Spielberg Interview = Less Violence In KCS

Peacock's-Eye

New member
As many people who grew up on Spielberg's films noticed, for better or for worse, LC & KCS are far less visceral and explicitly violent than RotLA or TOD. I think this section of a recent interview with SS from Vanity Fair goes along way in explaining why. He doesn't think a child under the age of 13 can understand Close Encounters - I was five when the movie came out & I understood it fine. He things Jaws is a PG-13, and I grew up on that movie, no problems.

Now, I loved KCS, and the mellowing of the manic violence from the first two films doesn't bother me much. But I think as SS gets older, he is definitely softening.
* * * *
I grew up on your movies and have been showing them to my kids, and we just watched Close Encounters and E.T.
How old are your kids?

Twelve and nine.
And they saw Close Encounters?

Yeah, I thought they were ready for it.
What did they think?

They loved it.
Did they understand the man’s personal obsession?

Yeah, they loved it, and the reversal with the mashed potatoes, they really loved that. I was wondering what you’ve done with your own kids. Do you show them Jaws at some point?
I don’t really have a schedule of when I want to show my children my movies. They usually ask me to see Indiana Jones, which I think is fine for my younger kids, but then they’ve asked me to see Jaws and even Saving Private Ryan and Schindler’s List, and when they ask me these questions, I pretty much have to evaluate their relative maturation, because kids, even in the same family, mature at different rates. For instance—I don’t want to name names, because kids in the same family like to protest the unfairness of one child gaining a privilege over another—I have a couple of kids who saw Schindler’s List when they were younger than the average audience that would be permitted by average parents to see that story.

Like under 10?
Not under 10. Not at all. No one’s seen Schindler’s List in my family under 15. No one has.

That sounds about right.
The important thing is, you’ve got to know your kids, and you’ve got to know them as individuals. I love my kids as individuals, not as a herd, and I do have a herd of children: I have seven kids.

What are the ages?
From 10 to 30.

What age do you set for Jaws?
I haven’t shown Jaws to my 10- or 11-year-old, and I won’t. I showed Jaws to Sawyer when he was, I think, 13. Because then they use the argument, “Dad, I was bar mitzvahed last week. Everybody said today I’m a man, and you still won’t let me see Jaws?” Sometimes the kids outsmart me. It is PG, but that was before the PG-13 rating. Today Jaws would obviously be PG-13.

Just because of the menace, the feeling of it, even more than the blood.
Yes, yes, yes.

The entire interview:
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/02/spielberg_qanda200802

The point of this post is not to suggest that SS has "lost" something. I think Munich shows that he is quite capable of making a compelling adult drama at this stage of his career. But I do think he's wrong about molly-coddling kids. I bet tons of little kids were taken to see A.I., probably understanding it better and enjoying it more than their parents. SS needs to remember that young people don't need to be spoonfed.
 

MolaRam2

New member
So if he thinks the old Indy movies are fine for his younger children? Why did he go so soft with KOTCS? LC looks like Rambo 4 compared to KOTCS.

And how can a 10 or 11 year old not handle Jaws? Obviously many children watched that movie when they were very young, or it wouldn't have been the highest grossing movie ever, when it was released in 1975.
 

No Ticket

New member
I think he softened up the newest Indy just because in the back of his mind he knew that his kids were going to be watching it. When he made the originals, no such hiderence was present.
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
No Ticket said:
I think he softened up the newest Indy just because in the back of his mind he knew that his kids were going to be watching it. When he made the originals, no such hiderence was present.
That's probably true.
But KCS is still violent movie - the fist fight between Indy & Dovchenko alone is pretty graphic - and then he gets eaten alive by ants.
 

No Ticket

New member
Peacock's-Eye said:
That's probably true.
But KCS is still violent movie - the fist fight between Indy & Dovchenko alone is pretty graphic - and then he gets eaten alive by ants.

I think it's no secret that young men are the ones who come up with the really outlandish crazy stuff. Young Indy laughed when he stuck a pole through a motorcycle wheel and killed/hurt the Nazi. Old Indy just stares at Mutt for laughing at the statue thing.

Young Spielberg has tons of cool ideas/Old Spielberg is thinking of his grandkids and disapproves of the "weight" some of those things might have on children.
 

agentsands77

New member
Peacock's-Eye said:
But KCS is still violent movie - the fist fight between Indy & Dovchenko alone is pretty graphic - and then he gets eaten alive by ants.
Eh... the fist-fight with Indy/Dovchenko isn't that graphic, if you ask me. Certainly not by today's standards, and not even by the standards of the OT. And while ant-death has its creepy factor, and is certainly the single most violent moment of the film, it's also so overtly cartoonish that it's a bit softened.
 

No Ticket

New member
agentsands77 said:
Eh... the fist-fight with Indy/Dovchenko isn't that graphic, if you ask me. Certainly not by today's standards, and not even by the standards of the OT. And while ant-death has its creepy factor, and is certainly the single most violent moment of the film, it's also so overtly cartoonish that it's a bit softened.

Yeah it's "violent" but not as violent as having someone chopped into pieces off screen and seeing their blood spatter onto glass violent.

That's cool because you know that could happen. The ants is not because you know a swarm of ants isn't going to travel into his mouth/eyes and carrying him away to an ant hill. :p

Or as cool as the guy getting flattened by a rock crushing machine. ... it is cooler than just seeing a guy fall off a cliff in a tank though. (but the cartoony-ness kills it).
 

Peacock's-Eye

New member
I'm not saying I miss the old style. The violence wasn't what made those movies 'cool'. Indy is. And Indy is still himself in KSC as far as I'm concerned.

I'm more saddened that SS thinks young people are too slow to follow a film as simple as Close Encounters - that's sad. I hope his take on Tin-Tin is more old school - that's a wonderful comic. I'd hate to see it neutered.
 

agentsands77

New member
Peacock's-Eye said:
I'm not saying I miss the old style. The violence wasn't what made those movies 'cool'.
Certainly not the single thing. But the violence did contribute something to the overall make-up of the series.
 

Agent Z

Active member
Peacock's-Eye said:
That's probably true.
But KCS is still violent movie - the fist fight between Indy & Dovchenko alone is pretty graphic - and then he gets eaten alive by ants.

I think seeing the Commies getting completely torched by the igniting rocket sled earned this puppy its PG-13.
 

MolaRam2

New member
Agent Z said:
I think seeing the Commies getting completely torched by the igniting rocket sled earned this puppy its PG-13.

And we see that for what, 2 seconds. The camera didn't even focus on the burning people. Plus the ants were more funny than scary because of how fake they looked.
 

Sam Falco

New member
I think there was a lot more violence in the movie originally that was cut out, we already know for a fact that the battle in the graveyard was chopped down severely, I mean, there's pics of Indy fighting the guards in the cemetary with the whip. What happened there? So perhaps when the DVD comes out we'll get some of that back?

I think another thing is, Indy isnt as keen on killing people as he used to be, back in the day he didnt care, because he was young and impulsive, but in his old age, he takes time to consider things and is more interested in just getting the task done rather than wiping out people in his way. A younger Indy may have just shot the cemetary guard, wheras aged Indy didnt want to kill him, especially since he'd just killed his buddy a moment before.
 

Quickening

New member
Sam Falco said:
I think another thing is, Indy isnt as keen on killing people as he used to be, back in the day he didnt care, because he was young and impulsive, but in his old age, he takes time to consider things and is more interested in just getting the task done rather than wiping out people in his way. A younger Indy may have just shot the cemetary guard, wheras aged Indy didnt want to kill him, especially since he'd just killed his buddy a moment before.

A lot of people have said the whole "Indy doesn't kill as much as he used to" thing on this forum but it's pure fan speculation. And he did blow a dart into the back of someones throat when he could have easily just kicked him over or something. That bit seemed like something Rambo would do.
I think it's a shame that Spielberg is willing to throw away an element of the Indiana Jones films, the fourth of which he was supposedly making "for the fans", in order to appeal to the kiddies.
 

Darth Vile

New member
Spielberg is pitching this movie to his own sensibilities. He may be off with his pitch, but it's definitely about his own moral code i.e. what type of movie he can comfortably watch with his kids. The reality is that where Spielberg probably used to watch movies with his mates, he almost certianly now watches movies with his family. Things evolve.

It seem that within the Spielberg household the kids are not subject to the same amount of adult movie watching that the majority of society are e.g. 12 years olds watching a 15 certificate etc. etc.

Also, I think it’s a fair comment to state that younger movie makers are perhaps more willing to push the boundaries of sex and violence in mainstream cinema. It’s an unfortunate reality that the older one gets, the more conservative one becomes. Spielberg and Lucas are no exception…
 

The Man

Well-known member
Spielberg also chose to shoot as much of the film as locally as he could, to be 'close' to his family. Cue the the most blatantly shoddy soundstage work in the history of Indiana Jones (the quicksand set, certain temple interiors). Gee, nothing like an artist compromising himself, eh?:rolleyes:

Oh, Elstree, where art thou?

Guys, you can only dig so deep for gold. Give it up.
 

Quickening

New member
The Man said:
Spielberg also chose to shoot as much of the film as locally as he could, to be 'close' to his family. Cue the the most blatantly shoddy soundstage work in the history of Indiana Jones (the quicksand set, certain temple interiors). Gee, nothing like an artist compromising himself, eh?:rolleyes:

Oh yeah I completely forgot about that. I remember when I first head that I thought to myself, "what's the point then?". If there were things preventing the makers putting 100% into the project, they shouldn't have done it.
 

Shark_Blade

New member
Oh, Spielberg has gone soft and loose his touch. Let someone else directs Indy I say, like Peter Jackson. Maybe then we'll get pure, adrenaline pumping feel good action movie again.
 

Agent Z

Active member
The Man said:
Spielberg also chose to shoot as much of the film as locally as he could, to be 'close' to his family. Cue the the most blatantly shoddy soundstage work in the history of Indiana Jones (the quicksand set, certain temple interiors). Gee, nothing like an artist compromising himself, eh?:rolleyes:

I don't know....and I am sincerely asking this, but did that many of the locations feel lacking in appearance to you guys?

I thought the tomb/gravesite interiors looked great...especially the throne room at the end. I don't understand how you can improve upon temple interiors by constructing them somewhere else further away?

The quick...er...drysand pit...I mean, what, would finding a real drysand pit look any different? I honestly am not sure I would have been able to tell....or that I would have cared anyway. I enjoyed the scene for the characters and their reactions, not the setting or the ridiculous premise. I never once thought "Damn, that just doesn't look like the drysand pits I've seen while growing up in Ohio!"

Area 51. People complained about it being all soundstagey and "fake", but that was the point: capturing that old 50's sci-fi pulp feel. I loved that scene.

I guess the one area that I didn't care for was the cliffside vehicle scene, but I think that was a poor concept to begin with and that they kinda painted themselves into a corner with that one. Same for Mutt caught in the vines with the Commie-hating greaser monkeys. :p
 
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Quickening

New member
Agent Z said:
I don't know....and I am sincerely asking this, but did that many of the locations feel lacking in appearance to you guys?

I thought the tomb/gravesite interiors looked great...especially the throne room at the end. I don't understand how you can improve upon temple interiors by constructing them somewhere else further away?

The quick...er...drysand pit...I mean, what, would finding a real drysand pit look any different? I honestly am not sure I would have been able to tell....or that I would have cared anyway. I enjoyed the scene for the characters and their reactions, not the setting or the ridiculous premise. I never once thought "Damn, that just doesn't look like the drysand pits I've seen while growing up in Ohio!"

Area 51. People complained about it being all soundstagey and "fake", but that was the point: capturing that old 50's sci-fi pulp feel. I loved that scene.

I guess the one area that I didn't care for was the cliffside vehicle scene, but I think that was a poor concept to begin with and that they kinda painted themselves into a corner with that one. Same for Mutt caught in the vines with the Commie-hating greaser monkeys. :p

I don't know but somehow the film felt confined. The only open area was the finale where Indy and companions are watching the city be destroyed. That's epic.
I never personally had a problem with the Area 51 bit.
 
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