the chamber so that in the event of a bird flying over or dawn or dusk the same amount of light hits each bladder. The amount of light could also be modified or intensified by strategically placed gold artifacts that conduct heat and may reflect or refract the light. Dew and moisture from the rainforest and rock itself would also condense and evaporate causing cooling on the bladders preserving the homeostasis at a static rate.
The unusually cold temperatures inside the shafts because of the effect of the depth and darkness of the tunnel has on air temperature and also the radiant cooling effect of groundwater or rainwater entering the shaft preternaturally preserve the animal skins and vines. Remember Forrestal? He was still partially preserved because of the air temperature of the chamber whereas a corpse on the floor of the jungle outside the temple would become skeleton-ized very rapidly by the heat and humidity not to mention insect activity assisting the decomposition rate.
In the event that the spikes are activated they can be retracted the same way by temperature changes of the bladders reversing the pulley system. Think of it like an ancient version of the drinking bird. You can see a drinking bird used as a trigger device in the film Darkman.
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NLogan

Member
Spiders
The arachnids inside the temple were not planned by the builders, but are incidental to the cool shady area the entrance tunnel provides.

spiders.bmp


Hovitos
These warriors protect the sanctity of the temple through fear of the Gods as possible direct descendants of the Chachapoyan warriors or interlopers who inherited the territory who fear and worship the temple they found and the mysterious death that surrounds it.

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Anyways those are my theories on how the traps may have worked. I have been liking what I have been reading in the threads so far. Awesome site and community!
 

NLogan

Member
The_Raiders said:
Yeah, and how does Indy know to stay outa the light? i wonder that every time i watch RAIDERS.

Forrestall was a competitor and a good one. :dead: The reason he didn't defeat the light trap and Indy did because Indy had both pieces of the map and perhaps they told him about the traps the way the grail diary did. The clues were out there for those who researched hard enough. Also Indy is a observant kind of fellow with good intuition and thinks on his feet. He is in a temple that probably has not had a visitor in some time. The only disturbed areas would be where Forrestall moved things. Indy knows he went in but never came out so he is already looking for traps and other reasons the competition never made it. He sees the disturbances in the dust of the floor or the broken vines or whatever and knows something about the place isn't right and starts looking hard into what may be a trigger to a trap. It is obvious that no one had been past that point because when Indy got to the Idol gallery there were no skeletons from previous adventurers littering the ground with darts in them. If anyone had defeated the blow dart traps the idol would have been gone already.
Thanks Fishbowl head for the previous comment.
 

NLogan

Member
Hmmmm... only one person commented. Maybe all of the people who talked about the traps in the linked thread are gone. Maybe they are all talking about the new movie. Maybe they just don't care. It would have been nice if someone said something about my posts. How about a, "Maybe that could work", or "Are you off your rocker? That is the craziest thing I have ever heard and it obviously would never work." Woe is me. I spent a whole hour of my time writing some posts and days wondering why nobody has replied. How sad is it that I need some justification from a group of strangers. Okay all my whining is over off to more important things.
 
That's pretty intense work, there. Good job. I really like these theories. I found the light trap the most interesting explanation since it's the most difficult to explain without modern technology.
 

NLogan

Member
Sam Falco said:
Question about the light trap... what happened when the sun would go down?

Maybe as the light gradually diminishes so does the lethality of the trap. When it becomes totally dark the trap no longer functions. However if some adventurer were to say stick his torch close to the opening of the crevices in the wall to peek inside, the heat might move the gas bladders and trigger the trap. While the temple may become partially safer at night because the light trap is inert, all of the main galleries were lit by natural lighting and the Idol gallery would become more dangerous because it would be more difficult to see to avoid the floor triggers for the dart traps.
 
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